There's a great example of what was wrong with Season 1. Let's redo a classic TOS episode, but this time we'll make it as boring as possible!
Seasons 1 & 2 Unwatchable?
- Thread starter ConRefit79
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There's a great example of what was wrong with Season 1. Let's redo a classic TOS episode, but this time we'll make it as boring as possible!
That's what I hope they DON'T do. Unless the new series is set in early 21st century, then the social mores of whatever era it is set in should be vastly different than those in 2015.
When I said modern social mores I meant 'Progressive, individualistic'. I hope 2017Trek allows characters to define relationships on their own terms instead of conforming to some conservative model of a family unit.
But again that would assume that "progressive" and "individualistic" remain relevant in the future. I'm not saying that modern conservatism is the model to follow either. The reality is that there is no such thing as "progress" in regards to culture. There is only change. Cultures establish an ideal vision and then any change towards that ideal is considered progress and anything else is not. But those ideals have and will continue to change through out time.
Can you imagine the impact contact with intelligent alien life would have on culture globally? I think that out there in the void culture and cultural ideals and thus "progress" is going to be vastly different than what we see today. That's why I have such a hard time believing that in pretty much all of Star Trek humans have a late 20th century American culture. I suppose there could have been some sort of swing back to it. But it's still pretty unbelievable.
And how exactly do you do that? You're basically just guessing at future sensibilities which always leads to laughable sci-fi.
TOS was the 60's set in the 23rd century, TNG was the late 80's/early 90's set in the 24th century. The new show will obviously be the late 2010's set in the future. Fine by me.
I agree with what you said in the general case, but the destination of the ideal we measure ourselves against is not a random selection. It's no accident that as education increases women gain more power in relationships and as the survival rate of children increases, relationships that do not produce children become more accepted. Or that the less tyrannical society is, the more happiness of the individual is valued over conformity.
Assuming Star Trek 2017 still takes place in a culture of abundance, education and individual rights, there's no reason to think any form of relationships wouldn't be practiced and accepted.
I remember when the DVDs came out, I had gone in with the knowledge that everyone hated Seasons 1 and 2. After watching them, I always wondered why. There's a lot of great stuff there, like Conspiracy, Measure of a Man, 11001001 (The last two going into my top 20 TNG episodes), Contagion, and Q Who, to name a few. Also, there was a sense of wonder in the first two seasons that the rest of the series lacked. I liked the Enterprise going to complete various missions, but it wasn't like that in Seasons 1 and 2. In the end, they were very watchable, even though I really wish they had started with the Season 3 uniforms. In fact, I wonder if they had, would those two seasons have been much better?
Season 3 was when I tuned off. And one of the reasons was because the uniforms (and clothing in general) were becoming so conservative....so sterile. As I probably brought out earlier, for me, the show was becoming sterile, and very talky.
But, some people like that version of Trek.
"I wonder when this show starts to get good?"
Personally I think the need for constant action is one of the problems with modern entertainment. When I watch older shows like the Twilight Zone, they didn't need to have a laser shootout every three minutes. They took their time and established character so they could have a better payoff at the end of the episode. For me, shows like that were more exciting than shows that try to give you instant gratification. And I don't think just showing off a lot of legs is an improvement over conservative.
But you'll get no argument that the later years of the show were usually visually and musically dull.
But you'll get no argument that the later years of the show were usually visually and musically dull.
I hated the music for Trek from TNG season 3 to the end of Voyager. There were some good things in there (Best of Both Worlds, Inner Light, The Visitor) but for the most part it was really boring and was like hearing screeching on a chalkboard.
I get what you're saying but Twilight Zone and TNG still are 'different beasts.' Today, I'm gathering people of all ages are watching Rod Serling's show because it combines horror, fantasy, sci-fi, the western. Sure, it's not an action show because that's not what Twilight Zone tried to be, it was a 'human condition' show that was set in different genres. And the 30 min running time pushed the writers to come up with something that made you go 'wow.' (Yes, the music and camera angles and dialogue helped).
Note: There are still some T-Zone episodes that 'affect me' if I were to watch them late at night alone.
With TNG, the music was (at least for me) dull...and the characters were one note and self-righteous. Granted, they were self-righteous in the first two seasons, but there was a potential to have them grow. Not too mention the conservative attitude that permeated the series post-seasons 1 and 2. For example, Kirk may take a rest on a 'pleasure planet' with Scotty and McCoy....where Picard may relax reading a Dickens book and we'll spend an hour about him trying to find a missing page or an archeological artifact that is linked to that Dickens book....
Yeah, different characters...but, again for me, TNG just became so boring. The fun was sucked out and there wasn't a sense of adventure. Still, there are fans of the slow-moving, sterile, conservative version of Star Trek (e.g. some think TMP is one of the best Trek films).
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The first two seasons are so dry in parts, I think it's hard to argue that, it could've moved a lot faster and there should have been more Worf (in my opinion 
). BUT I adored Tasha Yar and Pulaski. It was so nice to see interesting, abrasive, intelligent and well-rounded female characters - unstereotypical femininity.
AND...
Data's "emotion" surrounding Yar's death ("my thoughts aren't for Tasha but for myself, I keep thinking how empty it will be without her presence"). That line was so perfect, it's so logical but so human - it shows how Data can comprehend the significance of death without compromising the reality that he is an android, it doesn't pander to human emotions. Such clever writing!
Plus Datalore
plus Elementary, dear Data.
plus Home Soil
are all highly entertaining episodes.
Even if I find myself tuning out in some episodes of Season 1&2, there are a few moments/episodes that really stuck with me.
). BUT I adored Tasha Yar and Pulaski. It was so nice to see interesting, abrasive, intelligent and well-rounded female characters - unstereotypical femininity. AND...
Data's "emotion" surrounding Yar's death ("my thoughts aren't for Tasha but for myself, I keep thinking how empty it will be without her presence"). That line was so perfect, it's so logical but so human - it shows how Data can comprehend the significance of death without compromising the reality that he is an android, it doesn't pander to human emotions. Such clever writing!
Plus Datalore
plus Elementary, dear Data.
plus Home Soil
are all highly entertaining episodes.
Even if I find myself tuning out in some episodes of Season 1&2, there are a few moments/episodes that really stuck with me.
I'm three episodes into TNG, and yeah, it gets off to a very rough start.
'Code of Honor' must have been enough to turn TOS purists off the show completely back in the day
'Code of Honor' must have been enough to turn TOS purists off the show completely back in the day
I'm three episodes into TNG, and yeah, it gets off to a very rough start.
'Code of Honor' must have been enough to turn TOS purists off the show completely back in the day
I was a TOS purist and I found it to be a very welcome change to the many, many, many planets that features aliens that were basically Caucasian humanoids.
I'm sure it did turn off some purists (i.e. closet racists) who weren't used to seeing so many black people on screen...especially one that had an interest in a white woman.
Can you imagine if Picard was actually an attractive black man and that relationship with Beverly Crusher was initiated off the bat? Those purists (i.e. racists) would have had a fit!
(Remember, this was the 80s and the only interracial relationships that were 'okay' were the white male/Asian female - ex: Keiko and Miles, Nurse Ogawa and the unnamed white officer - and that's still the case in some respects today in non-Trek shows).Star Wars had their own purists recently when they were upset that John Boyega and other non-white performers were given primary roles; those purists wanted a boycott of The Force Awakens. Of course, the quick rise to a billion dollars worldwide shows how much that boycott actually worked.
I hope to see the Ligonians in another series or a movie.
I'm three episodes into TNG, and yeah, it gets off to a very rough start.
'Code of Honor' must have been enough to turn TOS purists off the show completely back in the day
I was a TOS purist and I found it to be a very welcome change to the many, many, many planets that features aliens that were basically Caucasian humanoids.
I'm sure it did turn off some purists (i.e. closet racists) who weren't used to seeing so many black people on screen...especially one that had an interest in a white woman.
Can you imagine if Picard was actually an attractive black man and that relationship with Beverly Crusher was initiated off the bat? Those purists (i.e. racists) would have had a fit!
Star Wars had their own purists recently when they were upset that John Boyega and other non-white performers were given primary roles; those purists wanted a boycott of The Force Awakens. Of course, the quick rise to a billion dollars worldwide shows how much that boycott actually worked.
I hope to see the Ligonians in another series or a movie.
Oh, FFS, stop making this a stupid racial thing. It was a bad episode as evidenced by some of the cast saying it was their worst episode and the director being fired before filming was even done. Nobody said "oh look, black people, bad episode". Come on now.
I guess I'm a racist too because I disliked the episode? Okay.
I'm pretty sure those were trolls, dude. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, was following everything leading up to the film, and trust me on this, no sane person was actually seriously hating on the movie for casting black/latino males as leads. Trolls.
I'm three episodes into TNG, and yeah, it gets off to a very rough start.
'Code of Honor' must have been enough to turn TOS purists off the show completely back in the day
I was a TOS purist and I found it to be a very welcome change to the many, many, many planets that features aliens that were basically Caucasian humanoids.
I'm sure it did turn off some purists (i.e. closet racists) who weren't used to seeing so many black people on screen...especially one that had an interest in a white woman.
Can you imagine if Picard was actually an attractive black man and that relationship with Beverly Crusher was initiated off the bat? Those purists (i.e. racists) would have had a fit!
Star Wars had their own purists recently when they were upset that John Boyega and other non-white performers were given primary roles; those purists wanted a boycott of The Force Awakens. Of course, the quick rise to a billion dollars worldwide shows how much that boycott actually worked.
I hope to see the Ligonians in another series or a movie.
Oh, FFS, stop making this a stupid racial thing. It was a bad episode as evidenced by some of the cast saying it was their worst episode and the director being fired before filming was even done. Nobody said "oh look, black people, bad episode". Come on now.
I guess I'm a racist too because I disliked the episode? Okay.
I'm pretty sure those were trolls, dude. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, was following everything leading up to the film, and trust me on this, no sane person was actually seriously hating on the movie for casting black/latino males as leads. Trolls.
Well, considering the main reason some people, including some of the cast members, dislike that particular episode because it is supposedly racist, this 'making it a stupid racial thing' has been going on for some time. Too, it's a recurring topic on this site and for some racist trolls on Youtube.
If you don't see anything racial about 'Code of Honor,' cool. Some people do, unfortunately....and seemingly for the wrong reasons.
The only racial thing I DO see about 'Code of Honor' is: It was cool seeing a lot of black faces, which was very new at the time, I want to see that many black faces in a Star Trek movie or episode again.
Hell, at that time I had a crush on Tasha Yar and I wouldn't have minded 'kidnapping' her myself (in a mutual role-playing sense, of course).
In regards to Star Wars: Yes, they were trolls. Butt-hurt trolls.
As John Boyega put it eloquently: "Deal with it."
If he and Daisy Ridley have an onscreen relationship (and kiss) in a future 'episode' those racist trolls are going to have heart attacks!
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I was a TOS purist and I found it to be a very welcome change to the many, many, many planets that features aliens that were basically Caucasian humanoids.
I'm sure it did turn off some purists (i.e. closet racists) who weren't used to seeing so many black people on screen...especially one that had an interest in a white woman.
Can you imagine if Picard was actually an attractive black man and that relationship with Beverly Crusher was initiated off the bat? Those purists (i.e. racists) would have had a fit!
Star Wars had their own purists recently when they were upset that John Boyega and other non-white performers were given primary roles; those purists wanted a boycott of The Force Awakens. Of course, the quick rise to a billion dollars worldwide shows how much that boycott actually worked.
I hope to see the Ligonians in another series or a movie.
Oh, FFS, stop making this a stupid racial thing. It was a bad episode as evidenced by some of the cast saying it was their worst episode and the director being fired before filming was even done. Nobody said "oh look, black people, bad episode". Come on now.
I guess I'm a racist too because I disliked the episode? Okay.
I'm pretty sure those were trolls, dude. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, was following everything leading up to the film, and trust me on this, no sane person was actually seriously hating on the movie for casting black/latino males as leads. Trolls.
Well, considering the main reason some people, including some of the cast members, dislike that particular episode because it is supposedly racist, this 'making it a stupid racial thing' has been going on for some time.
If you don't see anything racial about it, cool. Some people do, unfortunately....and seemingly for the wrong reasons.
The only racial thing I DO see is, in regards to the episode: It was cool seeing a lot of black faces, which was very new at the time, I want to see that many black faces in a Star Trek movie or episode again.
In regards to Star Wars: Yes, they were trolls. Butt-hurt trolls.
As John Boyega put it eloquently: "Deal with it."
If he and Daisy Ridley have a relationship and kiss in a future 'episode' those trolls are going to have heart attacks!
Oh yeah, it is pretty racist. People hate on it because those "aliens" are just a stereotypical sexist west African tribe, but not because it has black people in it. Big difference.
To your comment about them getting heart attacks, I wouldn't mind that at all
Oh yeah, it is pretty racist. People hate on it because those "aliens" are just a stereotypical sexist west African tribe, but not because it has black people in it. Big difference.
To your comment about them getting heart attacks, I wouldn't mind that at all
Ahhh, so it's a 'stupid racial thing' unless there is a certain point of view about the episode. Since Trek fans come in all different shades and racial groups and experiences, there are bound to be different opinions.
If it was so racist, 'Code of Honor,' the show should have 'corrected' it and shown the Ligonians again. Expanded upon them rather than just dropping them altogether. (Instead, we had an overkill of Klingons and honor and Borg, oh my). Moreover, if the Ligonians were white or even Asian...there probably wouldn't have been any 'racism' talk.
Again, if the supposed problem was how they - Ligonians - were portrayed rather than the color of their skin....we should have seen them again in a different light. We didn't.
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As John Boyega put it eloquently: "Deal with it."
If he and Daisy Ridley have an onscreen relationship (and kiss) in a future 'episode' those racist trolls are going to have heart attacks!
Well, I for one I'm rooting for John Boyega and Oscar Issac being the ones with the onscreen romance in a future STAR WARS episode.
Man, those trolls are going to implode if that happens.
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