Public perception of Star Trek?

[AdmiralShran]

Also, there more interesting facet is the idea of social commentary about the importance of father figures in shaping great heroes like James T. Kirk or Spock. That's the thread the runs through 09 and in to STID that interests and inspires me. Also, there are plenty of nods to TOS throughout both of these films.

So it's like a postmodernist Shinzon thing: "if only you had had a father figure you wouldn't be an incompetent drunk douche of a captain!"

But, it was supposed to be new. It didn't have to adhere or demonstrate all the backstory. There was actually enough, given Spock's history with the Romulans he really was the only one who could serve as the liaison.

Like I said, it doesn't care at all - it's just blowing up planets for the cool special effects and cheap emotional effect.

 

[AdmiralShran]

But, it was supposed to be new. It didn't have to adhere or demonstrate all the backstory. There was actually enough, given Spock's history with the Romulans he really was the only one who could serve as the liaison.

Look... let me give you some context to what I'm saying...

This six minutes was deemed more important to the film than any backstory on the two planets that get "blowed up with splotions" that form the emotional impetus of the villain and the protagonists:

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[CorporalClegg]

Those six minutes also say [sic show] more about Kirk than any other six minutes of any other character in any other iteration.

Try again.

 

[AdmiralShran]

Those six minutes also say [show] more about Kirk than any other six minutes of any other character in any other iteration.

Yes, they tell me he shouldn't be commanding a starship.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Look... let me give you some context to what I'm saying...

This six minutes was deemed more important to the film than any backstory on the two planets that get "blowed up with splotions" that form the emotional impetus of the villain and the protagonists:

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You keep confusing your opinion for fact. The hyperbole does you no favors either. This scene with Kirk was a fine insight into the character.

 

[AdmiralShran]

This scene with Kirk was a fine insight into the character.

That the "hero" of the story is alcoholic white trash?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Except he wasn't alcoholic white trash by the end of the film.

That was the whole point.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Or, you know, TOS.

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Eh. Let's be fair here. This is not a face-to-camera interaction like Avery Brooks in DS9. If anything, De Kelley's looking anywhere BUT the camera; looks more like McCoy's angle would be towards Amanda or Christine in that scene.

 

[AdmiralShran]

Except he wasn't alcoholic white trash by the end of the film.

I must have missed that part.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Did you even watch the film?

 

[Gov Kodos]

That the "hero" of the story is alcoholic white trash?

Except he wasn't alcoholic white trash by the end of the film.

That was the whole point.

Indeed, we get that you simply hate the films, AdmiralShran. You've said nothing else for pages ignoring anything that doesn't fit in with that hate. You've ignored valid counterpoints to your arguments and posited the wildest notions as fact for post after post.

 

[AdmiralShran]

You've ignored valid counterpoints to your arguments and posited the wildest notions as fact for post after post.

And everyone else has ignored valid arguments as to why the movie is trash. Looks like we're on the internet.

 

[Gov Kodos]

And everyone else has ignored valid arguments as to why the movie is trash. Looks like we're on the internet.

No, they don't share your opinion and have countered it here in this thread. You're ideas are becoming increasingly difficult to take take seriously.

 

[Paradise City]

Eh. Let's be fair here. This is not a face-to-camera interaction like Avery Brooks in DS9. If anything, De Kelley's looking anywhere BUT the camera; looks more like his angle would be towards "Amanda" in that scene.

I think that's toying with the audience without actually breaking the 4th wall. There's toying with the audience with Sisko in which he actually speaks to his personal log in that Romulan episode.

This is breaking the 4th wall. A very active engagement with the audience. And, yes, this technique is rarely used.

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[CorporalClegg]

I think that's toying with the audience without actually breaking the 4th wall. There's toying with the audience with Sisko in which he actually speaks to his personal log in that Romulan episode.

This is breaking the 4th wall. A very active engagement with the audience. And, yes, this technique is rarely used.

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Yes. Sisko's speech was just him talking to himself, with the camera such that it seems like he's talking to the audience. It's basic soliloquy: the cinematic version of "To be or not to be...", if you will. And, yes, it's very common.

Actually talking to the audience Alvy Singer style is indeed still pretty rare--though not as so as it used to be.

 

[AdmiralShran]

I think that's toying with the audience without actually breaking the 4th wall. There's toying with the audience with Sisko in which he actually speaks to his personal log in that Romulan episode.

Fair enough, I'm not in the film or drama industry. It really wasn't the point - I was just mentioning it in passing in relation to Star Trek episodes that stood out.

 

[AdmiralShran]

Except he wasn't alcoholic white trash by the end of the film.

That was the whole point.

No, the whole point was "white people get promoted out of 'privilege' and not ability."

Ironic coming from such an Roberto "the cold fusion froze the volcano because it's cold fusion" Orci.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Dinozzo would make a fantastic Starfleet captain.

 

[AdmiralShran]

Dinozzo would make a fantastic Starfleet captain.

Only if there's Gibbs there to smack him in the back of the head every five minutes which means he's not Captain. Other than that he's out of his depth.

 

[Paradise City]

I was unhappy with Kirk going from cadet to captain in a week. Delinquency to commanding the "flag ship" in one blasted week?. I don't care if this stupidity was depicted in TOS episode 42 season whatever. It's useless nonsense. I would've objected to that whatever the film.

I agree with 75% of what AdmiralShran is saying. I get the point the other gentleman made on this thread about Kirk's father being something he took away from this film. Fine. But I didn't think that was played very well throughout the film; like everything else potentially good about this film, it struggles to feature with all the other loud noise that's going on.

I confess that people I knew enjoyed the film. But I have to say noone took anything away of interest bar that it was an action romp with dazzling FX. Noone I know in RL "got" Nero. It didn't disturb anyone in the way that the bridge scene in Star Wars disturbed and unnerved people leaving that movie. I want a special experience when I go to cinema; I was very disappointed that I didn't get it with either of these films.