*Potential Spoilers* What will the Alternate Enterprise-A look like

[Gonzo]

Which might actually be an incentive for more ships of Vengeance's design, huge ships with only a handful for crew, and if necessary can be operated by only one person.

I would be fine with this, I don't think it would be one person but it could easily be a smaller core crew complements (say 100) with then added crew for whatever specialised function the ship is meant to perform.

The bigger the ships the more functions they can fulfill, it was always my one issue with the original enterprise in the 60's show even though it was long before my time, I felt the ship was too small to be able to operate autonomously for 5 years at a time. Especially as they did not have replicators then. Of course the main limit on the design was the quality of the special effects available in the 60's and when Star Trek was first released the makers had no idea the cultural icon it would one day become.

I don't think the other ship classes will disappear but the Dreadnought class ships would be ideal fleet flagships to rebuild starfleet moving forward.

With all that has happened and been lost in the first two films it seems reasonable that a response must be made, that means tougher ships and a new focus on improved defensive and offensive systems. It's all very well having ships meant for exploration but at what cost when the situation gets serious.

Just look at the Defiant class as an example of what can be achieved when a new enemy is encountered that has no interest in diplomacy or peace, it forces a shift in thinking and design.

Evolution in action.

 

[Gonzo]

Kirk's ship in some of the movies is of the Heavy Cruiser class, but that doesn't imply the existence of USS Heavy Cruiser...

OTOH, there probably does exist a whole class of those dreadnoughts, as it's quite unlikely Marcus would have wanted to go to war with just one such vessel (especially with the "newest flagship" deliberately sacrificed). And it was up to Marcus to decide when to start the war. Secret or not, those other war-ready vessels wouldn't be dismantled now that Marcus basically got his war, or at least got his angry Klingons.

Starfleet might well be tempted to paint "USS Enterprise II, NCC-1701.1" or something like that on one of the dreadnoughts if Kirk's ship can't be salvaged after the most recent incident. Then again, if Starfleet really is gearing up for war, there shouldn't be a shortage of ships to be renamed, including all-new designs.

Timo Saloniemi

I think your first paragraph is confusing a ship type (Heavy Cruiser) with a ship class (Constitution/Dreadnought/Galaxy) etc.

Over the years the Constitution class has been classified as a Heavy Cruiser and a Cruiser as larger newer ships have been designed and become active.

It happened when the Excelsior and then Ambassador class ships were commissioned, all of the Constitution and Miranda class ships were then demoted to be just cruisers.

 

[Timo]

I think your first paragraph is confusing a ship type (Heavy Cruiser) with a ship class (Constitution/Dreadnought/Galaxy) etc.

What makes you think Khan would do any differently?

"Class" is a perfectly valid way of referring to the type, or "mission class", of a ship. It's that today, and it's that in Star Trek as well ("Forrr a moment, I thought I saw a Scout Class wessel").

Over the years the Constitution class has been classified as a Heavy Cruiser and a Cruiser as larger newer ships have been designed and become active.

Not on screen, though. The ship always was Heavy Cruiser if a mission class was mentioned, except in Klingon parlance where she was a Battle Cruiser instead.

It happened when the Excelsior and then Ambassador class ships were commissioned, all of the Constitution and Miranda class ships were then demoted to be just cruisers.

We have no onscreen idea what mission class the Miranda represents, at any Trek time period. The Constitution got no mission class references beyond ST3:TSfS. At best, we can argue that the Constellation class, larger than Constitution and probably much heavier due to the extra warp coils, is called a mere (Star) Cruiser without the "Heavy" definer - but is that really a demotion? Lacking a reference point, we can't tell.

FWIW, no demotions of starship types are actually documented onscreen. But the definition of Heavy Cruiser certainly drifts upward, as the huge Ambassador indeed represents that class in the 2360s!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gonzo]

What makes you think Khan would do any differently?

"Class" is a perfectly valid way of referring to the type, or "mission class", of a ship. It's that today, and it's that in Star Trek as well ("Forrr a moment, I thought I saw a Scout Class wessel").



Not on screen, though. The ship always was Heavy Cruiser if a mission class was mentioned, except in Klingon parlance where she was a Battle Cruiser instead.



We have no onscreen idea what mission class the Miranda represents, at any Trek time period. The Constitution got no mission class references beyond ST3:TSfS. At best, we can argue that the Constellation class, larger than Constitution and probably much heavier due to the extra warp coils, is called a mere (Star) Cruiser without the "Heavy" definer - but is that really a demotion? Lacking a reference point, we can't tell.

FWIW, no demotions of starship types are actually documented onscreen. But the definition of Heavy Cruiser certainly drifts upward, as the huge Ambassador indeed represents that class in the 2360s!

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah my post is based on the Fact Files and memory alpha, the Miranda class which included the USS Reliant was a Heavy Cruiser type the same as the Constitution class, until they were demoted anyway.

SInce the 90's various Star Trek series here have been far more types of ships shown, like Heavy Escorts (Defiant class) and Light Cruisers (Intrepid and Saber class).

The ship classes are set in stone but the ship types are not, hence why they can change as time passes.

Edit: Now I think about it perhaps it is best to use the term ship role rather than type, as that is what is really changing when ships are reclassified from Heavy Cruiser to Cruiser.

 

[shapeshifter]

I doubt it will happen, but there's one design they could pull from the mothballs ...

I am hoping for a cameo of this class, at least. Because 50th Anniversary and stuff. A model of it, a photograph - even a mention!

 

[Kemaiku]

"Ah man, you remember the first ugly ass design for this class?"

"Yeah, pity all the prototypes blew up unexpectidly."

 

[Timo]

SInce the 90's various Star Trek series here have been far more types of ships shown, like Heavy Escorts (Defiant class) and Light Cruisers (Intrepid and Saber class).

...Of course, none of those "ship roles" is actually agreed upon: the Defiant on screen is merely Escort, but fans also use Battleship (glimpsed briefly in VOY "The Voyager Conspiracy"), and role-playing games have their own ideas. And the Intrepid is all over the charts, from Scout to Light Explorer; the Saber is sometimes considered a Corvette.

Significantly, there's no evidence of any of these designations ever changing as such. The only time I know anybody other than the rank-and-file fans in the audience would have postulated a "demotion" is when Last Unicorn Games did their Spacedock manual, where the Ambassador class gets demoted from Explorer to Heavy Cruiser - but LUG did that after losing their license to do anything we could call even semi-official.

OTOH, Dreadnought is very much a canonical type of ship in Starfleet, mentioned in ST:TMP background dialogue. The original timeline had one USS Entente of that type; the altered timeline appears to have one USS Vengeance. We don't know whether either of those would have been the class ship for the respective classes (except in backstage terms where the Entente was from a Dreadnought class inaugurated by one USS Federation). We further don't know whether the altered Starfleet already had other Dreadnought classes in operation before the one of which the Vengeance is/was part. Perhaps one of the older ships seen in the recent movies is a Dreadnought?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

"Ah man, you remember the first ugly ass design for this class?"

"Yeah, pity all the prototypes blew up unexpectidly."

 

[ancient]

"Ah man, you remember the first ugly ass design for this class?"

"Yeah, pity all the prototypes blew up unexpectidly."

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet out

 

[Kemaiku]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet out

Nope.

 

[ancient]

Nope.

*shakes fist*

 

[Kemaiku]

*shakes fist*

You'll do yourself a tendon injury...

 

[Richard Baker]

The bigger the ships the more functions they can fulfill, it was always my one issue with the original enterprise in the 60's show even though it was long before my time, I felt the ship was too small to be able to operate autonomously for 5 years at a time. Especially as they did not have replicators then.

I don't think the TOS Enterprise was ever described as being on an autonomously five year mission, just a five year mission. They cruised all over the Federation in addition to exploring, getting resupplied and dropping off supplies to others as well.

I do think it is small for a scientific exploration vessel though. With a crew of around 400, a good part of which are serving as ship's support (Engineering, Medical...) you do not have a lot of specialists or room for extensive equipment. They can find interesting stuff but it would take a followup ship to do any real studies.

 

[137th Gebirg]

"Ah man, you remember the first ugly ass design for this class?"

"Yeah, pity all the prototypes blew up unexpectidly."

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't think the TOS Enterprise was ever described as being on an autonomously five year mission, just a five year mission. They cruised all over the Federation in addition to exploring, getting resupplied and dropping off supplies to others as well.

Also, there's the fact there were crew transfers throughout TOS as well. In I, Mudd it's stated Norman had transferred aboard the Enterprise a few weeks earlier. Also, the fact Chekov didn't recognize Harry Mudd would indicate he was not on board the Enterprise during Mudd's Women.

So, yeah the Enterprise would have been dropping off at starbases and getting resupplied frequently throughout those five years. It's just after five years they'd be back at Earth for a refit.

I do think it is small for a scientific exploration vessel though. With a crew of around 400, a good part of which are serving as ship's support (Engineering, Medical...) you do not have a lot of specialists or room for extensive equipment. They can find interesting stuff but it would take a followup ship to do any real studies.

Which is how I imagine Starfleet works, the capital ships (Constitutions in TOS) get the first crack at a planet, chart it, plant the flag if it's uninhabited, make friends with the natives if there are any, than they go off to their next adventure and it's the duty of a smaller, specialized ship to go there and do the long-term stuff.

 

[Richard Baker]

There have been several TNG episodes where the Enterprise has the adventure and moves on while Picard notes in his log that a scientific team will be dispatched to examine things further (Relics, Masks..)

 

[WarpFactorZ]

There have been several TNG episodes where the Enterprise has the adventure and moves on while Picard notes in his log that a scientific team will be dispatched to examine things further (Relics, Masks..)

It's pretty well established that the Enterprise's (and presumably other similar ships') mission is to chart unknowns. Once they are charted, other ships come in to do specialized tasks.

 

[Timo]

It's just after five years they'd be back at Earth for a refit.

Canonically, they went back to Earth (or some other place altogether) to drop off Kirk. That's all we really know: only Kirk personally was ever stated to have conducted a five-year mission, and that's what came to an end in 2270s as per Icheb.

The refit could have come years later, depending on one's interpretation on when exactly ST:TMP took place. And nothing particularly significant missionwise or shipwise need have marked the point where Kirk assumed command and Pike relinquished it, either.

It's pretty well established that the Enterprise's (and presumably other similar ships') mission is to chart unknowns. Once they are charted, other ships come in to do specialized tasks.

Do we have data on the opposite sort of marching order? Lesser ships going in first for some light scouting, getting in trouble, and being rescued (or their ashes collected) by an Enterprise?

It happened a lot to the E-D, but probably only because any Starfleet ship was "lesser" in comparison with her! Did it ever happen to Kirk, though? The ships preceding him into the fire were either explicitly or implicitly established as fellow starships of Enterprise caliber. But there were planets and cultures the UFP already had contact with before Kirk went in and discovered something radically new and important that only a much lesser team could have missed the first time around.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[eyeresist]

The refit could have come years later, depending on one's interpretation on when exactly ST:TMP took place. And nothing particularly significant missionwise or shipwise need have marked the point where Kirk assumed command and Pike relinquished it, either.

Then how did Pike end up in that wheelchair?

*beep* *beep*

 

[Timo]

Sorry?

Do you mean the wheelchair thing should be related to what happens to the Enterprise, in terms of refits or assignments? It wasn't, in either of the timelines where Pike got those wheels.

Timo Saloniemi