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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

And nobody is concerned that National City now has a crashed nuclear missile in its harbor?
At the very least, the booster is leaking toxic chemicals. At worst, the impact may have cracked open a MIRV.

Oh, and... why was there a window in the missile control room looking out into the blazing rocket exhaust?! :vulcan:
 
After it crashed, Supergirl should have frozen a massive chunk of sea water around the missile and then taken it into space for disposal.

If Superman and Supergirl were real, they would both be faithlessly & secretly disarming and sabotaging the arsenals of the all the Earth's super powers, or they are morons.
 
If Superman and Supergirl were real, they would both be faithlessly & secretly disarming and sabotaging the arsenals of the all the Earth's super powers, or they are morons.

They probably already did.
She was just faking effort to disarm it so that the silly humans wouldn't get suspicious.

Back at the DEO she was all like: "Oh, guys, these bombs here, they're like sooooo difficult to stop, didn't you see me like totally struggling with it, I definitely never saw anything like it before, for reals."
 
Missing the point. It's not shitty writing because it's physically impossible. It's shitty writing because it made Supergirl look stupid and weak while being completely devoid of tension or excitement, and it did so while totally mangling it's own internal logic. (ie, Indigo wants an apocalypse, yet only launches one missile; Supergirl wants to protect people, yet tries to save National City by just sending the missile in a different direction so it can kill other people, etc.)

Have you seen maps of how the US population is distributed, like this one? National City is a surrogate for Los Angeles, and there really isn't a lot of population in the American Southwest outside the big cities and their surroundings. If she had succeeded in diverting it from the city, it would've probably gone off in the vast, empty stretches of desert between the cities. You know, like the deserts where a lot of nuclear tests were conducted for decades. (It really boggles the mind to see how empty the western half of the continental US is aside from the West Coast.)

Besides, the fact that Supergirl didn't know how to deal with a missile on her own was part of the point. Part of making smart decisions is being aware of your limitations and asking other smart people to help you. Kara was mad at Hank and the DEO and trying to handle the situation on her own, but it was too much for her, so she realized she needed help after all. Making a mistake is not stupid and weak. What would've been stupid and weak was if she'd refused to admit her mistake and remained stubbornly on the same path until disaster happened. Asking for help and fixing her mistake was smart and strong.


Also, I never understand this complaint that people shouldn't worry about believability in a superhero story, just because other superhero stories have gone off the deep end. Yes, these stories are built on a certain amount of conceit and suspension of disbelief. No, that doesn't mean that every single silly thing that happens should automatically get a pass because it's a comic book movie/show.

On this point, I agree. As I've said before, the full phrase is willing suspension of disbelief. It's not something the audience is required to do no matter what, it's something they have to want to do. And that means it's up to the writers to earn it -- and to avoid abusing it. You can get away with unbelievable stuff, but you have to sell it, to present it cleverly enough or erect enough of a pretense of credibility around it that the audience is willing to play along. You can get an audience used to a certain level of implausibility, but push them too far too often and you risk losing them.

And one of the best ways to earn suspension of disbelief about the impossible elements in a fantasy story is to surround them with as much believable real-world stuff as possible. The more credibly you present the stuff the audience is familiar with -- the behavior of the characters, the realities of daily life and employment, the operation of real-world institutions -- the more they'll be willing to play along with the blatantly fanciful stuff, because it'll be presented in a way that has an air of verisimilitude about it. There are fans who have more trouble accepting Kara's ability to keep her job while constantly being away from her desk than they do accepting Kara's ability to levitate and fly, because the former is a matter of real-world experience.

The story needs to stand on its own merits, not on some bs grading curve invented out of the idea that comic book movies and shows automatically have to do dumb and blatantly unbelievable things.

Yes. It's an insult to any genre to claim that stories in that genre shouldn't be expected to live up to the same standards of competence and quality that we expect of mainstream fiction. Good work is good work, regardless of the subject matter. There's never an excuse for a professional to deliberately lower one's standards.
 
Have you seen maps of how the US population is distributed, like this one? National City is a surrogate for Los Angeles, and there really isn't a lot of population in the American Southwest outside the big cities and their surroundings. If she had succeeded in diverting it from the city, it would've probably gone off in the vast, empty stretches of desert between the cities. You know, like the deserts where a lot of nuclear tests were conducted for decades. (It really boggles the mind to see how empty the western half of the continental US is aside from the West Coast.)

Besides, the fact that Supergirl didn't know how to deal with a missile on her own was part of the point. Part of making smart decisions is being aware of your limitations and asking other smart people to help you. Kara was mad at Hank and the DEO and trying to handle the situation on her own, but it was too much for her, so she realized she needed help after all. Making a mistake is not stupid and weak. What would've been stupid and weak was if she'd refused to admit her mistake and remained stubbornly on the same path until disaster happened. Asking for help and fixing her mistake was smart and strong.

Still doesn't work for me, though. First of all she didn't seem to put any thought whatsoever in which direction she tried to divert it. Maybe it was pointed at a desert. Maybe it was pointed at San Jose or San Francisco (or whatever the dc equivalent of those cities is). Either way, the base was implied to be fairly close, yet the missile took several minutes to reach National City, so I'm not buying that it would have flown all the way out of the metropolitan area before detonating.

And as for knowing your limitations, I agree, that's what they were trying to get across, but you don't have to be a weapons expert to know that pointing a nuclear weapon in the general direction of a desert and hoping it doesn't divert/crash on top of someone's head is a terrible plan. In their attempt to get their point across, they made the hero look dumb and careless, and it killed the entire scene (in conjunction with various other problems, admittedly). In fact, they would've gotten their point across much better if she had simply admitted up front she had no idea how to stop a missle and asked for help without going off halfcocked.

Incidentally, I'm clearly not up on my DC geography. I always thought Coast City was supposed to be Dc's LA. What is Coast City actually supposed to be then?
 
Your approach of "oh, that was shit!!!" about everything in the series isn't much better either.

"everything?" Posting wild exaggeration does not help your position, or hand wave away the shortcomings observed by a good number of members about this series.


So, Winn was looking at a PC screen that showed nothing but a portion of the National City street grid with traffic light status - no cars, just the traffic lights - showing them all green. Yet somehow he knew that a giant semi and a family in a car were on their way to have a huge collision at a specific intersection. And that was the only bad accident about to happen in the whole city?

More of the magical computer gimmick / attempt to make a character seem as though he's valuable.
 
Still doesn't work for me, though. First of all she didn't seem to put any thought whatsoever in which direction she tried to divert it.

Operative word, "seem." That's your assumption. Kara's been flying around and above National City and its environs often enough that I'm sure she has a pretty good mental map of the landscape and doesn't need to pause to deliberate visibly about its geography. I'm planning to go for a walk to the library later today. If someone were watching me when I did so, they wouldn't see any outward sign that I was putting any thought into what direction I headed. But that's because I don't have to. I already know the landscape.

And as for knowing your limitations, I agree, that's what they were trying to get across, but you don't have to be a weapons expert to know that pointing a nuclear weapon in the general direction of a desert and hoping it doesn't divert/crash on top of someone's head is a terrible plan.

But pushing it into the upper atmosphere and imagining that it will somehow be harmless is an equally terrible plan. That's my point. The suggestion that pushing it upward would somehow be smarter or better than pushing it sideways is ignorant and egregiously wrong. It would actually be worse in some ways, due to the EMP, the wider spread of radiation, and the worldwide consequences of the loss of most of Earth's low-orbiting satellites. I'm not saying that pushing the missile sideways wasn't a bad idea; I'm saying that the proposed alternative of pushing it upward is equally terrible if not worse. Entering the shutdown code was a better option than either of those.


Incidentally, I'm clearly not up on my DC geography. I always thought Coast City was supposed to be Dc's LA. What is Coast City actually supposed to be then?

That's the comics. I'm talking about a television show that is quite overtly filmed in Los Angeles, that uses Los Angeles locations and the LA skyline on a routine basis, and that portrays "National City"'s geography in a way that's entirely consistent with Los Angeles. As far as the show's universe is concerned, National City is LA in all but name.

There's no necessity for TV adaptations to put fictional cities in the same place that the comics do. In DC Comics, Metropolis is usually portrayed as an East Coast city; the Atlas of the DC Universe put it in Delaware. But Smallville relocated it to Kansas because it was narratively convenient for them to make it adjacent to their title location -- and over time its Metropolis and Smallville kept migrating closer to each other until Smallville seemed like nothing more than a suburb of Metropolis. For that matter, Arrow has shown Star(ling) City to be in the upper Midwest in some episodes, yet called it a West Coast city in another.
 
For the record, I don't hate the show. But I don't like it much, yet, either. I started watching because I love superheroes and I've learned several times over in the past ten years that these new movies and tv shows, when done right, are a great way to get into more cool superheroes that I never used to follow back when I still had the opportunity to to follow comics. I'm still watching right now because it's not so bad that it's unwatchable (the way Arrow is), so I'm trying to give it a chance to improve.

The issue is that with a universe of screenwriting opportunities, the series--or rather Berlanti--is far too interested in forced, distracting subplots such as most things Cat, or having Supergirl/Kara have to stand on her self-worth / identity soapbox, as if that happening 49,000 other times before was not getting the politics across to audiences. Since taking on the Supergirl job, Kara has been exposed to so many piled up experiences, that she should be fairly confident in knowing who she is; there's no character growth still having her show any part of that early episode doubt.


And as for knowing your limitations, I agree, that's what they were trying to get across, but you don't have to be a weapons expert to know that pointing a nuclear weapon in the general direction of a desert and hoping it doesn't divert/crash on top of someone's head is a terrible plan. In their attempt to get their point across, they made the hero look dumb and careless, and it killed the entire scene (in conjunction with various other problems, admittedly). In fact, they would've gotten their point across much better if she had simply admitted up front she had no idea how to stop a missle and asked for help without going off halfcocked.

Well said. The entire scene made Supergirl seem reckless and completely unprepared for the big stage events.
 
Operative word, "seem." That's your assumption. Kara's been flying around and above National City and its environs often enough that I'm sure she has a pretty good mental map of the landscape and doesn't need to pause to deliberate visibly about its geography. I'm planning to go for a walk to the library later today. If someone were watching me when I did so, they wouldn't see any outward sign that I was putting any thought into what direction I headed. But that's because I don't have to. I already know the landscape.
Fair enough, but it won't change the general impression of the scene. (Admittedly, my general impression doesn't have to be the same as everyone elses)



But pushing it into the upper atmosphere and imagining that it will somehow be harmless is an equally terrible plan. That's my point. The suggestion that pushing it upward would somehow be smarter or better than pushing it sideways is ignorant and egregiously wrong. It would actually be worse in some ways, due to the EMP, the wider spread of radiation, and the worldwide consequences of the loss of most of Earth's low-orbiting satellites. I'm not saying that pushing the missile sideways wasn't a bad idea; I'm saying that the proposed alternative of pushing it upward is equally terrible if not worse. Entering the shutdown code was a better option than either of those.

Ok, but I didn't talk about that at all in the post you responded to. I was simply commenting on the fact that they could have approached the issue in a way that didn't make her look stupid. Or that they could've changed the entire climax to something that wasn't so wildly inconsistent.

That's the comics. I'm talking about a television show that is quite overtly filmed in Los Angeles, that uses Los Angeles locations and the LA skyline on a routine basis, and that portrays "National City"'s geography in a way that's entirely consistent with Los Angeles. As far as the show's universe is concerned, National City is LA in all but name.

There's no necessity for TV adaptations to put fictional cities in the same place that the comics do. In DC Comics, Metropolis is usually portrayed as an East Coast city; the Atlas of the DC Universe put it in Delaware. But Smallville relocated it to Kansas because it was narratively convenient for them to make it adjacent to their title location -- and over time its Metropolis and Smallville kept migrating closer to each other until Smallville seemed like nothing more than a suburb of Metropolis. For that matter, Arrow has shown Star(ling) City to be in the upper Midwest in some episodes, yet called it a West Coast city in another.

Ah, I see. I thought I was missing something from the comics.
 
Look, at least it wasn't heading for Hackensack this time.

(When I saw Superman in '79, it was in a theater in Paramus, NJ, about a mile from Hackensack. The audience went crazy! :lol: )
 
Missing the point. It's not shitty writing because it's physically impossible. It's shitty writing because it made Supergirl look stupid and weak while being completely devoid of tension or excitement, and it did so while totally mangling it's own internal logic. (ie, Indigo wants an apocalypse, yet only launches one missile; Supergirl wants to protect people, yet tries to save National City by just sending the missile in a different direction so it can kill other people, etc.)

Maybe, but somehow I get the sense people in here are taking this show far more seriously than it's really trying to be. Or treating it like it takes place in the grittier world of 24 or Homeland than a light and fun, Lois & Clark-style comic book world.

Still doesn't work for me, though. First of all she didn't seem to put any thought whatsoever in which direction she tried to divert it. Maybe it was pointed at a desert. Maybe it was pointed at San Jose or San Francisco (or whatever the dc equivalent of those cities is). Either way, the base was implied to be fairly close, yet the missile took several minutes to reach National City, so I'm not buying that it would have flown all the way out of the metropolitan area before detonating.

Well I think it's kind of a huge assumption to think she would have simply let it fly on to another city. It looked to me like she was simply trying to see if the missile could be diverted, and to buy herself a bit more time. If it continued to fly on in the same direction, I'm sure she would have chased back after it again.
 
Maybe, but somehow I get the sense people in here are taking this show far more seriously than it's really trying to be. Or treating it like it takes place in the grittier world of 24 or Homeland than a light and fun, Lois & Clark-style comic book world.
No, l'm taking this episode to task for setting up a climax plagiarized from a decades-old movie scene and not even trying to do anything new with it while getting the exact same things wrong, which -and I hate when others say this but there's no other way to say it - threw me the hell out of the story. That was lazy, no matter how many excuses you come up with for doing it.
 
Well I think it's kind of a huge assumption to think she would have simply let it fly on to another city. It looked to me like she was simply trying to see if the missile could be diverted, and to buy herself a bit more time. If it continued to fly on in the same direction, I'm sure she would have chased back after it again.

Right. Trying to change its course was just the first step.
 
Well I think it's kind of a huge assumption to think she would have simply let it fly on to another city. It looked to me like she was simply trying to see if the missile could be diverted, and to buy herself a bit more time. If it continued to fly on in the same direction, I'm sure she would have chased back after it again.

What is the benefit of letting go at all in this scenario? If she was going to chase after it anyway, that would only put her, yet again, in the position of having to catch up to it.
 
What is the benefit of letting go at all in this scenario? If she was going to chase after it anyway, that would only put her, yet again, in the position of having to catch up to it.

Did she have a choice? She was having trouble keeping pace with it. IIRC, she first tried to push it off course, and only when it corrected did she try again and grab a firmer hold. I'm sure we've all seen countless action movies where the hero tries and fails to grab hold of their speeding target the first time and has to try again. It's a standard trope to keep it from looking too easy. So I don't see what's especially objectionable about it here.
 
Did she have a choice? She was having trouble keeping pace with it. IIRC, she first tried to push it off course, and only when it corrected did she try again and grab a firmer hold. I'm sure we've all seen countless action movies where the hero tries and fails to grab hold of their speeding target the first time and has to try again. It's a standard trope to keep it from looking too easy. So I don't see what's especially objectionable about it here.

Plus, we've seen that this show is following the "not easy to safely grab/move flying objects" logic of recent Superman movies - like Kara tearing part of the plane off in the first ep. If she'd tried a strong hold and got it wrong, she could have torn off key flight structures, sending it plummeting and out of control, making it even more difficult to stop.
 
Good grief, 2 pages on the missile scene? :lol:

I actually had tears well up when her sister was confessing to her about Astra. Nicely done!

I was kind of hoping she would have her own FOS, but I did like the updates, like the robot.

Anyway, Indigo was great, although I'm bummed she's aligned with dumbass (Astra's husband). That was pretty creepy at the end when he had all her parts on that thing, and she was blinking.

So what happens with Jimmy and Kara now?

:shrug:
 
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