The Mirror Universe Does not exist

[The Wormhole]

How would it not, more to the point? The why (or how) matters more then the what.

Fine, let's go back to the animated graphic in the opening credits of Enterprise's MU episodes showing the Earth spinning in the opposite direction. Now let's go back to caveman times. In the two universes, there's a tribe of cavemen who contemplate which direction they need go. They choose the direction in which the sun rises, which in the Prime Universe is east, and this sets off chain of events which eventually leads to the world we know, in the MU they go west, setting off a chain of events which eventually leads to the Terran Empire and leather clad lesbians being a thing.

 

[Ithekro]

Wasn't there another paradox theory that the "Prime Universe" only exists because of interference from itself?

The Mirror Universe, in many senses, would be our universe taken to the extreme.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

Wasn't there another paradox theory that the "Prime Universe" only exists because of interference from itself?

The Mirror Universe, in many senses, would be our universe taken to the extreme.

Or our universe is the Mirror Universe taken to the extreme (the opposite way).

 

[Mytran]

Wasn't there another paradox theory that the "Prime Universe" only exists because of interference from itself?

I don't know how widespread a theory it is, but it's certainly something I've speculated about in various posts over the years. Episodes like COTEOF, Yesteryear, Futures End, Past Tense, and possibly even the movie First Contact all strongly indicate predestination paradoxes in play.
I further conjecture that the Guardian Of Forever is itself a custodian of these paradoxes, created to ensure history unfolds as it must

 

[Drone]

How? How do you explain it?

Ultimately, it all depends on whether you liked Quake or Quisp.

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. Mirror Universe storylines are about all the nefarious goings-on in the evil universe, not about some nonsensical and made-up reason why that universe might be different. I can't imagine a less appealing story, quite frankly.

So in other words, the goings on in a nonsensical and made up evil universe are intrinsically any more significant than a nonsensical and made up reason for how that universe came to be? And "frankly", one is infinitesimally as interesting than the other. Interesting and very logical approach to discerning the inherent value in plot points. But hey, if it suits your tastes and makes sense to you, all to the good, I guess.

The Mirror Universe, in many senses, would be our universe taken to the extreme.

Or our universe is the Mirror Universe taken to the extreme (the opposite way).

Toyboat, toyboat, toyboat, toyboat!!!!

 

[Terok Nor]

What if the Mirror Universe is "our" universe and the Prime Universe is the alternate reality?

 

[PhaserLightShow]

What if the Mirror Universe is "our" universe and the Prime Universe is the alternate reality?

Just as likely as the opposite.

 

[stardream]

If the reverse of the original theory I considered is true then we only exist when someone from the Mirror Universe crosses over so...someone is in here with us who doesn't belong.

 

[The Wormhole]

What if the Mirror Universe is "our" universe and the Prime Universe is the alternate reality?

Again, the fact that Mirror Neil Armstrong planted the flag of the Terran Empire on the moon kind of negates that possibility. Or the fact the two universes have different classical literature. If you want to bring the novels into this, they have developed histories of the Mirror 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[Kor]

It is basically an exercise in futility to try to explain the how and why of of the existence of the mirror universe. It is a storytelling device, plain and simple; a way to explore certain "what if" questions about characters, galactic politics, or whatever, and possibly to comment on our own nature.

Where is the Halkan Prediction of Galactic Revolt supposed to take place?

Probably from an earlier draft of the script. As the episode stands, we just have to accept that this prediction was spoken off-screen at some point.

Kor

 

[Vandervecken]

Okay. The original observation that the mirror universe is incredibly implausible is of course correct (and the reason I have never been able to take the mirror episodes seriously), but the following conclusions are nonsense. The mechanism proposed for the creation of the mirror universe is vague in extreme and doesn't really explain anything. Furthermore, if the mirror universe in DS9 is that same universe created hundred years earlier, all the same criticism the writer had towards the forever existing mirror universe applies to this future of their theorised mirror universe. And then there's the Ent version of MU which somehow existed hundred years before it was created...

Any one particular universe is implausible compared to a range of possible universes. It's no less likely that the Mirror universe is the "prime" universe and the regular Trek universe the mirror U. But eventually you must deal with one.

The Ent version does not have to mean that the Mirror universe has actually existed for hundreds of years (per Phlox's observations), only that it appears to have existed for hundreds of years. If it came into existence at the time of Mirror, Mirror, it could easily have done so with an entire "history" (in fact we'd expect it to).

 

[Ithekro]

Via Mirror Phlox's observation the only thing that seemed consistent in both universes was the writings of Shakespeare.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Probably from an earlier draft of the script. As the episode stands, we just have to accept that this prediction was spoken off-screen at some point.

No, it is in the episode itself. Kirk and Spock discuss it.

 

[Nebusj]

No, it is in the episode itself. Kirk and Spock discuss it.

Right, Kirk talks about the Halkan prediction of inevitable galactic revolt. Where'd he hear about the prediction from? That's the question.

 

[Kor]

No, it is in the episode itself. Kirk and Spock discuss it.

That's not what I meant.

Kirk asks "How long before the Halkan prediction of galactic revolt is realised?" and Spock gives an estimate.

The point is that we have no idea what prediction they are even talking about in the first place, since the Halkans never actually made such a prediction in dialog at all in the episode. So we have to assume that it was said off-screen during the course of events.

Kor

 

[Vandervecken]

Anyone have a guess as to what the Tantalus field is? Couldn't a transporter operating in reverse, or as done for NOMAD, be such a weapon?

I got the feeling that whatever was happening to the people who vanished after being "tantalized," it was supposed to be more than disintegration. That maybe spacetime was being directly destroyed in some way.

Funny that one never resurfaced. We can guess that Mirror Spock used it, but what happened to it?

 

[PhaserLightShow]

Anyone have a guess as to what the Tantalus field is? Couldn't a transporter operating in reverse, or as done for NOMAD, be such a weapon?

I got the feeling that whatever was happening to the people who vanished after being "tantalized," it was supposed to be more than disintegration. That maybe spacetime was being directly destroyed in some way.

Funny that one never resurfaced. We can guess that Mirror Spock used it, but what happened to it?

The tantalus field? No, but I know about the tantalus mask. It operates like a cloaking device.

 

[Terok Nor]

Again, the fact that Mirror Neil Armstrong planted the flag of the Terran Empire on the moon kind of negates that possibility. Or the fact the two universes have different classical literature. If you want to bring the novels into this, they have developed histories of the Mirror 20th and 21st centuries.

I take everything that happened in Enterprise with a large dose of salt, including the credits. But if it was stated somewhere in TOS or DS9 then so be it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I know about the tantalus mask. It operates like a cloaking device.

The what now?

 

[Drone]

Where is the Halkan Prediction of Galactic Revolt supposed to take place?.

Probably from an earlier draft of the script. As the episode stands, we just have to accept that this prediction was spoken off-screen at some point.
Kor

Just as an idle point, doesn't it seem rather unlikely to you, though, that the Halkans would have made such a statement to Prime Kirk? In fact, Tharn specifically says that he is satisfied that the Federation is, at present, as it is being represented. So, if the comment was directed at Prime Kirk, that would suggest that the Halkans seriously considered a radical change in the orientation, philosophy, and ethos of the Federation. For what it's worth, would you agree that it seems much more logical that the phrase would have been made to Mirror Kirk and that his counterpart learned of it by taking a look at the captain's logs? Still that almost has to presuppose that this visit by the Mirror landing party was their second, which seems a mite on the unusual side, that their protocol would see the need for second chances after being refused. However, if it had been their first visit, how would such responses from Tharn, be even known by anyone on the ship, as they never returned to report them?

Perhaps as a given, because of the rampant paranoia Mirror shipboard existence seemed to engender, a landing party's conversation with their next victims was routinely monitored in real time by maintaining open communicator channels. That could provide an explanation that would make sense.

Now that I've wasted your time and attention with such trivialities, feel free to have at me!!!!