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Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1

Barry has caused/seen a few different timelines, and they can't all lead to the same council of Time Masters.

I think that Barry's most recent tinker with time probably led to the future of the Time Master council; they likely didn't exist before that. I would base that theory on how Vandal Savage was the focal point of the last timeline change.

If that's the case, the Time Master council will probably show up the next time Barry tries to change something. The council is protecting how things play out from the Arrow crossover forward.
 
Man, these guys are the worst time travelers ever. No matter what they try, they just screw up history worse and worse, and even their attempts to fix it end up causing more screwups. This is going to be fun to watch just to see how badly they foul up next.

The actor playing the young Martin Stein was well-cast. He looked the part, with the ears and the chin (I wonder if maybe there was some makeup assistance there), and he did a fantastic job mimicking Victor Garber's speech rhythms. And I loved the weird "triangle" of old Stein watching Sara flirt with young Stein.

I hadn't expected them to kill off Hawkman in the pilot episode, but I guess it explains why they didn't go to the trouble of casting a more capable actor. They only needed him for four episodes. Although I expect we'll probably see him return as other incarnations of Hawkman in the past and future. Hopefully not too soon, though.

But what a lousy plan the team had. Have everyone else deal with the goons while only the Hawks went to deal with Savage? Considering that they've failed to defeat him 206 times before, and that the only time they succeeded was when they had the help of a superhero team, shouldn't they have known going in that this was a terrible plan? Heck, last week, Carter specifically argued to Kendra that they'd have a better chance against Savage with a team supporting them. So why suddenly abandon that advantage now?
 
I wonder if the Hawks have considered using automatic weapons?

(Morons.)

We have a problem here.

There's a second Karter on the karmic wheel from 1975 onwards, or at least there will be until 2016.

Pudding or appetizer?

Or does the second Karter also forced to reincarnate, side step the entire suicide pact he has with that girl Hawkgirl? Becuase Vndal does not suspect to look for him if he's busy killing the Hawks that are supposed to be there?

I was listening to the language to see if Vandal might being Karter and not Shayera?

Meh.

Wishful thinking.
 
These Legends need some work. I liked the Part 2 of the pilot, especially the Stein and Stein interactions. Hawkman and Hawkgirl challenging savage was foolish. Oh well, I guess they'll find a new Carter down the line.
 
I wonder if the Hawks have considered using automatic weapons?

(Morons.)

We have a problem here.

There's a second Karter on the karmic wheel from 1975 onwards, or at least there will be until 2016.

Pudding or appetizer?

Or does the second Karter also forced to reincarnate, side step the entire suicide pact he has with that girl Hawkgirl? Becuase Vndal does not suspect to look for him if he's busy killing the Hawks that are supposed to be there?

I was listening to the language to see if Vandal might being Karter and not Shayera?

Meh.

Wishful thinking.
Wow - you know, I never thought about that.. This Carter would also reincarnate, so he'd be back some time soon (i.e. 2016)...
 
I know myself and others made fun of Ant-Man by calling him "Tiny Iron Man", but Ray Palmer just convinced me that he's a better "Tiny Iron Man" than Scott Lang. Haha those fight scenes were hilarious. I was actually surprised how good the choreography was in the wide shots they did. Arrow's fight scenes haven't been as convincing this season.
 
Lets assume that Reincarnation is automatic.

Which would also assume that they don't wait for each other in limbo/purgatory/heaven before their souls shoot back down into new Earth bound babies, which is why they are always comparatively the same age, rather than trying to #### their through a 50 year age gap.

(If some "god" is preparing new bodies/babies to look identical to the Hawks, then that god knows ahead of time when Vandal is going to kill the prince and priestess at the conclusion of each karmic cycle.)

Ciara (Hawkgirl) was born in 1990.

Falk (Hawkboy) was Born in 1985.

Maybe Vandall killed them separately, but that means that there might be a 41 year old Carter hanging out in 2016... Or the Carter we saw this time around was 41, and the younger Carter who was supposed to find the girl was cock blocked by his slightly older self, and still frakked up.

Point is that there's at least one extra cycle between the 1975 and when the currents Hawks were born.

Oh.

Vandall's Immortality is dependent on eating the Hawks after he kills them.

Kill the Hawks, and Vandall Savage will wither and die.

With a time machine, you don't have to even kill them.

Drop them off in 3016.

Vandall starves and dies by the early 23rd century.
 
Lets assume that Reincarnation is automatic.

Which would also assume that they don't wait for each other in limbo/purgatory/heaven before their souls shoot back down into new Earth bound babies, which is why they are always comparatively the same age, rather than trying to #### their through a 50 year age gap.

(If some "god" is preparing new bodies/babies to look identical to the Hawks, then that god knows ahead of time when Vandal is going to kill the prince and priestess at the conclusion of each karmic cycle.)

Ciara (Hawkgirl) was born in 1990.

Falk (Hawkboy) was Born in 1985.

Maybe Vandall killed them separately, but that means that there might be a 41 year old Carter hanging out in 2016... Or the Carter we saw this time around was 41, and the younger Carter who was supposed to find the girl was cock blocked by his slightly older self, and still frakked up.

Point is that there's at least one extra cycle between the 1975 and when the currents Hawks were born.

Oh.

Vandall's Immortality is dependent on eating the Hawks after he kills them.

Kill the Hawks, and Vandall Savage will wither and die.

With a time machine, you don't have to even kill them.

Drop them off in 3016.

Vandall starves and dies by the early 23rd century.

From CBR:


"Of course, death is a relative term when it comes to Hawkman, as he famously possesses the ability to be reincarnated. But Hentschel's face may not pop up again on the series as soon as you'd think. As Executive Producer Marc Guggenheim told TV Line in a freshly published interview, reincarnation can only take place once both Hawkman and Hawkgirl die. “That’s when the clock gets reset for them," he said, "and that’s when two babies are born.”

However, Guggenheim also points out that the death took place out of time, so it's still possible for the Legends to encounter another version of Carter Hall while hopping to the past or future. In other words, anything's possible"

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/main-character-killed-early-game-dcs-legends-tomorrow
 
I was actually surprised how good the choreography was in the wide shots they did.

Are you talking about stunts or special effects? Because I'm finding myself less than impressed by all these big group fight scenes with everyone swooping around and shooting various beams. That sort of melee scene works on the comics page where you can take your time to absorb the whole scene, but on TV it's just kind of a wild clutter. (And I think my local CW affiliate has problems with its download speed, because both here and on The Flash I've been getting dropoffs in resolution in visually complex and fast-changing scenes, and the picture's been lagging a bit behind the sound. Maybe I should go back to watching on Hulu, but I'm not certain my modem connection's much better.)
 
I'm not sure how Rip Hunter can simultaneously be concerned about disrupting time and totally fine with going back in time to kill off a guy who was apparently responsible for key events in human history. I was expecting some rationale for having to keep Vandal alive until the 22nd century. I figured the plan would be to use time travel to destroy Vandal's support bases in the past so that he would be in a weakened position come the final battle in the future. If that's not a concern, I'm not sure how this show can last for 16 episodes. They might as well just go to one of the events in which he's shown in a historical photo and begin the final battle now. This show can be over in 15 minutes.

I agree. The premise of the show sounded good, until they started completely ignoring all the obvious ways to achieve the objective much more easily. Hopefully they'll get better at that (since the general theme of the pilot overall does seem to have been 'here's all the crap that can go wrong').

Every time Rip makes a noticeable change to the timeline, the future sees and sends soldiers back to iron out the wrinkles Rip has made. Doctor Hunter has to be be like a submarine, hiding perfectly until he's ready to deliver his deathblow.

It's just a question of if the Council of Time Masters are "protected" from temporal revision, or if they are going to be replaced by a different council of Time Masters the instant Rip kills/neutralizes Vandal...

How dumb are the Hawks? If they don't die the moment they were ever supposed to have died, then they reincarnate into the wrong families in the wrong years/generations.

I don't see any reason to believe reincarnation can even be screwed up by time travel at all. The whole point is that souls exist outside of time, therefore they can reincarnate whenever they want.

Man, these guys are the worst time travelers ever. No matter what they try, they just screw up history worse and worse, and even their attempts to fix it end up causing more screwups. This is going to be fun to watch just to see how badly they foul up next.

The actor playing the young Martin Stein was well-cast. He looked the part, with the ears and the chin (I wonder if maybe there was some makeup assistance there), and he did a fantastic job mimicking Victor Garber's speech rhythms. And I loved the weird "triangle" of old Stein watching Sara flirt with young Stein.

I hadn't expected them to kill off Hawkman in the pilot episode, but I guess it explains why they didn't go to the trouble of casting a more capable actor. They only needed him for four episodes. Although I expect we'll probably see him return as other incarnations of Hawkman in the past and future. Hopefully not too soon, though.

But what a lousy plan the team had. Have everyone else deal with the goons while only the Hawks went to deal with Savage? Considering that they've failed to defeat him 206 times before, and that the only time they succeeded was when they had the help of a superhero team, shouldn't they have known going in that this was a terrible plan? Heck, last week, Carter specifically argued to Kendra that they'd have a better chance against Savage with a team supporting them. So why suddenly abandon that advantage now?

I was honestly glad to see him go, since (after watch the Flash/Arrow crossover) he was one of the biggest reasons I considered not even trying to watch this, but in this episode they did actually manage to make decent use of him to further Kendra's story and simultaneously get rid of the show's weakest link. I'm sure that this is ultimately also the true reason why the show can last a full season instead of skipping straight to the final battle: Kendra is the only one who physically can kill Savage and she's not anywhere near skilled enough yet to hope to beat him in a fight (even with help). But letting them go in there alone was truly idiotic. I keep hoping that one day these shows will stop making supposedly smart people make ridiculously bad decisions just to further the plot.

Are you talking about stunts or special effects? Because I'm finding myself less than impressed by all these big group fight scenes with everyone swooping around and shooting various beams. That sort of melee scene works on the comics page where you can take your time to absorb the whole scene, but on TV it's just kind of a wild clutter. (And I think my local CW affiliate has problems with its download speed, because both here and on The Flash I've been getting dropoffs in resolution in visually complex and fast-changing scenes, and the picture's been lagging a bit behind the sound. Maybe I should go back to watching on Hulu, but I'm not certain my modem connection's much better.)

I didn't mind the big splash effect of it at all. It doesn't matter that I can't take in everything, the scale still achieves a certain enjoyable affect. The lack of impact of the cold/heat guns, did bother me, though. I know their budget must be straining trying to produce so many different fx on a cw show, but cutting away every time someone gets hit is not an effective replacement for (at least occasionally) showing someone catch fire or start to freeze.
 
if they want to get really crazy they could introduce Katar Hol.

Yeah... I'm so used to thinking of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman as Thanagarians that this restoration of the Golden Age reincarnation backstory is still weird to me.

However, they seem to be reserving the aliens for Supergirl. The Arrowverse has metahumans and parallel worlds and time travel and magic and demons (since Constantine's been folded in), but the one thing it doesn't have so far is aliens.
 
Yeah... I'm so used to thinking of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman as Thanagarians that this restoration of the Golden Age reincarnation backstory is still weird to me.

However, they seem to be reserving the aliens for Supergirl. The Arrowverse has metahumans and parallel worlds and time travel and magic and demons (since Constantine's been folded in), but the one thing it doesn't have so far is aliens.
Well, you know, except for Supergirl, and Superman, and the Kryptonians, and the Martian Manhunter, and everyone from Fort Ross or whatever it's called...

Edit: Sorry, missed the "reserving for Supergirl" bit on my first read. Though technically everyone from Earth 2 is an alien.
 
Yeah... I'm so used to thinking of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman as Thanagarians that this restoration of the Golden Age reincarnation backstory is still weird to me.

However, they seem to be reserving the aliens for Supergirl. The Arrowverse has metahumans and parallel worlds and time travel and magic and demons (since Constantine's been folded in), but the one thing it doesn't have so far is aliens.
Only until the Green Lanterns make their appearance.
 
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