Should I Be Ashamed as a TOS fan to like the Rebooted Movies?

[Terok Nor]

It's literally two movies and a couple of YA novels. There isn't much to like or dislike other than that. Ergo...


So you like about half of it.

I should clarify, it's a good movie. Not a particularly good Star Trek movie but a good movie nonetheless. I don't like how the JJVerse is being done but I can be objective enough to enjoy something on its own merits. It was a good blockbuster movie but not on par with the best of Star Trek. Into Darkness should be burned at the stake

 

[BillJ]

Earth is peaceful. The Federation is peaceful.

But there are a bunch of aggressive empires, dominions and whatnot out there beyond the frontier. It would be naive for our heroes to assume that the whole universe is peaceful, and be unprepared to deal with it on its terms.

Whenever I hear about "Gene's Vision", my mind immediately goes to this dialogue from "Encounter at Farpoint"...

Q: Oh, better. And later, on finally reaching deep space, humans of course found enemies to fight out there too. And to broaden those struggles you again found allies for still more murdering. The same old story, all over again.

Humans even in the 24th century were really no better than they are now. Even though they preach that they are...

 

[The Wormhole]

That defies Roddenberry's Vision (a peaceful and utopian universe).

In TOS, Roddenberry's Vision included Starfleet having the authority to neutralize all life on a planet inhabited by sentient life. In fact, there was a Starfleet General Order authorizing a Starfleet captain to carry this out. That's what qualifies as "peaceful and utopian?"

Perhaps you missed the sarcasm implied by @The Wormhole's post.

It wouldn't be the first time someone has.

The music is bad

To be honest, it kinda is.

 

[fireproof78]

In TOS, Roddenberry's Vision included Starfleet having the authority to neutralize all life on a planet inhabited by sentient life. In fact, there was a Starfleet General Order authorizing a Starfleet captain to carry this out. That's what qualifies as "peaceful and utopian?"

It wouldn't be the first time someone has.

I think I might need to make that my signature, just to see how many complaints I can garner. Comparing Abrams to Hitler could never end badly, could it?

To be honest, it kinda is.

I don't like the soundtrack as a whole, but I like the new theme, as well as the TOS revamping. I guess the thing for me is that it is just ok-I don't really notice it for the most part, and it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the film. When it's on, great. But, I guess I wouldn't describe as "bad" so much as forgettable..

 

[HIjol]

Must have missed this Thread for a while, but my Two Credits (of whatever currency they use, or not, in the 24th!)

As an "Originally Aired Viewer" of the Original Series, I was nervous about a reboot, but never negative towards it, and , as it turned out, I like it well enough.

Especially for one who finds "change" in his pleasures and passions a bit difficult, some times.

 

[Greg Cox]

I don't like the soundtrack as a whole, but I like the new theme, as well as the TOS revamping. I guess the thing for me is that it is just ok-I don't really notice it for the most part, and it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the film. When it's on, great. But, I guess I wouldn't describe as "bad" so much as forgettable..

I find the new soundtrack makes good writing music. Just the other days, I was revising a TOS manuscript while listening to the 2009 soundtrack, without any cognitive dissonance whatsoever.

 

[The Wormhole]

I think I might need to make that my signature, just to see how many complaints I can garner. Comparing Abrams to Hitler could never end badly, could it?

Wouldn't it be funny if you got more Likes than complaints?

I don't like the soundtrack as a whole, but I like the new theme, as well as the TOS revamping. I guess the thing for me is that it is just ok-I don't really notice it for the most part, and it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the film. When it's on, great. But, I guess I wouldn't describe as "bad" so much as forgettable..

Well, truth is the theme is kind of catchy, the problem is it just overshadows the movies to the point it just feels like you got the same tune blaring on a loop for two hours. To make matters worse, the theme literally infects your brain. A few weeks ago, I had a free day with nothing going on so I sat down and watched both Abrams movies, mostly as prep work for Beyond. After watching both movies on the same day, I found it impossible to get the theme out of my head for the next three or four days afterwards.

I also take issue with having Alexander Courage's TOS theme at the end of the movies. These movies have their own theme which has its own sound, and Courage's TOS theme does not match that at all.

 

[fireproof78]

Wouldn't it be funny if you got more Likes than complaints?

Well, truth is the theme is kind of catchy, the problem is it just overshadows the movies to the point it just feels like you got the same tune blaring on a loop for two hours. To make matters worse, the theme literally infects your brain. A few weeks ago, I had a free day with nothing going on so I sat down and watched both Abrams movies, mostly as prep work for Beyond. After watching both movies on the same day, I found it impossible to get the theme out of my head for the next three or four days afterwards.

I also take issue with having Alexander Courage's TOS theme at the end of the movies. These movies have their own theme which has its own sound, and Courage's TOS theme does not match that at all.

To each their own. I found the Main Theme and Courage's Theme to be quite enjoyable. I do agree that the thee is catchy but I like it for that reason

 

[mredom]

That is correct. I personally do not like the Abrams movies.



Star Trek 2/The Wrath of Khan was thrilling.
Maybe you should be ashamed. You choose.
I think the philosophy of Star Trek is more important than the excitment. Just watch TNG: The Measure of a Man.
What I like about TOS is Kirk is in a bad position, worse tactically, and he and his crew must use their intelligence to win.
What I don't like about the 2009 reboot is Kirk just goes in and shoots everybody. That defies Roddenberry's Vision (a peaceful and utopian universe).

@PhaserLightShow

Because lord knows, James T. Kirk never killed anyone, or anything

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

That is correct. I personally do not like the Abrams movies.



Star Trek 2/The Wrath of Khan was thrilling.
Maybe you should be ashamed. You choose.
I think the philosophy of Star Trek is more important than the excitment. Just watch TNG: The Measure of a Man.
What I like about TOS is Kirk is in a bad position, worse tactically, and he and his crew must use their intelligence to win.
What I don't like about the 2009 reboot is Kirk just goes in and shoots everybody. That defies Roddenberry's Vision (a peaceful and utopian universe).

@PhaserLightShow

I am not saying that ST:II TWOK wasn't a great movie, but it wasn't as thrilling as Into Darkness or the 2009 reboot of ST:XI. It did not live up to my expectations of the show and the hype behind the movie, but it was good. Ricardo was a great actor, and no one will ever be able to replace him, but I am not sure that he would fit in today's films. It would be a little corny (gee, I know that I will get into trouble for saying that!) That British guy was really creepy in how he acted and talked, but it wasn't the Khan I was used to and he was a little short to be genetically engineered to be superior.

 

[Kor]

That British guy was really creepy in how he acted and talked, but it wasn't the Khan I was used to and he was a little short to be genetically engineered to be superior.

Benedict Cumberbatch is the same height that Ricardo Montalban was: 6'0" (1.83 m).

Kor

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

I have a pet theory, based solely on anecdotal evidence, that it's actually the TNG generation that is more likely to have issues with the new movies, as opposed to us old-school TOS fans . . ..

Lol

tos fan here and I love the reboot movies. It's fun to have another trek to like, for me they are not mutually exclusive and I see them as two separate things that share the same spirit. (I like the reboot precisely because it's not totally like tos)

from what I could notice in years in this fandom, I think most of pre-existing trek fans like the reboot. Those who are the hardest on it tend to be people who don't like ANY of the 'non-tos' trek (or didn't like it originally, see TNG). We have our own version of the star wars fans who don't like the prequel movies and hate on the fans who don't dislike them saying they are not 'real fans'. I guess every fandom has fans like that and they tend to pretend they are speaking on the behalf of the whole fandom so as a result, you might have people who aren't in the fandom who now have this idea that trek fans hate these movies.
For the most part, I often find myself confused/puzzled by some of the anti-reboot arguments I read made by self-professed trek fans online (mostly in comments section of articles about these movies) because, well, from my perspective they claim things about 'canon' that aren't exactly true for tos either and make me question if they had watched the series (and also if they have any idea it was made in the 60s and how outdated it might be nowadays if they kept everything exactly the same), or they just repeat an urban legend, so to speak.

Of course I don't put all the people who dislike these movies in the same box. There are reasonable people who have valid criticism, and then there is personal taste at play: no one is lucky to the extent their movie can be liked by everyone.
But then again, those who don't like these movies have nothing really changed for them and nothing really to lose. You can still like the old thing and no one deleted it. In a way, it's a bit worse for those who happen to like these movies because there is always a possibility to get disappointed by a sequel that doesn't live up your expectations from the other movies.

Yes, I agree with everything said, especially the bold and italicized parts that I highlighted. Some people will never like anything else. A lot of TOS fans are like that, I believe, or at least, I got that from most of the fans (not necessarily just TOS fans) that they didn't like the new ones. My uncle, who saw the ST:XI and the first 35 or so minutes of Into Darkness, along with the original show when it aired, said that he still liked the old crew better. I can't say that 100% blame him, but like what was said before, these actors have done a wonderful job, if not the best job they could have with the mannerisms from the late 1960's show. He is more a fan of the episodes where they go back in time or revisit something from the past, like the 1920's mobsters episode, being a History teacher.

I think nobody noticed this stuff because it's really current events from a decade and a half ago, so they are just used to such themes by now.



That's funny. Most of the anti-NuTrek arguments I've seen come from people who like TNG and not TOS!



Exactly.

Kor

I never noticed that. I'll have to check it out.

Fans that tell other potential fans are not true fans because they simply got into the series from the NuTrek films or just enjoy and like, perhaps love the NuTrek films are not ones to judge.

That's I guess the people that I am running into who I asked their opinion on the movies.

Star Trek is Star Trek.
What's there to be ashamed about?
All this Prime/Abrams bullcrap is unnecessary IMHO!

Yes, we shouldn't take it 100% seriously!

Your premise is false. TOS wasn't philosophical. It didn't set out to teach us anything. Really. That's a myth. As I've said before, it was no more "philosophical" than Gunsmoke. TOS is just a bunch of good stories (and a few stinkers) that tended to address universal themes from the sci-fi setting, not westerns, hospitals, or police stations.

And as others have posted, Abrams' movies dealt with real issues, and in some ways, more forthrightly and maturely than TOS did sometimes. (I'm looking at you, Bele and Lokai.)

To the extent they are compatible, it's because the characters survived more or less intact after fifty years. They still are interesting, they still entertain, and we still care about them. To be fair, they're not compatible to the extent that a 1960s TV series will never stand up in production values and content to a big screen movie in the 21st century. But it's all about the characters, that's the glue. That's the common denominator.

Really? You didn't hear the commentary from Kirk, Spock and McCoy on their views about comparing other societies to theirs?

Must have missed this Thread for a while, but my Two Credits (of whatever currency they use, or not, in the 24th!)

As an "Originally Aired Viewer" of the Original Series, I was nervous about a reboot, but never negative towards it, and , as it turned out, I like it well enough.

Especially for one who finds "change" in his pleasures and passions a bit difficult, some times.

Awesome!!!

Benedict Cumberbatch is the same height that Ricardo Montalban was: 6'0" (1.83 m).

Kor

Whoa really? I have to check that out!!!!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It seems like those two things aren't compatible.

It's compatible if you say it is.

No one should be ashamed to like, or not like, any series or film. So what if TOS and the Abramsverse are so different? If you like them, then go right ahead. No one has the right to judge you.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I find the new soundtrack makes good writing music. Just the other days, I was revising a TOS manuscript while listening to the 2009 soundtrack, without any cognitive dissonance whatsoever.

Just for giggles, I spliced together the scene of the Vengeance intercepting the Enterprise with "Violent shakes" from the Doomsday Machine suite. It fits just about PERFECTLY.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's compatible if you say it is.

No one should be ashamed to like, or not like, any series or film. So what if TOS and the Abramsverse are so different? If you like them, then go right ahead. No one has the right to judge you.

Exactly. They're not supposed to be the same and we don't have to be "ashamed" of liking both if we're so inclined. Enjoying a new version of TREK doesn't mean you're cheating on the old version.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Exactly. They're not supposed to be the same and we don't have to be "ashamed" of liking both if we're so inclined. Enjoying a new version of TREK doesn't mean you're cheating on the old version.

But you never forget your first Trek.

 

[Kor]

You never love another Trek in quite the same way.

Kor

 

[Goji]

Eh, Voyager was my first Trek, now it's my least favorite of the bunch. But I was 8 at the time, and watched a bunch of TOS, TNG and DS9 not that long after.

 

[Greg Cox]

But you never forget your first Trek.

We'll always have Planet M-113 . . . .

 

[Kor]

I like the big brassiness of the soundtrack. It reminds me of older movies.

As far as Courage's theme not matching the rest of the music... Well, it never really matched the TOS episode scores, either.

Kor