Refugees in the EU

[Oerdin]

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-syrian-refugees-in-us-say-yearslong-process-worth-the-wait-2015-11

It seems like the US and UK have very similar screening processes which are pretty good. That sure beats Merkel's plan to invite everyone in then try to figure out who they are after they are already there.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Oerdin, I see your posts about refugees are just as clueless as your posts about terrorism. Their astonishingly self-impressed tone doesn't do them any favours either.

Honestly, the UK has a far better policy wrt refugees than Germany does.

Because taking a pitifully low number of refugees while letting other countries deal with an actual crisis is totally worthy of your praise, right?

Compare that to the free for all stamped Merkel set off which was about 80% young men looking for jobs many not even from war zones but just simple econonic migrants.

You need to stop reading tabloids or fall for right-wing propaganda. The biggest group of refugees this year has been Syrians. The influx of economic migrants from the Balkans has slowed down and isn't really related to the situation of actual refugees anyway.
I've done some volunteer work in two local refugee camps here in Germany and what you're saying couldn't be further from the truth.

Refugees fleeing for their lives tend to take their whole families with them while economic migrants leave the women and children behind and only the young men go. If it is safe enough for their women and children to stay then really it is safe enough for them to stay as well.

Apparently you completely misunderstand what's going on. You know why young Syrian men leave their families behind in the camps in Turkey and travel to Europe alone?
Because the journey is fucking dangerous. Human traffickers, sinking boats, crowded trucks.

I'll do you a favour and link an English-language article about the dangers on the refugee trail: Click me.

The fact that mostly young men are arriving is due to the dangers of the trip. They're working 15-18 hours a day in Turkey under insane conditions to make money to pay the traffickers. Then they're put on a small boat that might or might not make the trip across the mediterranean. Or they're put into trucks, or get ripped off by drivers in the Balkan countries. If they're unlucky they're robbed of all their money by armed gangs along the way.

I'll give you a random example from one male refugee I've talked to who has now managed to get his family to join him here in Germany: He, his wife and his daughter fled Syria and lived in a refugee camp in Turkey for a year. Conditions were terrible and after a while they ran out of money (they had brought everything they had when they fled Syria) which made life in Turkey even more miserable because Turkey isn't really providing great care. (Turkey probably can't since it's just too many people and Turkey doesn't have enough resources. Or Turkey doesn't want to... that's also possible. To make sure people don't want to stay.)

So he left his family behind in miserable conditions to travel to Germany hoping for a more humane treatment. He had to come here illegally because there's like no legal way unless you want to wait in camps for 3 years (yes... under those conditions). The trip was dangerous and scary. Traffickers stole his money on multiple occasions forcing him to work illegally (crazy hours, crazy conditions) for a while again. When he finally arrived in Germany he got himself registered and when the paperwork was finally done... he was granted asylum and got to have his family travel to Germany legally.

Merkel's policy was a first step towards making entering the country less dangerous because all of a sudden they didn't have to rely on traffickers anymore. This is going to make the trip safer and maybe as a result we'll now also see more women and children coming.

Oh, and if you're actually German or from some other European country that doesn't have a disgusting refugee policy I suggest you do two things:
1) Broaden your daily news-reading horizon to try and understand the complexity of the situation instead of making overly simplistic posts. You might want to do the same in regards to Islam and terrorism since your posts on those topics have been equally lacking in complexity, depth and sometimes even simple fact checking.
2) Go to a refugee camp. Maybe you can help.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Oerdin, I see your posts about refugees are just as clueless as your posts about terrorism. Their astonishingly self-impressed tone doesn't do them any favours either.

Honestly, the UK has a far better policy wrt refugees than Germany does.

Because taking a pitifully low number of refugees while letting other countries deal with an actual crisis is totally worthy of your praise, right?

Compare that to the free for all stamped Merkel set off which was about 80% young men looking for jobs many not even from war zones but just simple econonic migrants.

You need to stop reading tabloids or fall for right-wing propaganda. The biggest group of refugees this year has been Syrians. The influx of economic migrants from the Balkans has slowed down and isn't really related to the situation of actual refugees anyway.
I've done some volunteer work in two local refugee camps here in Germany and what you're saying couldn't be further from the truth.

Refugees fleeing for their lives tend to take their whole families with them while economic migrants leave the women and children behind and only the young men go. If it is safe enough for their women and children to stay then really it is safe enough for them to stay as well.

Apparently you completely misunderstand what's going on. You know why young Syrian men leave their families behind in the camps in Turkey and travel to Europe alone?
Because the journey is fucking dangerous. Human traffickers, sinking boats, crowded trucks.

I'll do you a favour and link an English-language article about the dangers on the refugee trail: Click me.

The fact that mostly young men are arriving is due to the dangers of the trip. They're working 15-18 hours a day in Turkey under insane conditions to make money to pay the traffickers. Then they're put on a small boat that might or might not make the trip across the mediterranean. Or they're put into trucks, or get ripped off by drivers in the Balkan countries. If they're unlucky they're robbed of all their money by armed gangs along the way.

I'll give you a random example from one male refugee I've talked to who has now managed to get his family to join him here in Germany: He, his wife and his daughter fled Syria and lived in a refugee camp in Turkey for a year. Conditions were terrible and after a while they ran out of money (they had brought everything they had when they fled Syria) which made life in Turkey even more miserable because Turkey isn't really providing great care. (Turkey probably can't since it's just too many people and Turkey doesn't have enough resources. Or Turkey doesn't want to... that's also possible. To make sure people don't want to stay.)

So he left his family behind in miserable conditions to travel to Germany hoping for a more humane treatment. He had to come here illegally because there's like no legal way unless you want to wait in camps for 3 years (yes... under those conditions). The trip was dangerous and scary. Traffickers stole his money on multiple occasions forcing him to work illegally (crazy hours, crazy conditions) for a while again. When he finally arrived in Germany he got himself registered and when the paperwork was finally done... he was granted asylum and got to have his family travel to Germany legally.

Merkel's policy was a first step towards making entering the country less dangerous because all of a sudden they didn't have to rely on traffickers anymore. This is going to make the trip safer and maybe as a result we'll now also see more women and children coming.

Oh, and if you're actually German or from some other European country that doesn't have a disgusting refugee policy I suggest you do two things:
1) Broaden your daily news-reading horizon to try and understand the complexity of the situation instead of making overly simplistic posts. You might want to do the same in regards to Islam and terrorism since your posts on those topics have been equally lacking in complexity, depth and sometimes even simple fact checking.
2) Go to a refugee camp. Maybe you can help.

Fracking best post of the day!

 

[cultcross]

Honestly, the UK has a far better policy wrt refugees than Germany does.

No, it has a national embarrassment of a policy built on xenophobia and selfishness. There is no excuse for it.

 

[atlantalliance]

Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton enter final frenzy for voters on Iowa caucus day
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-iowa-caucus-voting-day-1.3428107
He reiterated his call for a border wall to keep out illegal immigrants. He blasted the Iran nuclear deal as "horrible." On the topic of Syrian refugees, he expressed skepticism about "thousands and thousands" of "young, strong men" seeking asylum in the U.S.

"We don't know, are they ISIS? Is this a Trojan Horse? We're not going to take any if I'm [elected]. And I have to tell you something. Anybody that comes in — sadly, I have to tell you — they're going back!" he said, as whistles and roars of approval erupted from the back of the room.

Several times, Trump reminded his audience of his lead position and favourability among Hispanics.

 

[atlantalliance]

Study: Refugees Will Cost Germany EUR 50bn by 2017
http://m.independent.mk//articles/27180/Study+Refugees+Will+Cost+Germany+EUR+bn+by+
A new study in Germany released on Monday puts the cost of the country's refugee crisis at EUR 50 billion by the end of 2017.The German Economic Institute, which is based in Cologne, put together a projection for feeding, housing and educating the children of one million-plus migrants who have entered the country.Shelter, medical care and integration policies for refugees will cost the German state EUR 22 billion in 2016, and EUR 27.6 BILLION in 2017. Germany has an annual government budget of around EUR 1.5 trillion.If the Cologne experts are correct, the German finance ministry will have to seek new credit to pay for the migrants by the end of this year.'A critical review of expenditure is required to avoid new debt,' wrote the study authors..

It will surprise you to learn that most European countries have functioning (universal) health care systems.

I get news feeds blogs and chat rooms so sometimes I do see things outside the mainstream, yes many European countries have health care systems

but for how much longer?
take this vid with a pinch of salt, I assume the radio show host is a rightwing conservative

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

however if even a half of what he says is true, then Europe is going to have one hell of a summer
yes Europeans have health care but for how much longer?...and some ask if the problems are soon coming to America?

 

[cultcross]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tablegee-crisis-response-morally-unacceptable

120 economists have written to Cameron to shred his analysis of the economic woes of taking refugees, pointing out that previous refugee movements into the UK have not caused any economic chaos in much larger numbers than he is currently allowing, and that allowing economically active age refugees to work actually boosts the economy and the government's revenues. Especially given our issues with a top heavy population.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Study: Refugees Will Cost Germany EUR 50bn by 2017
http://m.independent.mk//articles/27180/Study+Refugees+Will+Cost+Germany+EUR+bn+by+
A new study in Germany released on Monday puts the cost of the country's refugee crisis at EUR 50 billion by the end of 2017.

Germany actually ran a balanced budget in 2015 despite the extra costs for the refugee crisis. How many other countries have managed to actually balance their budget in 2015?
So even if some new debt is needed in 2016 that's hardly an issue with interest rates for German government bonds being as ridiculously low as they are.

It's funny how you cherry-pick which economic news you link to. How about this?

IMF says refugee influx could provide EU economic boost

The recent influx of refugees into Europe is likely to raise economic growth slightly in the short term – mainly in Austria, Germany and Sweden – and could deliver a bigger long-term economic boost to the EU if refugees are well integrated into the job market, according to the International Monetary Fund.

or this:

Germany's economy will grow faster because of the millions of refugees its helping, study finds

From an economic point of view there's no reason to worry too much right now. Germany's been booming for years and the refugee crisis is unlikely to change that for now.

I get news feeds blogs and chat rooms so sometimes I do see things outside the mainstream, yes many European countries have health care systems

Right... and?

but for how much longer?

I literally laughed when I read that. Fearmongering much?
No, our health care systems won't collapse. Try not to lose sleep over this.

take this vid with a pinch of salt, I assume the radio show host is a rightwing conservative

I suggest finding a better source then.
Dude, seriously, just in the first minute the guy talks about refugees and says this:

There is now an invasion underway from the Middle East, muslims, many of them Islamists, and you can't tell me there aren't a lot of Al Qaida among them.

So you hear this kind of insane nonsense and you actually keep listening? That's amazing.

however if even a half of what he says is true, then Europe is going to have one hell of a summer

I think judging from the first minute of that video we can safely assume that significantly less than 50% of what that uninformed, xenophobic dickhead says is true since he seems to love distorting reality.
I get that some people really have a hard time telling quality media from stupid propaganda but in this case it's just so blatantly obvious.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/refugees-in-the-eu.275404/page-7#post-11454789

So now you're just straight up posting white supremacist videos with the BS "If only half of this is true..." caveat as if you having been threadshitting with equally hateful fearmongering crap all over the board already? Infraction for trolling. Comments to PM.

 

[atlantalliance]

I'm not a Republican voter, not white, I'm not even American. I posted a vid from a radio host who reads out a viral email from a nurse/physician in Munich and because of this or maybe because this person strongly disagrees with Chancellor Merkel and Obama this makes me a 'racist' or some kind of white supremacist....is this what people on the bbs talked of when they spoke of the 'regressive left' wow Loctus of Bored you really are something else, you truly are something and if you continue with this harassment I'm going to complain YOUR behaviour to the trekbbs administration

10,000 refugee children are missing, says Europol
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/30/fears-for-missing-child-refugees
The EU’s criminal intelligence agency warns pan-European gangs are targeting minors for sex work and slavery

don't worry its the guardian a very left leaning British newspapers, nobody's head is going to implode after reading it

 

[{ Emilia }]

It's you quoting racist videos and saying xenophobic things that make people judge your posts like that. You can fix that yourself.
I still can't believe you quoted that hateful bullshit video.

You might also want to stop using the "regressive left" nonsense whenever you were proven thoroughly wrong by somebody with facts. See my post above.

 

[Starkers]

I think what you meant to say is that the radio host reads out an email purporting to be from a nurse in Munich.

That's like saying you should listen to me because I'm a High Court Judge.

I have no desire to watch the video but if it's the letter I think it is then Snopes has a view

 

[atlantalliance]

I have no desire to watch the video but if it's the letter I think it is then Snopes has a view

maybe that's a better idea
let us read out the snopes letter ---Which appears to have been Altered
and see if there is anything KKK-ish, anything white supreme about it, anything hitlerism to it, or anything 'racist'.....yes there are heated words, there are flaming, I think even the word 'animals' is used
but let's take it in context this is a nurse who has had her hospital totally over run and has seen violence and a knife attack
if for example one of your work colleges was in a fight with riots, imagine your work friend got stabbed and you called the stabber an 'animal' or something, would that make you racist?
The snopes article throws in the word 'animals' but I'm not sure how accurate snopes is here

The snopes website posted the viral email


Yesterday, at the hospital we had a meeting about how the situation here and at the other Munich hospitals is unsustainable. Clinics cannot handle emergencies, so they are starting to send everything to the hospitals.


Many Muslims are refusing treatment by female staff and, we, women, are refusing to go among those animals, especially from Africa. Relations between the staff and migrants are going from bad to worse. Since last weekend, migrants going to the hospitals must be accompanied by police with K-9 units.

Many migrants have AIDS, syphilis, open TB and many exotic diseases that we, in Europe, do not know how to treat them. If they receive a prescription in the pharmacy, they learn they have to pay cash. This leads to unbelievable outbursts, especially when it is about drugs for the children. They abandon the children with pharmacy staff with the words:

“So, cure them here yourselves!” So the police are not just guarding the clinics and hospitals, but also large pharmacies.

Truly we said openly: Where are all those who had welcomed in front of TV cameras, with signs at train stations?! Yes, for now, the border has been closed, but a million of them are already here and we will definitely not be able to get rid of them.

Until now, the number of unemployed in Germany was 2.2 million. Now it will be at least 3.5 million. Most of these people are completely unemployable. A bare minimum of them have any education. What is more, their women usually do not work at all. I estimate that one in ten is pregnant. Hundreds of thousands of them have brought along infants and little kids under six, many emaciated and neglected. If this continues and German re-opens its borders, I’m going home to the Czech Republic. Nobody can keep me here in this situation, not even double the salary than at home. I went to Germany, not to Africa or the Middle East.

Even the professor who heads our department told us how sad it makes him to see the cleaning woman, who for 800 Euros cleans every day for years, and then meets young men in the hallways who just wait with their hand outstretched, want everything for free, and when they don’t get it they throw a fit.

I really don’t need this! But I’m afraid that if I return, that at some point it will be the same in the Czech Republic. If the Germans, with their nature cannot handle this, there in Czechia it would be total chaos.

Nobody who has not come in contact with them has no idea what kind of animals they are, especially the ones from Africa, and how Muslims act superior to our staff, regarding their religious accommodation.

For now, the local hospital staff has not come down with the diseases they brought here, but, with so many hundreds of patients every day — this is just a question of time.

In a hospital near the Rhine, migrants attacked the staff with knives after they had handed over an 8-month-old on the brink of death, which they had dragged across half of Europe for three months. The child died in two days, despite having received top care at one of the best pediatric clinics in Germany. The physician had to undergo surgery and two nurses are laid up in the ICU. Nobody has been punished.

The local press is forbidden to write about it, so we know about it through email. What would have happened to a German if he had stabbed a doctor and nurses with a knife? Or if he had flung his own syphilis-infected urine into a nurse’s face and so threatened her with infection? At a minimum he’d go straight to jail and later to court. With these people — so far, nothing has happened.

And so I ask, where are all those greeters and receivers from the train stations? Sitting pretty at home, enjoying their non-profits and looking forward to more trains and their next batch of cash from acting like greeters at the stations. If it were up to me I would round up all these greeters and bring them here first to our hospital’s emergency ward, as attendants. Then, into one building with the migrants so they can look after them there themselves, without armed police, without police dogs who today are in every hospital here in Bavaria, and without medical help.

Now both letters read almost exactly the same
the radio show host video I posted read a letter that said refuse to go among 'these people'
while on snopes article reads a letter, which has perhaps been edited since? and reads refuse to go among 'these animals'

... I would say the radio show host might have even read a less heated on than the letter snopes posted

Like I said I'm not a Republican voter, not white, not even American
and yet Locutus of Bored called me a racist and gave me an infraction for my post

I have a good feeling to complain this political harassment and dishonesty to higher administration of the trekbbs

You might also want to stop using the "regressive left" nonsense

I don't think its nonsense
there is a battle happening so to speak happening right now inside the Left parties, so many were for this whole refugee immigration thing and so many inside the Left, so many others had doubts.

You now have reports of 10,000 refugee children MISSING
10,000 migrant children lost amid the crisis

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I have a good feeling to complain this political harassment and dishonesty to higher administration of the trekbbs

By all means, I recommend you craft a lengthy, strongly-worded missive to the TrekBBS administrators over what your behavior here has gotten you, and see how that turns out. It will no doubt go swimmingly for you.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I have a good feeling to complain this political harassment and dishonesty to higher administration of the trekbbs

PM the mod, discuss, a day or two later if you're inclined go to the Moderator Action forum.

The other method would be to stop with the bigoted and prejudicial material in your posts so you don't get warned, but you do what works for you, dude,

 

[Robert Maxwell]

And just for shits, I'll ask once again: what does @atlantalliance propose be done about the refugees already in the EU? What does he(?) propose be done to keep more out? Let's find out what the real solution is from the apparent expert.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It's amusing when someone advocating prejudice complains that people are prejudiced against them.

 

[{ Emilia }]

let us read out the snopes letter and see if there is anything KKK-ish, anything white supreme about it, anything hitlerism to it, or anything 'racist'.....

Nah, let us not read that out because it's a right-wing hoax.
Are you really falling for that?
There's a reason German media don't even bother reporting this. It only appeared in right-wing blogs.

yes there are heated words, there are flaming, I think even the word 'animals' is used

Obviously, because it's racist propaganda.

Many migrants have AIDS

No.

Many Muslims are refusing treatment by female staff and, we, women, are refusing to go among those animals, especially from Africa.

No.
Racist, too.
Are you really reading a right-wing propaganda piece that calls non-white people "animals" and taking all its other claims seriously?

And whoever wrote this doesn't even know how the German health care system works.

The "fun" bit is: Right-wing conspiracy theories just spread like this. They just claim "Local media isn't allowed to report this!" and people will gobble it up not questioning it because it fits their xenophobic world views.

 

[atlantalliance]

No.

all these reports are 'racist'?
Refugee and Migration Crisis Becomes Public Health Crisis
Muslim women refuse to be treated by male doctors, and many Muslim men refuse to be treated by females. — Max Kaplan, director of the Bavarian Medical Board.
Charity Aid Groups Warn of Disease in Migrant Camp
Roughly 5% of asylum seekers are carrying resistant germs. In real numbers, this works out to around 75,000 newcomers with highly infectious diseases.

Obviously, because it's racist propaganda.

The letter wrote and read out on air by the radio show host was far less heated, it simply said 'people'


So some of you guys know how Swedish and Germany's Merkel had launched operations to censor anti-immigration posts yet this fact is ignored....and some of you guys feel any complaint posted outside the mainstream CNN, BBC, Süddeutsche Zeitung, Frankfurter Rundschau, Die Zeit, MSNBC...they must all be Right-wing conspiracy theories or KKK propaganda?

and what about the reports of missing children?
is this the report of rightwing racists?

I think this is why you guys get called the regressive-left

10,000 migrant children lost amid refugee crisis in Europe
http://globalnews.ca/news/2490304/10000-migrant-children-lost-amid-refugee-crisis-in-europe/
Authorities dealing with Europe’s migrant crisis have lost track of about 10,000 unaccompanied children amid fears that organized crime gangs are beginning to exploit the vulnerable youngsters, a senior official at the European Union’s police agency said Monday.

Europol Chief of Staff Brian Donald said that the figure “would be a conservative estimate across all the countries that are dealing with this migrant crisis” over the past 12-18 months.

The revelation that so many youngsters are unaccounted for is the latest worrying development in the migrant crisis and underscores the risks faced by people fleeing conflict, poverty and persecution in the Middle East, Africa and Asia even once they have reached the apparent safety of Europe.

Donald said the estimate of 10,000 missing was based on reports by law enforcement authorities, governments and non-governmental organizations.

“They’re lost in the system,” he said of the minors. “I think our concern is that we know that there are people out there who will exploit minors. We know there are people who will take them and use them for their own purposes.”

 

[{ Emilia }]

These right-wing conspiracies really are self-reinforcing.
They claim mainstream media just isn't allowed to write this stuff. So when mainstream media doesn't write about it because it simply doesn't exist... the conspiracy theorists can claim that's proof of its existence.

It's amusing but also a bit scary that people like you fall for that logic.