Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggling.

[The Old Mixer]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

I brought this up in another thread recently, but the next-to-last episode of The Rifleman distinctly smells of backdoor pilot. It brings back the character of Neb Jackman, who'd appeared in one previous episode, gives him a new set of colorful family members different from those he'd had in the previous appearance, and spends the episode focused on how they go to a new town to set up shop as the local lawmen. From its style (a clan of comedic yokels), it struck me as being a likely attempt to cash in on The Beverly Hillbillies, which was in its first season that year...particularly as one of the new Jackmans bore a striking resemblance to Jethro.

 

[Drone]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

How many different shows is Greg Berlanti producing these days? Or Shonda Rimes? Or Chuck Lorre?

Exactly. Lots of TV producers do more than one show at once. How many shows did Quinn Martin produce in the '60s?

I would have pointed to Irwin Allen as the template. Ooops, Allen and Roddenberry? That's so wrong!!!

Personally, this was always one of my favorite Trek episodes growing up, and it always felt very STAR TREK-ish to me. You had time-travel, a transporter device, a weapon that harmlessly stuns people, a chirpy female computer, a mission to help humanity advance into the future, and a cool, reserved protagonist in the vein of Mister Spock.

(Albeit with a heavy dose of Sixties Spy-Fi, like THE AVENGERS and THE MAN FROM UNCLE and OUR MAN FLINT, thrown in.)

As I've often argued "Assignment: Earth" is to THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL as "Star Trek" is to FORBIDDEN PLANET. Basically sixties TV shows inspired in part by the classic SF movies of the previous decade, which gave them a similar feel.

I always felt cheated that we never got to see the further adventures of Seven, Roberta (and Isis), which is probably why I wasted no time bringing them back in the novels, once I got my foot in the door . ..

(In fact, "The Return of Gary Seven" was the very first idea I pitched to Pocket Books years ago, although I ended up writing a few other books first, just because DS9 and VOYAGER books were needed more urgently back then.)

I've asked a few times, but gotten no responses as of yet. What was the reason given that it wasn't picked up? Or is there not much distinction officially provided when pilots get the thumbs down, usually just a few generic reasons (wouldn't fit in with schedule, leads not dynamic enough, not compelling enough as written, etc.)?

well the 70's was ripe with it,
Love American Style gave us Happy Days, which gave us both, Laverne and Shirley, Morkl and Mindy and Joanie love Chachi

Mary Tyler Moore gave us both Rhoda and Lou Grant (which was a total change of character for Ed Asner)

All in the Familiy gave us both the Jefferson's (which gave us Checking in ) and Maude, which gave Good Times.

Threes Company gave us the ill fated Ropers and Jack's place

Hell the Norman Learvese is HUGE

Six Million Dollar Man gave us the Bionic Woman

I wasn't aware, or maybe I've just forgotten, of the genesis of Happy Days. Now, I did watch LAS, certainly not religiously(I wasn't exactly in the age demographic), but I was under the impression that all of the episodes were set in the contemporary time frame. I've taken a little look around, but haven't found a reference that addresses the issue, at least as of yet, but I'm just wondering if that was the only one produced in the series that took place in the past. If so, that must have struck the viewers as a bit odd, though the consequences were obviously positive.

Anyone know the answer to this?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

The LAS/Happy Days connection isn't quite that simple. The pilot of Happy Days was originally filmed as an actual series pilot, which was rejected and used as an episode of Love, American Style instead.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

Even THE TWILIGHT ZONE tried the backdoor pilot thing once, with an episode about a bumbling guardian angel that Rod Serling hoped to turn into a series. "Cavender is Coming."

 

[Christopher]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

I've asked a few times, but gotten no responses as of yet. What was the reason given that it wasn't picked up? Or is there not much distinction officially provided when pilots get the thumbs down, usually just a few generic reasons (wouldn't fit in with schedule, leads not dynamic enough, not compelling enough as written, etc.)?

Probably because it just wasn't very good. There was potential to the premise, I thought, but the original pilot script was pretty terrible -- it read like a sitcom but wasn't funny -- and the aired episode was trying to be both Star Trek and Assignment: Earth and thus wasn't particularly good at being either.

As I mentioned, Roddenberry basically reworked the premise into The Questor Tapes. That was about an android with a male sidekick rather than a superhuman with a female sidekick, but the idea of an advanced, logical being using alien knowledge and technology to subtly, secretly guide humanity toward a better path was the same. He actually got a series pickup for that one, but the network wanted to turn it into a Fugitive clone -- getting rid of the human partner, ignoring the movie's ending where Questor found the answers about his origin and his mission, leaving out the guiding-humanity angle (which some network suit considered blasphemous or something), and just having Questor be on the run from government agents. Roddenberry refused to water the concept down to that extent and shut down the project himself.

The LAS/Happy Days connection isn't quite that simple. The pilot of Happy Days was originally filmed as an actual series pilot, which was rejected and used as an episode of Love, American Style instead.

The advantage of anthology series was that they could be a dumping ground for rejected pilots. Roddenberry's 333 Montgomery Street pilot was aired on one such anthology series.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

As stated, pilots are often rejected for a wide variety of reasons. And it's not like STAR TREK had been a huge success for NBC, so they probably weren't dying for another sci-fi show from Roddenberry.

Also, as I understand it, Teri Garr wasn't too keen on doing the series anyway, so they might have ended up recasting Robert Lincoln--or replaced her with a similar character, the same way Kirk replaced Pike when Jeffrey Hunter chose to move on and focus on other projects.

 

[Drone]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

The LAS/Happy Days connection isn't quite that simple. The pilot of Happy Days was originally filmed as an actual series pilot, which was rejected and used as an episode of Love, American Style instead.

OK, but the question still remains as to if any other LAS episodes were set in a previous era, if anyone's aware.

I've asked a few times, but gotten no responses as of yet. What was the reason given that it wasn't picked up? Or is there not much distinction officially provided when pilots get the thumbs down, usually just a few generic reasons (wouldn't fit in with schedule, leads not dynamic enough, not compelling enough as written, etc.)?

Probably because it just wasn't very good. There was potential to the premise, I thought, but the original pilot script was pretty terrible -- it read like a sitcom but wasn't funny -- and the aired episode was trying to be both Star Trek and Assignment: Earth and thus wasn't particularly good at being either.

I guess I would have hoped that the winning dynamic between the leads might have given it a second chance with a more coherent and better written plot as you've pegged it, but perhaps the former aspect just might not have bowled the execs over to such a significant extent. I think I sort of saw their interaction as comparable to Peggy Maxwell and her various bosses on The Name of the Game, which was one of the real appealing selling points of that fine program, just a few scant months away from its debut.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

As I recall, LAS episodes were usually set in contemporary times, the Happy Days pilot was an exception. Most LAS episodes seemed to built around popular concepts of the era.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

As I recall, LAS episodes were usually set in contemporary times, the Happy Days pilot was an exception. Most LAS episodes seemed to built around popular concepts of the era.

Specifically the sexual revolution . . .

 

[FormerLurker]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

There was one other spinoff from Happy Days that made it to series, though it didn't last long. In the episode Chachi Sells His Soul they introduced the character of the angel Random, who turned out to be popular enough to get his own series the next season called Out of the Blue. It only lasted half a season according to IMDb, probably because the writing wasn't that good.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

I've no recollection of that one.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

As I recall, LAS episodes were usually set in contemporary times, the Happy Days pilot was an exception. Most LAS episodes seemed to built around popular concepts of the era.

No, Laverne and Shirley was set in the same Nostalgia Late 50s/early 60s that Happy Days was. Maybe it advanced in time a bit faster than Happy Days. I mean, they kiss a '64 Beatles poster in the opening credits, once the show moved to California. And there was an episode where Laverne had a job testing gravity boots for the moon program, something that ten-year-old me found too stupid to keep watching.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

Just popping in to give my two cents:

A few posters mentioned Doctor Who and its spinoff Torchwood, and that Torchwood didn't have much influence on Doctor Who. Also, posters brought up that some shows usually have a different feel than the show they're spun off.

Even though Torchwood had a more violent and serious tone than Doctor Who, there were one or two (or more) crossovers between the shows. Even the lighter spinoff Sarah Jane Adventures had a crossover or two (I think it was two since I remember David Tennant and Matt Smith in different episodes).

I'm sure the hypothetical Assignment: Earth could crossover with Trek. Of course, I'm not sure how frequent crossovers were back in the late 1960s/early 1970s. I am aware of spinoff after spinoff (e.g. Mary Tyler Moore->Rhoda->Lou Grant and probably one or two I forgot. Not too mention, The Six Million Dollar Man->The Bionic Woman).

 

[Maurice]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

As I recall, LAS episodes were usually set in contemporary times, the Happy Days pilot was an exception. Most LAS episodes seemed to built around popular concepts of the era.

No, Laverne and Shirley was set in the same Nostalgia Late 50s/early 60s that Happy Days was. Maybe it advanced in time a bit faster than Happy Days. I mean, they kiss a '64 Beatles poster in the opening credits, once the show moved to California. And there was an episode where Laverne had a job testing gravity boots for the moon program, something that ten-year-old me found too stupid to keep watching.

I think there's some confusion here because LAS could be short for Love American Style and Laverne and Shirley. I believe Nebusj meant the former.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

And there was an episode where Laverne had a job testing gravity boots for the moon program, something that ten-year-old me found too stupid to keep watching.

That should be on the tombstone of every Garry Marshall TV series.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

In the episode Chachi Sells His Soul they introduced the character of the angel Random, who turned out to be popular enough to get his own series the next season called Out of the Blue.

Not exactly. Actually the premiere of Out of the Blue aired nine days before "Chachi Sells His Soul." As Poobala's Crossovers & Spin-Offs Page explains:

The Happy Days episode featuring Random gets shot. Part of the point of the episode is to try out the Random character and see if he works before they went and developed a whole show for him. Apparently the suits who make the decisions on these things liked the episode and started shooting Out Of The Blue before the episode even aired. That way, when the new season started they could show the Happy Days episode to introduce the character and then, BAM, immediately roll him right into his new show with, hopefully, a built in audience. Poifect!
Only that ain't what ended up happening. As it turned out, due to the vagaries of scheduling, Out Of The Blue ended up debuting BEFORE the Happy Days episode aired. So the plan was to start Random on Happy Days in a single episode and then spin him off ala Mork but in terms of the airing schedule since he appear first on his own show and then on Happy Days it makes it more of an odd crossover.

I think I vaguely remember seeing the series premiere, then seeing the Happy Days episode the following week and realizing it was meant to come first.

So the Random character's popularity had nothing to do with it. It was purely a case of the producers and the network suits trying to copy Mork and Mindy -- not only the fantasy premise of the show itself, but the mechanics of how the show had started, with an initial Happy Days guest appearance as a trial run. (Mork actually appeared in the pilot of Out of the Blue, just as Fonzie and Laverne had appeared in the pilot of Mork and Mindy.) They were so eager to get a Mork clone on the air that they didn't bother to wait for audience reaction, just decided "Ehh, that's close enough, start filming and get it on the air ASAP!" Which is probably why it bombed after four months.

So Mork and Mindy was an example of an unplanned spinoff -- a one-shot guest character proved popular enough to get his own show (and the original "It was all a dream" ending of his Happy Days debut was reshot for reruns to confirm that Mork was real). But "Chachi Sells His Soul" was very much a backdoor pilot, an episode created as a trial run for a series the producers already planned to make, and which persuaded the network to give the go-ahead for the series.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

As I recall, LAS episodes were usually set in contemporary times, the Happy Days pilot was an exception. Most LAS episodes seemed to built around popular concepts of the era.

No, Laverne and Shirley was set in the same Nostalgia Late 50s/early 60s that Happy Days was. Maybe it advanced in time a bit faster than Happy Days. I mean, they kiss a '64 Beatles poster in the opening credits, once the show moved to California. And there was an episode where Laverne had a job testing gravity boots for the moon program, something that ten-year-old me found too stupid to keep watching.

I think there's some confusion here because LAS could be short for Love American Style and Laverne and Shirley. I believe Nebusj meant the former.

I meant Love American Style. Thought the context would be obvious and totally forgot Laverne and Shirley could use the same abbreviation

But lets face it, some of the hairstyles in later episodes of Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley were right out of the 70s and not the 50s or early 60s.

 

[Alter Ego]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

SEVEN: What else do your record tapes show?
KIRK: I'm afraid we can't reveal everything we know, Mister Seven.
SPOCK: Captain, we could say that Mister Seven and Miss Lincoln have some interesting experiences in store for them.
KIRK: Yes, I think we could say that. Two to beam up, Scotty.
SPOCK: Live long and prosper, Mister Seven.
KIRK: And the same to you, Miss Lincoln. Energise.

The final lines make it clear that there was no intention of Trek cameos in what would have been future episodes of Gary 7's show. It ends with a sort of send off to Gary and Terri Garr so not a spin-off at all. Spin-offs usually feature characters from the source series making the occasional appearance at least until the new show is up and running and then they may only visit occasionally after that. Take Frasier for example.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

The final lines make it clear that there was no intention of Trek cameos in what would have been future episodes of Gary 7's show. It ends with a sort of send off to Gary and Terri Garr so not a spin-off at all. Spin-offs usually feature characters from the source series making the occasional appearance at least until the new show is up and running and then they may only visit occasionally after that. Take Frasier for example.

That doesn't follow. Yes, guest appearances like that are a frequent practice to help draw an audience to a spin-off, but it makes no sense to treat that as a make-or-break defining feature of the term. Any show that is treated as an outgrowth of a pre-existing show is a spin-off, regardless of how frequently or infrequently character crossovers may occur. The crossovers are helpful, but optional. Heck, you yourself say they only do it "usually," not always. (For instance, none of Ed Asner's Mary Tyler Moore co-stars ever made a guest appearance on Lou Grant, with the exception of the minor character of Mary's aunt that Lou once had a fling with, but that's universally recognized as a spin-off.)

So, yes, if A:E had gone to series, it absolutely would have been considered a spin-off, with or without Trek crossovers. It would have functionally been a separate show, but it would still be a spin-off by origin.

 

[E-DUB]

Re: Gary Seven - Why try create new series when current one is struggl

I imagine that calling the cat ISIS wouldn't go over too big these days though.

As for "back door pilots", I remember episodes of both "Magnum P.I" and "Married with Children" being used for that purpose.