CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[steam235]

It could bankrupt them or it could shoo away some of the star talent. If one or two of the billed actors decided to move away from a now controversial project, things could end quickly.

Frankly I wonder if the production can shift to a non Star Trek story along the same lines. The creative force behind Megaman video games left and crowd sourced a "Megaman style" game called Mighty No 9. I think too much is at stake for it to not have "Klingons" "Starfleet" and the iconic Star Trek ship designs.

 

[ConRefit79]

It if a common misconception that copyright violations must make money to be violations. Plenty of fan websites that didn't make a penny were shut down back when those were a thing, because they used copyrighted material like characters, fonts, logos etc. Any creative effort plagiarising the effort of others without permission can violate their copyright regardless of profit.

The cats out of the bag when it comes to Star Trek fan films. CBS allowed it for years. What's different here? That Axanar may approach television or film quality production? Is New Voyages next. I know they've solicited donations to recreate the Desilu sets..

 

[Harvey]

The Facebook status from Axanar that I quoted above has been removed.

I still see it.

 

[steam235]

The Facebook status from Axanar that I quoted above has been removed.

Sure, they probably spoke with a lawyer, who promptly said "Don't speak about it at all" They've riled up their fans to get some grass roots support but from here on we probably won't hear much about it at all until it's settled.

Looks like the postings on Doug Drexler's page are gone too.

 

[9gs]

I wanted to see Axanar, but I fully expect them to get seriously crunched. My real question is what's going to happen with the other films. My guess is that STC is likely to be the bellwether due to their level of fundraising and public profile.

I am sure CBS is trying to decide whether they want to piss off most of the existing Star Trek fan base by shutting down all the fans productions or selectively enforcing the copyrights and pissing off some of the fan base. In the end the former may be legally the most cost effective route.

 

[Dukhat]

So, I'm a bit confused. I've asked this question before, and I've never gotten a satisfactory answer. And it's such a simple question, too.

Here it is, again:

I was under the impression that fan productions are not allowed to make any kind of profit, in any way. So how is it possible that some fan productions can have Kickstarter campaigns, and also be able to pay their talent?

 

[slappy]

If you're looking to get your money back, good luck.

I don't think you'll ever see it.

 

[Squiggy]

I am sure CBS is trying to decide whether they want to piss off most of the existing Star Trek fan base by shutting down all the fans productions...

Most of the fan base doesn't care about fan productions.

Are the "professionals" in these Fan productions paid? Does anyone make money off these ventures? If Axanar is used to help other profitable ventures I can see grounds to sue. If not what legal ground would CBS have to sue? Or are they afraid of competition siphoning viewers from their 2017 effort.

It if a common misconception that copyright violations must make money to be violations. Plenty of fan websites that didn't make a penny were shut down back when those were a thing, because they used copyrighted material like characters, fonts, logos etc. Any creative effort plagiarising the effort of others without permission can violate their copyright regardless of profit.

True. But TPTB probably won't care enough to enforce anything until you start making money.

 

[SeerSGB]

Where the guys running the Axanar Facebook pages smart, they'd embargo any talk or discussion of the lawsuit on a public page. You can bet CBS lawyers are watching. Plus there's so many armchairs lawyers on their its comical.

 

[slappy]

I am sure CBS is trying to decide whether they want to piss off most of the existing Star Trek fan base by shutting down all the fans productions...

Most of the fan base doesn't care about fan productions.

I cared about this one and only this one and now I'll probably never see it.

 

[Philip Guyott]

The plaintiffs demand a trial by jury. Should be interesting.

 

[SeerSGB]

The Facebook status from Axanar that I quoted above has been removed.

It's still there: https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekAxanar/posts/887198424728015

Comic artist Colleen Doran wades into the debate: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153378872831314&id=311416896313

The smoking gun is in the comments where the fan creators go on and on about how they are not making a profit on the work - even though they raised a million bucks - and that makes it OK!

Folks, that doesn't make it OK. Profit is not the deciding factor in whether or not your fan fiction is a copyright violation. For the most part fan fiction is technically illegal, because it is derivative work. Making a million bucks and trying to pass that off as "non-profit" is just daffy. It doesn't matter if there is any money left over after all the bills are paid, you still made money.

And for the record, you don't have to sue to protect your copyright. You can just let it slide anytime you want and pretend you never saw it. You can't lose your copyright through non-enforcement.

Trademark is another matter. You must take legal action in cases of trademark violation or you lose the trademark.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

So, I'm a bit confused. I've asked this question before, and I've never gotten a satisfactory answer. And it's such a simple question, too.

Here it is, again:

I was under the impression that fan productions are not allowed to make any kind of profit, in any way. So how is it possible that some fan productions can have Kickstarter campaigns, and also be able to pay their talent?

Here's my take on it, take it with whatever grains of salt you wish since I'm not a lawyer, but I am involved with an audio production which recently used a Kickstarter to raise money to employ two major TOS stars.

The producers of shows cannot make money in any, way, shape or form. If the producers choose to pay money to some or all personnel that's their business.

The difference here may be that instead of pumping their Kickstarter money directly into the production, Alec and company decided to create a for-profit studio that would raise money for their hobby project.

Personally, I think Alec's legal difficulties could be a lot deeper than just this c&d. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there's an investigation (hell, there may already be one) into possible fraud charges.

Not to mention, both Alec, AND his GF were drawing salaries....

 

[ALF]

Damages, eh? That's pretty goddamn threatening.
Is this the beginning of the end (of fanfilms)?

CBS/Paramount. I wonder if they've really thought this through to its natural conclusion... is this really the kind of exposure they want? If the intent is to send a message, will it resonate? I also wonder if they have a chance in hell of collecting said damages. If it's gone this far, clearly the lawyers expect success with it. I just don't see most civilians willing to stand with CBS, a company that releases (trolls with) Star Trek trailers with motorcycle chases in the hopes of pleasing their fan base.

So weird. Start right clicking and saving all your favorite Trek fan film episodes, I guess.

 

[SeerSGB]

So, I'm a bit confused. I've asked this question before, and I've never gotten a satisfactory answer. And it's such a simple question, too.

Here it is, again:

I was under the impression that fan productions are not allowed to make any kind of profit, in any way. So how is it possible that some fan productions can have Kickstarter campaigns, and also be able to pay their talent?

Here's my take on it, take it with whatever grains of salt you wish since I'm not a lawyer, but I am involved with an audio production which recently used a Kickstarter to raise money to employ two major TOS stars.

The producers of shows cannot make money in any, way, shape or form. If the producers choose to pay money to some or all personnel that's their business.

The difference here may be that instead of pumping their Kickstarter money directly into the production, Alec and company decided to create a for-profit studio that would raise money for their hobby project.

Personally, I think Alec's legal difficulties could be a lot deeper than just this c&d. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there's an investigation (hell, there may already be one) into possible fraud charges.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see the IRS brought in on this. I'm not one for wanting to see someone's dirty laundry, but I'm betting it's going to be...interesting when things get cooking.

 

[Mudd]

I am sure CBS is trying to decide whether they want to piss off most of the existing Star Trek fan base by shutting down all the fans productions...

Most of the fan base doesn't care about fan productions.

Are the "professionals" in these Fan productions paid? Does anyone make money off these ventures? If Axanar is used to help other profitable ventures I can see grounds to sue. If not what legal ground would CBS have to sue? Or are they afraid of competition siphoning viewers from their 2017 effort.

It if a common misconception that copyright violations must make money to be violations. Plenty of fan websites that didn't make a penny were shut down back when those were a thing, because they used copyrighted material like characters, fonts, logos etc. Any creative effort plagiarising the effort of others without permission can violate their copyright regardless of profit.

True. But TPTB probably won't care enough to enforce anything until you start making money.

Xerox used to routinely run magazine ads and make other efforts to inhibit the use of the term "xerox" as a synonym for photocopying. The thinking, apparently, was that failure to protect a trademark with regularity makes it more likely that it would be ruled generic in some later court case.

 

[SeerSGB]

I am sure CBS is trying to decide whether they want to piss off most of the existing Star Trek fan base by shutting down all the fans productions...

Most of the fan base doesn't care about fan productions.

It if a common misconception that copyright violations must make money to be violations. Plenty of fan websites that didn't make a penny were shut down back when those were a thing, because they used copyrighted material like characters, fonts, logos etc. Any creative effort plagiarising the effort of others without permission can violate their copyright regardless of profit.

True. But TPTB probably won't care enough to enforce anything until you start making money.

Xerox used to routinely run magazine ads and make other efforts to inhibit the use of the term "xerox" as a synonym for photocopying. The thinking, apparently, was that failure to protect a trademark with regularity makes it more likely that it would be ruled generic in some later court case.

I think Johnson & Johnson (?) did the same thing with the term "Band-Aide"

 

[Squiggy]

Is this the beginning of the end (of fanfilms)?

Probably the end of fanfilms of this magnitude.


Their days were numbered anyway. CBS wasn't going to care or enforce anything as long as Trek sat on the shelves. Once a series got back in the works they were going to clamp down on anything that might distract from their Trek (which is the one True Trek. Amen).

 

[OpenMaw]

Not to mention, both Alec, AND his GF were drawing salaries....

Yeah... That's not going to end well. At all.



See this is what I was alluding to in another thread awhile ago. I was missing the old days when fan films, all of them, were sort of quaint and much humbler outings. Over the last few years they have gotten more and more professional, and I could only sense this was going to end badly somewhere. The kickstarters, all of them, scared the Hell out of me. And that is not a reflection on any of the people running them. I have no idea of any of the people behind them personally, just the idea. It didn't seem smart in the long term for these series to go so lavish.

I mean, you can try to couch things in certain terms and words and pretend that you're not doing what you are doing, but having things like a "store" and selling merch even though you're saying that these are "perks" for "donating" when in reality someone is basically buying unofficial Star Trek merchandise and helping you pay for your project via the profits made off of selling said merchandise. Things like that made me really worried.

Eh, this is a very sad event. The fact that Alec jumped right to "WE SHALL FIGHT TO THE LAST MAN" is also most unfortunate, and if he truly believes he has anything to stand on... Eh.

 

[Karzak]

And...Alec Peters, god bless him, has lost it. Just posted on the Axanar Facebook page:

CBS SUES AXANAR!

Well, it appears CBS knows that Axanar is exactly what fans want, because they are trying to shut us down! While Team Axanar will have a response shortly, know this DOES NOT deter us from what we are doing! Delivering to fans exactly what you want.

Goliath, meet David (and his thousands of screaming fans)!
‪#‎IstandwithAxanar‬