Best Villains?

[dub]

Saw this in an ongoing debate in another thread. Thought we could have a friendly discussion here. What do you think are the best villains in the Trek films? Including the newest two films in this poll as well just for the heck of it.

For me, the best villains in the Trek films thus far have been those in TWOK, TSFS, TUC and FC. While I enjoyed '09, the villain was probably the weakest part of that film for me.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts!

 

[bbjeg]

Though they're all enjoyable films (maybe not TMP) the two villains that stand above the rest for me are of TWoK and FC. Khan's dark revenge and the neutral evil that is the Borg.

 

[BillJ]

Kruge.

He reminds me of a TOS Klingon. Christopher Lloyd plays him with such zest!

 

[Trekkin]

Sybok and Khan. Sybok because he's more mislead and well-intentioned, than evil. Khan because of the performance, and because he had just enough depth to be both a cackling loon and be a tiny bit sympathetic. If we count 'God' as the villain of TFF, then Khan would probably have to win.

Soran and Shinzon had some moments I really liked, but both ended up falling flat.

 

[Greg Cox]

I went with Khan, Chang, the Borg Queen, and, after some reflection, Soran.

GENERATIONS, as a movie, is not one of my favorites, but Malcom McDowall delivers a great performance nonetheless.

"Time is the fire in which we burn . . .."

 

[Magellan]

Khan, obviously. An antagonist who can truly match Kirk and played with gusto by Montalban. Unfortunately, he seemed to cement the idea that the movies had to have a villain as cool as him to be good.

Star Trek IV and the Motion Picture don't have villains at all........although that space sausage got to do more with his part than Eric Bana.
Sybok isn't really a villain either, but I guess God counts.

Edit: Shout out to Kruge as second best. Lloyd is awesome. Are we counting the Borg as the villain of FC, or the Borg Queen? I like the Borg but not so much the Queen.

 

[dub]

By the way, in case you guys didn't notice...IT'S MULTIPLE CHOICE!

Are we counting the Borg as the villain of FC, or the Borg Queen? I like the Borg but not so much the Queen.

This is precisely why I listed movie titles in the poll instead of specifically naming the villains. I knew people would have issues with which person/persons/entity/entities I listed as villain/villains. Pick your baddies!

 

[Paradise City]

I did like Sybok. The way he flummoxes Spock completely. Sybok embraces his emotion and things come easy to him whereas Spock always struggles with his discipline. That is until the last scenes when we find out Sybok has been wasting his and everybody's time after all and Spock is vindicated. And clearly "discovering" a half brother the writers were chancing their arm of course -- and yet I felt it kinda plausible. The Vulcans are so uptight, logical yet inhibited by these huge stigmas, they place so much value on logic and disdain emotion, that a "black sheep" refusing instruction and going maverick might very well be not spoken about.

Kahn is so iconic though I gotta put him at my top spot. He's quite foolish in this film though. He's consumed with rage and his judgement is clearly impaired. He allows himself to be goaded by Kirk "I'm laughing at the superior intellect" (I gotta start using that line on this forum ) He's not the calculating character we see in Space Seed. But the grudge match between the two oozes character. Kahn belongs along with Scaramanga in the pantheon of 80s villainy.

Kruge is great too. The brinkmanship on the BOP and the way he exults in grappling with Kirk on a basic warrior to warrior basis. He unapologetically revels in his ruthlessness. Great stuff.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

TWOK - Khan is iconic.
TUC - The combination of Klingon and Starfleet against the E-A crew is great as it throws into question just who can be trusted.
FC - Mindless, unstoppable cybernetic zombies, what's not to like?

 

[Shikarnov]

I chose ST4 and ST6.... I have no idea why, but I enjoy stories in which we're our own worst enemy. Killing the whales may very well have doomed us, except for the heroics of Kirk and company. V'Ger was also a compelling character, but I'd hesitate to call it a villain in spite of the destruction it wrought. It was more like a force of nature.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Frankly, on paper, Khan isn't that great of a villain. He's saved by a fantastically fun and over-the-top performance.

Conceptually, I think Shinzon is probably Trek film's best. And, of course, knowing now what a great actor Hardy is, the performance plays much better in hindsight than it did at the time (at least for me). Unfortunately, all that was drowned in ten feet of festering dialog and plot. And despite Hardy and the script being good, bad, or otherwise, I think the concept would have played best with Stewart.

And I'll even add that I also think CumbyKhan is conceptually better than the original. And, on any other day, Cumberbatch is the better actor. It's just that his performance lacked that charming zest.

 

[T'Girl]

Khan, Sybok and Chang.

The smiling villain who mind rapes the majority of the secondary characters and the extras to achieve control ... definitely a villain

Honorable mention, Jean Luc Picard in Insurrection, when all is said and done, Picard truly was that movie's villain.

 

[OpenMaw]

Honorable mention, Jean Luc Picard in Insurrection, when all is said and done, Picard truly was that movie's villain.

Gotta feel bad for poor Admiral Daugherty. Trying to help billions of people only to get washed out by some naive blowhard.


For me I love both Khan and Kruge.

Kruge actually a little more though. I think he's an overlooked and underappreciated a villain. He's not a madman, he's not out for revenge.

He's trying to protect the Klingon Empire from something that, from the Klingon perspective, looks absolutely terrifying.

People really don't give him a lot of credit. He tried to be careful to cover his tracks while on his mission, he was aiming for the long game (wanting to take prisoners and discover the secret of the torpedo) and he was even willing to give Kirk the chance to inform his crew that they were going to surrender. Yes, he did have one of his men kill a prisoner, but again, look at it from his perspective. These are his mortal enemy with a device that, as far as he knows, could be in the process of mass production. A device that could literally wipe the Klingons out. Just warp some really fast ships across the Neutral zone and start nuking planets. No more Klingons. That's what Kruge sees.

Honestly, in a lot of ways, he was a Klingon that really reminded me of Kirk. They both go rogue to take care of their respective business in TSFS.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ5CO7cT6Qg&spfreload=1[/yt]

 

[Paradise City]

He sees it as a Fed weapon, doesn't even entertain the Fed sales pitch about it and wants it more to seize power and chase out the bungling politicians to be replaced by someone who knows what he's doing: him! That's my reading of Kruge.

And all that gets put on the shelf with the prospect of coming face to face with the guy who has almost bested him: Kirk. And as much fun as he has battling in his ship, he just revels in what is the true calling of a warrior; hand to hand combat. He's a very pure Klingon in its most raw form.

 

[Terok Nor]

Montalban's Khan is the best villain in the entire Star Trek universe as far as I'm concerned. Nice to see an actor relish playing a bad guy and doing a remarkable job of turning what is essentially a paper thin character into an icon of villainy. As much as I adore Cumberbatch he simply wasn't Khan to me.

I love the Borg Queen but only with Alice Krige in the role. She lost something when Susanna Thompson took over the character. The Queen made a great villain in First Contact.

Chang was really fun. A stereotypical mustache twirling villain played by a brilliant actor.

Kruge is underrated I agree. He came across as the most evil of the villains, perhaps because he's responsible for the death of Kirk's son and Kirk destroying the Enterprise.

Soran was okay but when I think of him I think of Kirk's death which I thought sucked.

I never saw Sybok as a villain.

The rest of the villains were okay but none really stood out to me. I don't know if they count but the Duras sisters were one of the best things about Generations. I enjoyed their scenes more than the ones with Soran, Kirk and Picard.

 

[dub]

Shinzon...I think the concept would have played best with Stewart.

Amen!

 

[T'Girl]

Shinzon...I think the concept would have played best with Stewart.

Amen!

Maybe they should have gotten Stewart's brother Trevor for the role?

 

[Shikarnov]

And I'll even add that I also think CumbyKhan is conceptually better than the original. And, on any other day, Cumberbatch is the better actor. It's just that his performance lacked that charming zest.

My feeling is that the main problem with NuKhan is that his motivation was very poorly setup, and even more poorly executed.

In the original, we literally saw where Khan was coming from -- a broken, destitute, world. We understood the suffering of him and his people, and we knew who was to blame: Admiral Kirk. We had the full depth of his anger explained in no uncertain terms, and his thirst for revenge (as well as his possible insanity) was at least reasonable.

NuKhan was just a madman. As an audience, we never had a chance to connect with him. His anger with Admiral Marcus was empty, as was his heartfelt desire to save his crew. A few throw-away lines in calm center of a quick-paced action movie does not help us connect with this character. Given how little he had to work with, I think Cumberbatch's lacking performance was probably the best we could expect.

IMNSHO, the pre-theme teaser would have been much better utilized setting up Khan than figuring out how to break Kirk (only to put him back in the center seat 5 minutes later anyway).

Gotta feel bad for poor Admiral Daugherty. Trying to help billions of people only to get washed out by some naive blowhard.

"How many people does it take before it becomes wrong? Hmm? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million? How many people does it take, Admiral?"

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

We understood the suffering of him and his people, and we knew who was to blame: Admiral Kirk.

This is one of the reasons I don't find Khan a well written villain at all. Kirk offered him a life in prison or the for "A world to win, an empire to build". Kirk was the best thing that happened to Khan, and the writers for some reason tell us Khan is brilliant, but never once show it, through his reasons for hating Kirk and simple things like not understanding that space is 3 dimensional. Thank goodness the actor jumped off the screen and you couldn't help but enjoy the performance. But as a character? Bottom of the list.
Soran was much more interesting to me, while the Borg as a race is such a terrifying concept on the page and execution that they got my votes. Kruge would be a third vote for me.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

My picks:

TMP for V'ger. One of the most powerful adversaries ever faced in the franchise and the cloud VFX were extremely interesting.

TWOK for MontalKhan. Entertaining and memorable lines and delivery, plus larger-than-life screen presence.

STV for Sybok. Laurence Luckinbill's performance is one of the unfortunately few highlights of this film.

STFC for the Borg Queen. While I did not really like the idea of a Borg Queen, I think that Alice Krige did an excellent job.

STXI for Nero. He had me at, "Hello, Christopher."