The makeup for Original Series Klingons

[STEPhon IT]

There was something about TOS Klingons which spelled Badasses; when they made a threat I knew 90 to 10 chances they will commit to it. TNG Klingons were all full of hot air, make threats and shout and speak gibberish; they're more comic relief than threatening.

 

[Warped9]

I've long thought of the TNG style Klingons as the "comic opera Klingons," but they really started with TSFS.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Personally, the Klingon-Federation alliance never made much sense to be, other than to explain why Worf was on the Enterprise, and to show something changed from TOS to TNG.

I always assumed (but have no way of knowing for sure) that was also partially influenced by the line in "Errand of Mercy":

It is true that in the future, you and the Klingons will become fast friends. You will work together.

Based on the TOS portrayal, it seemed to me that of the two powers, the Romulans would have been more likely to ally themselves with the Federation (after the Romulan-Klingon alliance of TOS fell apart). You had the Vulcan-Romulan common ancestry for one. Second, it seemed that the Romulans at that time had a sense of honor, and literally seemed more like humans, just more passionate.

With the Vulcan/Romulan lifespan, there could have been Romulans living up to the TNG era who were actually around during the Earth/Romulan war. So while it's a historical thing for the humans, the Romulans who actually lived through it might be less likely to want to ally themselves with their old enemy.

However, by TNG it became the Klingons who were the honorable and passionate ones. But even during TNg and DS9 for that matter, it seemed like the KLingons thought of themselves as honorable, but time and again they seemed to fall short of honor. Really, the only honorable ones were Worf, and Martok. The rest seemed to be honorable only when convenient,

Replace the concept of honour with the concept of morality, and I know a lot of humans like this, too.

 

[Kor]

Yes, Klingons pay lip service to certain values, but don't actually do much to uphold them or live by them... just like people in real life.

I thought the Klingon characters in "Heart of Glory" were still menacing. But as TNG went on, the Klingons became a joke.

Here's the thing: The villains in The Search for Spock were originally going to be Romulans, which is why they had Birds-of-Prey and cloaking devices and talked about honor. They were changed to Klingons without any of that being changed, and so suddenly Klingons had a sense of honor.

Klingon honor in TSFS was "a unique point of view." It was the only time in the TOS movies when any Klingon said anything about honor. Kruge told his beloved that she would be "remembered with honor," right before he blasted her out of existence along with the freighter, whose crew had been totally deceived and hopelessly trapped... they never stood a chance in combat.

And I think that fits in with TOS Klingon treachery, actually.

Klingon honor in TNG and onward was presented as something more palatable.

Kor

 

[FormerLurker]

In regards the Vulcan/Romulan hairstyle: I can't speak for the Vulcans at all, but up until Unification, it appeared that the hairstyle was meant to be for the military. They all had that pseudo-widow's peak, after all, a major difference from Spock. With a larger makeup budget, they could get away with saying things like "The Romulan government requires good citizens to appear in a uniform manner", much like the Chinese do today. That may be why regular Romulans in Unification were seen with the hairstyle. My biggest complaint about it was when it showed up on all the Proto-Vulcanoids in Who Watches The Watchers?

 

[TheSubCommander]

I always assumed (but have no way of knowing for sure) that was also partially influenced by the line in "Errand of Mercy":

I forgot, but remember this now. But I wouldn't say they were quite friends by TNG. More like a mutual agreement to end hostilities, than anything. The Klingons still seemed to openly view humans with a certain amount of disgust, or that they were inferior. Not to mention how quickly they were willing to go to war against the Feds in DS9, simply because the Feds wouldn't sanction their invasion of Cardassian territory. And then there's the renegades that always pop up, like the House of Duras, from alliance with the Romulans, to Klingon Civil War, and destroying the Enterprise-D.

Then there is the simple fact that they are an Empire and not a Federation, and their culture is based on blood lust, which is totally incompatible with almost everything the Federation is supposed to stand for. And the Klingons showed that they had changed little from Enterprise to the TNG era. They didn't WANT to change. Other than the Praxis moon exploding, the Klingons had no reason to cooperate with the Federation. It seems that using the example of the E-C falling in battle was more a propaganda campaign, as well as the Battle of Kittomir, to justify an alliance with the Feds (or more properly a cessation of open hostility), than an actual change in Klingon culture. The DS9 Klingon-Federation war demonstrates that.

Like I said; lousy allies.

With the Vulcan/Romulan lifespan, there could have been Romulans living up to the TNG era who were actually around during the Earth/Romulan war. So while it's a historical thing for the humans, the Romulans who actually lived through it might be less likely to want to ally themselves with their old enemy.

That is a plausible explanation, but it also could apply to the Klingons, too. While not quite as long-lived as Vulcans and Romulans, they are pretty close. Kor, Koloth, and Kang come to mind as having lived longer than a century and a half.

Replace the concept of honour with the concept of morality, and I know a lot of humans like this, too.

True, but with Klingons, it seems truly honorable Klingons are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Christopher]

Personally, the Klingon-Federation alliance never made much sense to be, other than to explain why Worf was on the Enterprise, and to show something changed from TOS to TNG.

Well, "Heart of Glory" suggested that the Klingons had largely given up their ways of conquest and aggression, that only renegades still wanted to live by the old ways. In fact, the Klingon ship that came to take the renegades away had a Federation logo on the bridge wall alongside the Klingon logo, suggesting an actual political union rather than just an alliance. Later on, though, the Klingons were increasingly portrayed as being just as warlike as they'd ever been, which was harder to reconcile with the idea of an alliance.

 

[Kor]

In the second season, when some things were still kind of murky, TNG outright said "the Klingons joined the Federation." But then that idea was forgotten/retconned/whatever.

Kor

 

[Doug Otte]

I agree w/ all the discrepancies in the series noted here. During TNG, the political climate in the Klingon Empire shifted as there was jockeying for the leadership positions.
Although at the start of TNG, it appeared that more progressive leadership led to the Alliance, later there were more conservative "traditionalist" factions that came to the leadership, and caused more friction w/ the Federation.
DS9 took it even further when another war was started.

 

[Christopher]

Although at the start of TNG, it appeared that more progressive leadership led to the Alliance, later there were more conservative "traditionalist" factions that came to the leadership, and caused more friction w/ the Federation.
DS9 took it even further when another war was started.

That's a good point. K'mpec was probably a much more moderate chancellor than Gowron -- which may be why he was assassinated. Gowron may have been a better choice than Duras, but only in the sense of being the lesser of two evils. (Republican primary voters can no doubt sympathize.)

 

[Chattaan]

I much prefer the Old School Klingons/Romulans. And I was not bothered by it as much when they augmented the look of the Klingons in the feature films. Yet by the run of TNG, they had their own set of standards. The cunning and ruthless Klingons became honor, on the one hand

 

[Chattaan]

I prefer the old school Klingons and Romulans. And I was not bothered by it as much when they augmented the looked of the Klingons for the feature films. But TNG had their own standards.

 

[Elder Knight]

....
Not to mention the time required to remove the makeup after filming, come to think of it. So that'd be two sessions per day, effectively.

Nahh -- the removal must have been easier.

"Assistant, please remove Mister Nimoy's makeup."
"Ow! OW!"
"Done!"

 

[The Old Mixer]

Nahh -- the removal must have been easier.

"Assistant, please remove Mister Nimoy's makeup."
"Ow! OW!"
"Done!"

"Where's my ears? I want my ears!"

 

[Elder Knight]

Friends, Romans ... Countrymen ...

 

[The Old Mixer]

...and you'll sing me a song?

 

[topcat]

why the big ruckus over the various looks and skin tones of the Klingons, no one has ever raised an eyebrow over the various shades of Vulcans through out star trek viewing.

 

[STEPhon IT]

why the big ruckus over the various looks and skin tones of the Klingons, no one has ever raised an eyebrow over the various shades of Vulcans through out star trek viewing.

Give us time.

 

[johnnybear]

In regards the Vulcan/Romulan hairstyle: I can't speak for the Vulcans at all, but up until Unification, it appeared that the hairstyle was meant to be for the military. They all had that pseudo-widow's peak, after all, a major difference from Spock. With a larger makeup budget, they could get away with saying things like "The Romulan government requires good citizens to appear in a uniform manner", much like the Chinese do today. That may be why regular Romulans in Unification were seen with the hairstyle. My biggest complaint about it was when it showed up on all the Proto-Vulcanoids in Who Watches The Watchers?

I think it was supposed to be the standard look for the Vulcanoid humanoid as such but I doubt they'd have dared to even try to apply it to either Mark Lenard or Leonard Nimoy! Think of the outrage from the fans and maybe even Leonard himself!!!
JB

 

[Christopher]

why the big ruckus over the various looks and skin tones of the Klingons, no one has ever raised an eyebrow over the various shades of Vulcans through out star trek viewing.

Ohh, I'm sure there were plenty of idiots who complained about Tim Russ being cast as a Vulcan. Some groups of morons always get up in arms whenever a black person gets a role where they didn't expect one, like a Vulcan or Heimdall or Jimmy Olsen (or the President of the United States...) -- even when it's a character who's explicitly black to begin with, like Rue in The Hunger Games.