Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

[CorporalCaptain]

I wondered why they bothered spending time with the hologram of Kara's mother at all, if all she had to say was that she was not programmed with the needed information. In retrospect, upon learning about the actress's availability issues, perhaps it's a ham-fisted way of basically writing the hologram out of the show. Now that we've seen that the hologram doesn't know everything, maybe we won't be wondering so much why it isn't being consulted in the future?

 

[davejames]

Sure, but that doesn't mean they had to waste half the Krypton scenes on Kara arguing with her family about what was real. We've seen scenes like that in plenty of episodes like this. What we haven't yet seen is a real exploration of this version of Krypton outside of Kara's living room and bedroom and the trial chamber (which, oddly, seemed to be right next door to Kara's home here). It was a foregone conclusion that she'd be convinced by the illusion anyway, so that Alex would need to talk her out of it, so they should've had her accept the dream more quickly and then given us some actual Krypton worldbuilding, let us see more of her life than just sitting around in the living room.

No doubt I would have preferred a greater emphasis on the Krypton scenes in the episode, but by the end I still had no problem believing that Kara had become completely attached to this fantasy, or that it was incredibly painful for her to leave. Which is the main thing the story needed to accomplish.

If this hadn't been the 13th episode and potential finale, I get the sense the writers would have indeed focused more on that part of the story and done it better justice, but it's clear they felt obligated to squeeze in one "last" battle with Non and Astra, along with giving the other supporting characters something to do. And given all those different elements and requirements, I thought they managed to make it work surprisingly well.

 

[Marc]

That may work out for the best. Astra was not a particularly compelling villain, and the whole kryptonian vague evil plan is the weakest part of the show. With Astra gone it's in danger of becoming even less interesting because Non is just a generic mustache twirling evil dude. I do hope they found a way to spice that thread up.

so just a load of Non-sense then

 

[Marc]

I wondered why they bothered spending time with the hologram of Kara's mother at all, if all she had to say was that she was not programmed with the needed information. In retrospect, upon learning about the actress's availability issues, perhaps it's a ham-fisted way of basically writing the hologram out of the show. Now that we've seen that the hologram doesn't know everything, maybe we won't be wondering so much why it isn't being consulted in the future?

Had the Astra hologram had the answer it would have been an easy out.

Even if Laura Bernanti is on broadway they could still use her for the hologram simple use existing footage and record the dialogue separately.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Had the Astra hologram had the answer it would have been an easy out.

Even if Laura Bernanti is on broadway they could still use her for the hologram simple use existing footage and record the dialogue separately.

Right, but all we needed was one line from Alex that she had consulted the hologram but it was not programmed with that information. Instead we got a repetitious scene of Alex pleading with a hologram that had already said that it didn't know.

By the way, the hologram is of the mother, Alura, right? Astra was the aunt sent to Fort Rozz.

 

[davejames]

Well I think the point of the scene was more to show Alex's growing frustration and concern over Kara, although I do think they made that point more than clear enough in the episode.

 

[Christopher]

This was definitely underwhelming. It was still enjoyable, but it didn't give me what I was hoping for. My biggest disappointment was how little time we actually spent in Kara's fantasy Krypton. We basically just saw her wake up, react a bit to being on Krypton, and then we jump to her having accepted it. I really wish we could have seen her between first accepting the fantasy, and being convince it was fake. It would have been interesting to see what her life would have been like if she'd lived on Krytpon, and this was the perfect opportunity to show us that.

Exactly my sentiment. And there's another problem: Astra said later that the only way out from the Black Mercy was for Kara to reject the fantasy. But she spent the whole first half of the episode rejecting it! How does that make sense? She should've succumbed to it much more quickly.

I was kind of wishing that the Alura hologram actually had her personality in the scene with Alex trying to learn about the Black Mercy. Hasn't the Jor-El hologram actually had a realistic recreation of his personality in some versions?

In most every screen version of the idea. The idea of Jor-El's consciousness guiding Kal-El originated in Superman: The Movie, but the film is vague about just what that consciousness is -- just that it's got something to do with the crystals as a way of ensuring that Jor-El and Lara will "never leave" Kal-El. For all the film bothers to explain, it could be a computer simulation or a copy of Jor-El's entire consciousness or his actual disembodied spirit possessing the crystal. But for all intents and purposes, it's treated as indistinguishable from Jor-El himself -- especially in the Donner version of Superman II, where the "ghost" of Jor-El actually

Spoiler: Superman II Donner Cut

has to sacrifice himself to restore Clark's Kryptonian powers.

Smallville and Man of Steel also treated the Jor-El entity as sentient; only Lois and Clark and Superman Returns seemed to treat it as simply a set of recorded messages. (I don't know about the Superboy series. Superman: TAS had a recorded message from Jor-El to his son in the pilot, but in the series as a whole, it was a version of Brainiac that filled the "Kryptonian computer guide" role.)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Thing is, we don't know that Supes IS all that experienced, as this show is presenting things. The DEO seems to handle alien threats, so what supervillains is he fighting? Does Luthor even exist in this version? He apparently never managed to beat Reactron when the answer was "dip your hands in molten lead and use the resulting shielding to rip out his power core safely". If he's only been fighting the odd lab-experiment-gone-wrong sort then his "experience" is everyday superheroics (putting out fires, catching jumpers, preventing oil slicks....). Fighting someone on an equal power level might be completely foreign to him.

Superman is not known the world over for rescuing kids stuck in a sewer. This series would not have made such a (worn) point of Kara trying to distinguish herself (as Supergirl) from Superman, if his reputation did not cast a large shadow over the idea of being a superhero.

Hasn't the Jor-El hologram actually had a realistic recreation of his personality in some versions?

In the Donner Superman movies, both the holograms of Jor-El & Lara were somewhat self aware, in that they seemed to be able to directly address questions from Superman, while clearly not being to respond in other areas. However, their personalities were present, hence Superman's reliance on talking to, and/or experiencing them.

 

[Reverend]

This may just be me, but from the comic and the JLU episode my impression has always been that the effect of the Black Mercy is damn near instantaneous as it works on both a psychic and bio-chemical level.
Think something along similar lines as the titular slugs from Heinlein's 'The Puppet Masters' (sans communism allegory, of course) in which the second they made contact with a victim, said victim became *instantly* enthralled to the point of mania and as desperate to stay that way as a coke addict badly in need of a fix.

Kara's reaction should have been like that. Indeed it would have been better not to show her react at all and just played that whole section of the reality as if it were perfectly normal as if she'd been living this life all along (you know, like one does in an actual dream, no matter how weird things get.) Indeed introducing improbabilities like having her step-sister on Krypton as if she were Kara's real sister (Alex Zor-El?) or having an idealised version of her job would have been much more interesting that the Wizard of Oz/pod-people routine.

I mean the audience is never going to buy into the lie and is always going to assume Kara will break out of the dream eventually, so why not use the opportunity to hold a mirror up the the character and give her most desperate hopes and dreams some real depth? Indeed, half the point of a story like this is to make the audience not *want* her to give up the fantasy.
Watching the JLU episode, they did a very good job of making me care about Van-El, despite my having no prior experience with the character and knowing he's just a figment of Clark's imagination. You totally buy into the emotional wrench of having to walk away from that illusion. All of that in 21 mins.

 

[matthunter]

Superman is not known the world over for rescuing kids stuck in a sewer. This series would not have made such a (worn) point of Kara trying to distinguish herself (as Supergirl) from Superman, if his reputation did not cast a large shadow over the idea of being a superhero.

The only times Kara has been explicitly compared to Superman and found wanting (other than by herself) HAVE been her failures or disappearances during disasters. Apart from fighting Reactron, we've heard ZERO about what Supes gets up to other than that his first heroic act was saving a plane, and the same act got Kara a shitton of attention.

If anything, I'd say Supes rep is BUILT on stepping in to help prevent/mitigate disasters. That shows he cares enough to save lives, not just beat down the villain of the week (fights that often cause almost as much damage as they might stop).

But anyway, your constant snide asides indicate you aren't going to accept a positive view of anything related to this series, so hey-ho.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Astra said later that the only way out from the Black Mercy was for Kara to reject the fantasy. But she spent the whole first half of the episode rejecting it! How does that make sense? She should've succumbed to it much more quickly.

Also, I remember an earlier episode where Kara deals with her anger issue and confesses that she is angry because she considers Krypton her true home and resents being on Earth. The whole "Earth is my true home" bit at the end contradicts that. Really, she should have absolutely embraced the fantasy on Krypton since we know that deep down that is where her heart really is.

I also agree with what others have said or implied that the fantasy should have been more like the Nexus in Star Trek Generations, something that is so idyllic that the person never wants to leave it. Maybe they could have shown Kara with her own children, married to James Olsen (who is a Kryptonian) and living a perfect life on Krypton? It would have been something so perfect that Kara would have embraced it right away and it would have taken much more work for Alex to pull her out of it.

 

[Christopher]

Even if Laura Bernanti is on broadway they could still use her for the hologram simple use existing footage and record the dialogue separately.

Then they'd have to rename her Zordon.

Also, I remember an earlier episode where Kara deals with her anger issue and confesses that she is angry because she considers Krypton her true home and resents being on Earth. The whole "Earth is my true home" bit at the end contradicts that. Really, she should have absolutely embraced the fantasy on Krypton since we know that deep down that is where her heart really is.

Maybe it's not a contradiction so much as character growth. Maybe working through her resentment in that episode helped her to recognize that Earth has become her home now.

 

[davejames]

Kara's reaction should have been like that. Indeed it would have been better not to show her react at all and just played that whole section of the reality as if it were perfectly normal as if she'd been living this life all along (you know, like one does in an actual dream, no matter how weird things get.) Indeed introducing improbabilities like having her step-sister on Krypton as if she were Kara's real sister (Alex Zor-El?) or having an idealised version of her job would have been much more interesting that the Wizard of Oz/pod-people routine.

Yeah but we've seen that done countless times as well on different shows, so much that I'm sure people would have accused the writers of being predictable and unoriginal there too.

Unfortunately there just aren't many ways to tell this story that hasn't already been done to death by this point.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah but we've seen that done countless times as well on different shows, so much that I'm sure people would have accused the writers of being predictable and unoriginal there too.

Unfortunately there just aren't many ways to tell this story that hasn't already been done to death by this point.

The point isn't originality (because: duh, the whole thing is an adaptation of a singularly well known Moore/Gibbons comic) the point is execution in terms of emotional depth and characterization.
It's also a problem when a 21min animated show from a decade ago did it better on just about every count.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Did everyone at the DEO know Supergirls secret identity? Because I'm pretty sure they do now. At least Hank was still trying and calling her Supergirl.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

The DEO suffers from the same Voyager Syndrome symptom that no matter how many people are seen doing stuff in the background, only the same handful of people are ever doing any ACTUAL work.

Mark

 

[Guy Gardener]

Telling 3/4s of the cast that they had the week off, is probably flushing a million dollars down the toilet, because they still have to be paid. The 21 minute cartoon didn't have to deal with 8 actors being paid 10s of thousands of dollars for maybe doing nothing, but contractual obligations that they had to do something.

Of course, the cast could all have been retasked into Kryptonians on Krypton, whereafter the story would have been more about Kara being consumed by the illusion world, and less about value for money from the sweat off some handsome backs.

 

[Christopher]

The DEO suffers from the same Voyager Syndrome symptom that no matter how many people are seen doing stuff in the background, only the same handful of people are ever doing any ACTUAL work.

Voyager Syndrome? I'd argue that DS9 was even worse on that point. Not only did they use the same command crew for both DS9 Ops and the Defiant (seriously, why should Kira or Odo ever be part of the Defiant crew??), but they kept giving key bridge or combat roles to characters like Nog and Rom and Garak instead of actual Starfleet or Bajoran officers who were trained for those positions.

Of course, it's hardly unique to Trek. Look at all the TV police precincts where they have a whole bunch of detectives working in the background, but all the big cases go to the same team.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Call it a TV trope, then - but it's tough to dispute that it was an oft-referenced weakness on Voyager, especially when Kim was ordering Lieutenants around, Neelix was a team leader, Tuvok got promoted for no real reason, Paris was made chief medic while plenty of blueshirts were available (and often seen)...

Mark

 

[Guy Gardener]

Blue means all sciences, not just medical.

Voyager's crew should have been a swiss army knife prepared for any eventuality.

DS9 was a mall. Cleaning staff and maintenance and security to throw the drunks against a wall when they get rowdy. Sisko's position was ceremonial in exchange for the the equivalency of money (resources) to help rebuild bajor on it's road to maybe joining the federation. In the pilot, there were not a lot of Star Fleet officers aboard. Just the main cast. Then came the wormhole and 20 more officers as extras, and then came the Dominion and DS9 might as well have been a dozen Enterprises.

The Defiant has 52 crew. It flew and blew shit up. No fine sciences, no diplomacy and no cocking about. Hell, remember Julian complaining about sickbay?