Agent Carter - Season 2

[RJDiogenes]

Looks like you're right...the phrase "on my last nerve" is completely flatlined until 1975, and peaks sharply from the late '80s on. Maybe I was misremembering, or it could be that Midwestern parents threatening their children in the '70s were ahead of the curve on this one....

It was probably an early 70s phrase that hit the sitcoms in 1975. It sounds like something Bonnie Franklin would say.

Well, who's to say he didn't invent the phrase?

Or transparent aluminum.

I always hated that saying. You can only give 100%, no more. Yet people always try to make it look like they did better than their best. Sorry, no such animal!

Well, as a cliche, it's just hyperbole, like getting punched into the middle of next week, but it can make sense in certain contexts-- like a space shuttle engine operating at 105% of rated capacity, that sort of thing.

 

[Gaith]

I love musical dream sequences.
So there.

I liked it too!

I wonder if Ana's new inability to have children means that they'll eventually take a special shine to a certain son of Howard's... thus leading the adult to remember ol' Jarvis particularly fondly, and to name a certain AI after him.

Speaking of which, if we don't get a third season, it'll be a shame not to get a flashback to Howard and Peggy meeting. Just what did she do that made him treat her strictly platonically? Does or did he have a sister who she uncannily reminds him of? Or is he simply afraid of women who can throw a punch? I mean, she's obviously bright, but nowhere near as smart as him, so it can't be that he's intimidated by her intelligence...

 

[RJDiogenes]

I was thinking about Tony Stark. Obviously, the MCU Tony Stark isn't the Tony Stark of the comics (for that matter, the Tony Stark of the comics isn't the Tony Stark of the comics anymore). He won't be born for another twenty years, give or take, so neither Howard Stark nor Jarvis will be exactly young men. I wonder if anyone in the movie department has thought through the timeline.

 

[Christopher]

I wonder if Ana's new inability to have children means that they'll eventually take a special shine to a certain son of Howard's... thus leading the adult to remember ol' Jarvis particularly fondly, and to name a certain AI after him.

I was thinking along those lines as well -- that it would open the door for Jarvis to be a surrogate father to Tony. (Which, by the way, is a fairly recent interpretation of their relationship -- I think it began in the '90s or '00s in the comics. Originally, Jarvis was just an employee of Tony's, the butler at the Stark Mansion, who spent more time interacting with the Avengers in general than with Tony specifically. Eventually they retconned him in a way that basically mimicked the Batman: Year One reworking of the Bruce Wayne-Alfred relationship, with the butler having served the heroes' parents and been a beloved surrogate father to the hero.)

Speaking of which, if we don't get a third season, it'll be a shame not to get a flashback to Howard and Peggy meeting. Just what did she do that made him treat her strictly platonically? Does or did he have a sister who she uncannily reminds him of? Or is he simply afraid of women who can throw a punch? I mean, she's obviously bright, but nowhere near as smart as him, so it can't be that he's intimidated by her intelligence...

I figure she just shot him down decisively. He's a womanizer, to be sure, but he doesn't have a problem finding women who throw themselves at him eagerly, so it doesn't seem he'd feel the need to push his attentions on a woman who resisted them. A lot of powerful men would, but Howard is a bit more decent than that. And he was smart enough to recognize, during their wartime tenure in the SSR, that the work came first and nothing else could be allowed to interfere with it. So I imagine they developed their rapport during that time. He just got used to thinking of Peggy as a colleague because that's what they were on a daily basis.

 

[Reverend]

I was thinking about Tony Stark. Obviously, the MCU Tony Stark isn't the Tony Stark of the comics (for that matter, the Tony Stark of the comics isn't the Tony Stark of the comics anymore). He won't be born for another twenty years, give or take, so neither Howard Stark nor Jarvis will be exactly young men. I wonder if anyone in the movie department has thought through the timeline.

Well we did see a late middle-aged Howard Stark in IM2 not dealing terribly well with having a young child running around and the first movie established that Tony's father worked on the Manhattan project, so they seem to take it into account.

Honestly it seems logical that Howard would be very late in making any attempt at settling down and having a family. Probably had something to do with feelings of mortality and wanting to leave a legacy behind. That usually kicks in around the late-30's to early 40's.

 

[Gaith]

I figure she just shot him down decisively.

Fair enough, but it could still be fun to see.

Also, I was a bit confused by Wilkes' train of motivations. He heard voices from the unknown, and, presumably under their influence, agreed to help Whitney steal the uranium? (He later insisted to Peggy that he was in full control when he had his gun on her.) But then once he got sucked into the rift, it didn't agree with him, and he wanted it out? I guess maybe it just plain wasn't a good match, and that more or less makes sense, but it's all a bit vague, and smacks of plot convenience rather than narrative coherence. (And maybe sort of disqualifies him as a suitor for Peggy, but even though he says he was completely under control, his actions sure didn't seem rational if that were the case.)

 

[Christopher]

Also, I was a bit confused by Wilkes' train of motivations. He heard voices from the unknown, and, presumably under their influence, agreed to help Whitney steal the uranium? (He later insisted to Peggy that he was in full control when he had his gun on her.)

I believe, rather, that he was convinced by Whitney's appeal to his scientific curiosity, as well as his own desire to regain his solidity. He decided, with a clear mind, that Whitney was right about the benefits of a scientific collaboration between them -- and perhaps was swayed by her argument that they were kindred spirits in that they were both outsiders from the scientific community due to not being white men.

But then once he got sucked into the rift, it didn't agree with him, and he wanted it out? I guess maybe it just didn't agree with him, and that more or less makes sense, but it's all a bit vague and smacks of plot convenience rather than narrative coherence.

I think it is coherent, because the unifying theme is that he wants control of his life. Whitney convinced him that working with her could help him regain that control by understanding and mastering the Zero Matter. But once he was overdosed with it and suffering ill effects from it, it became the thing that was costing him control, so of course he wanted it out.

(And maybe sort of disqualifies him as a suitor for Peggy, but even though he says he was completely under control, his actions sure didn't seem rational if that were the case.)

They were rational, just a bit naive, because he was convinced by Whitney's self-serving reasoning.

 

[Gaith]

They were rational, just a bit naive, because he was convinced by Whitney's self-serving reasoning.

I guess, though Peggy herself clearly assumed he was under the black goo influence at the time. Again, it seems out of character for him, and strikes me as an unnecessary plot wrinkle that could easily have been written out with the same result, and possibly just a lazy disqualifying of his romantic candidacy in Sousa's favor. Having Wilkes be the husband mentioned in TWS would be a bold move, though I admit I prefer Sousa/Gjokaj, who seems a much better actor (residual Dollhouse bias noted) and a more interesting character overall.

 

[Christopher]

I guess, though Peggy herself clearly assumed he was under the black goo influence at the time.

Because she hadn't been privy to the conversation between Frost and Wilkes. Fictional characters' conclusions aren't always right.

Again, it seems out of character for him, and strikes me as an unnecessary plot wrinkle that could easily have been written out with the same result, and possibly just a lazy disqualifying of his romantic candidacy in Sousa's favor.

People often act out of character in extreme situations. Wilkes feared for his life. He was under constant threat of being sucked into oblivion, and he wanted to prevent it by whatever means possible. That left him vulnerable to Whitney's manipulation.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well we did see a late middle-aged Howard Stark in IM2 not dealing terribly well with having a young child running around and the first movie established that Tony's father worked on the Manhattan project, so they seem to take it into account.

Honestly it seems logical that Howard would be very late in making any attempt at settling down and having a family. Probably had something to do with feelings of mortality and wanting to leave a legacy behind. That usually kicks in around the late-30's to early 40's.

Howard seems older than that to me, late 30s to early 40s at the time of Agent Carter. Which would make him 60ish when Tony Stark was born. Not that that's impossible, but it seems odd, like somebody didn't do the math.

 

[Reverend]

Well let's see; his official birth date appears to be 1917, so he would have been 26 in '43 when TFA starts, 57 during the '74 Stark Expo (when Tony appears to be about 4 or 5), 70 in '87 when Hank Pym quits SHIELD and finally 74 in '91 when Hydra knocks him off. Tony is said to be 21 when he inherits Stark Industries so that all seems to line up.
They do indeed appear to have done the math and decided that Howard was unusually (but not unprecedentedly) old when he had a child.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And FWIW, Dominic Cooper is 37, and would have been around 32 when he was in CA:TFA.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, Dominic Cooper is older than Howard Stark relatively speaking.

 

[Mr Light]

(probable) Series Finale Tonight! I'll miss this show. I really love that old timey charm.

 

[Marsden]

I really like the split casting, Cooper is younger Howard, Slattery is older Howard, I like them both, plus it will be really handy for the time traveling episode!

 

[Christopher]

(probable) Series Finale Tonight! I'll miss this show. I really love that old timey charm.

Not necessarily the end. Hayley Atwell has revealed that, even if ABC picks up her new pilot Conviction, they're willing to let her do both series at once (or rather, alternately, since I assume they'd film one during the downtime on the other). Given the shortness of Agent Carter's seasons, that makes sense. So Atwell's casting in Conviction is not the death sentence for Carter that people have assumed. Though we may not learn the show's fate until upfronts in May.

 

[The Old Mixer]

This week's submission: "apology tour"--Took me right out of the episode.

OTOH: 1940s flying car to the rescue!

 

[Marsden]

Well, if you are going to whine, it's best to whine about trivial things.

Damn, I kind of wanted to see what a Jack Thompson run SSR was like.

 

[Christopher]

It was fun, but I feel the Whitney situation was resolved too easily. She should've posed more of a threat, been more of an obstacle to overcome. For one thing, it's no fun when the heroes' plan goes pretty much exactly as intended; the only problem they had was their inability to close the rift after they very easily and predictably dealt with Whitney. For another thing, Whitney was a such a rich and engaging character that it's a shame she just trailed off into monomania here. It was quite an anticlimax. Not that I object to the ending -- it's better than killing her off, and Manfredi's reaction is rather poignant. But I wish she'd gotten something more impressive to do on the way to that ending.

And the Arena Club is still there, weakened but still a factor. I guess I shouldn't have expected them to overthrow the rich white patriarchy, but it's another thing that feels a bit anticlimactic. Presumably it's a thread that will continue if there's a season 3, given the mystery of the pin/key Thompson found. I wonder if the person who took the file of trumped-up charges against Peggy is with the Club or is a harbinger of some new evil.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Well, if you are going to whine, it's best to whine about trivial things.

It's not whining, it's a game.