Complaints (Spoilers)

[JRoss]

Specifically, the complaints that others are throwing around.

My only complaints about the film were Snoke's appearance, the fact that we didn't really get new music and not enough Captain Phasma.

I'm puzzled about why I keep seeing people complain about Rey becoming powerful in the force after such a short time. I'm assuming that these people weren't paying attention to the fact that Luke basically completed Jedi training in the course of maybe a couple days. Watch ESB again. There seems to be almost no time that passes. After that he's leaping and dueling like a boss.

The fact that she beat Kylo Ren seems to bother some people. I don't see a problem there, either. Kylo was seriously wounded to begin with, and emotionally unstable. She found her focus and was in better shape.

Speaking of that, I've heard complaints about how Kylo didn't stop Chewbacca's shot when he did stop Poe's shot earlier in the film. That one's easy. Chewie's caster is shown to be much more powerful than your standard blaster when Han tries it out. Also, Kylo was a little distracted emotionally.

 

[shapeshifter]

Uh, right now I am listening to a track off TFA soundtrack entitled: "SNOKE", so no to that one.

 

[Kor]

The leitmotifs for Rey and Kylo were also new.

Kor

 

[DarKush]

Specifically, the complaints that others are throwing around.

My only complaints about the film were Snoke's appearance, the fact that we didn't really get new music and not enough Captain Phasma.

I'm puzzled about why I keep seeing people complain about Rey becoming powerful in the force after such a short time. I'm assuming that these people weren't paying attention to the fact that Luke basically completed Jedi training in the course of maybe a couple days. Watch ESB again. There seems to be almost no time that passes. After that he's leaping and dueling like a boss.

The fact that she beat Kylo Ren seems to bother some people. I don't see a problem there, either. Kylo was seriously wounded to begin with, and emotionally unstable. She found her focus and was in better shape.

Speaking of that, I've heard complaints about how Kylo didn't stop Chewbacca's shot when he did stop Poe's shot earlier in the film. That one's easy. Chewie's caster is shown to be much more powerful than your standard blaster when Han tries it out. Also, Kylo was a little distracted emotionally.

Regarding Luke he had some training from Obi Wan, not much, but some in ANH. He also had Obi Wan's spirit counsel at the end of ANH and in TESB. From what we've seen so far Rey didn't have any training. I've read that it's implied, but I didn't see it. So while both Rey and Luke are very powerful in The Force, it took a while for Luke to get there.

I mean Yoda didn't complete his training in TESB. Luke ran off to help his friends (that dreaded attachment thing the Jedi warn about), and by the time he got back in ROTJ to complete his training Yoda was on his way out. That being there was a change from TESB to ROTJ for Luke. He was more powerful or assured. He had more Force moves, like the Force choke. So I wonder if he self-trained or something between those films? Maybe he went back to train with Yoda between TESB and before ROTJ, and then returned afterward?

Though I have to wonder too how much Lucas had fleshed out the proper amount of training a Jedi needed in the OT? I mean we are now looking and some judging Rey and trying to now compare Luke to how the prequel Jedi trained, where we see it took years of training, maybe decades before a Jedi achieved Knighthood. Back in the OT I don't know if they had thought things out that much. But in any event, we did see Luke get some training and so far haven't seen Rey get any training. Now that might happen via flashbacks in the next film and that will likely silence much griping. But that's years off so it's going to leave people arguing and speculating and so forth.

For me I thought it was stretching things for Rey to quickly learn the Jedi Mind Trick (yes it took her a couple tries to make it work) and then to actually beat Kylo Ren in a duel. Luke didn't even have a lightsaber fight in ANH. Lost in TESB and won in ROTJ. Rey already has one win on her belt and will likely add more, now that she will probably be trained by Luke.

As I've said before on other threads I think it makes Ren less threatening. He was set up to be this bad ass and he got owned-injured or not-in his first major lightsaber duel. So far we haven't seen that in Star Wars. With TFA being so reverential for past Star Wars I wish they had kept the bad ass villain thing intact. In the other films, Maul killed Qui Gonn, and though Padawan Obi-Wan took him out-perhaps due to Maul's arrogance more than Obi-Wan's skill, Qui Gonn had said Obi-Wan was basically ready to be a Knight anyway. Anakin's first major duel against Darth Tyranus, he lost.

I also wasn't impressed by Snoke. Didn't like the name going into it. However seeing the character they designed the name could fit. But I wasn't impressed and I thought the gigantic hologram was a bit comical.

I agree with you about Phasma. I think they could've had her at least put up a fight.

 

[JRoss]

Uh, right now I am listening to a track off TFA soundtrack entitled: "SNOKE", so no to that one.

That's true, but it was derivative of Palpatine's music in RotS. We didn't get something new and gripping on the order of The Imperial March, Duel of the Fates, the music from the rebel celebration or Luke's theme (the force' theme? You know, da, da, da, da da, da, da, da da, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duhhhhh, that plays at wistful moments).

 

[Ithekro]

Even Phasma would have heard about Han Solo and Chewbacca. You don't mess with those two in an Imperial-like complex. It doesn't end well for the Imperials.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Uh, right now I am listening to a track off TFA soundtrack entitled: "SNOKE", so no to that one.

That's true, but it was derivative of Palpatine's music in RotS. We didn't get something new and gripping on the order of The Imperial March, Duel of the Fates, the music from the rebel celebration or Luke's theme (the force' theme? You know, da, da, da, da da, da, da, da da, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duhhhhh, that plays at wistful moments).

Yes, the thematic material on TFA is more subtle ... but to say, "we didn't really get new music" is hyperbolic, at best. There are themes for Rey (handily the best on the album), Finn, Poe, the Resistance, and Ren has two different motifs.

 

[JRoss]

I'll concede that I didn't sufficiently articulate my complaint. I should have written it as dissatisfaction with the new music. While serviceable, it didn't knock me off my feet.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Fair enough. Though, I'd encourage listening to the score on its own a few times. It really has grown on me over the past few days, especially as I have become more familiar with the themes, how they are developed and used, and integrated with the older material.

 

[bbjeg]

Apart from wanting R2 to have had a bigger role, no complaints here.

 

[O'Dib]

She could become jedi-like quickly because:

1. She's probably Luke's daugher who was a youngling (I assume that means Jedi kid in training) at the time of the last purge and subsequently had to be given away to be raised on a desolate planet. Leia's behavior towards her might confirm this. Though, on the other hand, Ben doesn't seem that much older than she is?

2. There's been an Awakening.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I'm puzzled about why I keep seeing people complain about Rey becoming powerful in the force after such a short time. I'm assuming that these people weren't paying attention to the fact that Luke basically completed Jedi training in the course of maybe a couple days. Watch ESB again. There seems to be almost no time that passes. After that he's leaping and dueling like a boss.

As someone above also pointed out, he'd already had some instruction from Obi-Wan prior to that (though that was also only a for a short time). Also there were three years between IV and V in which he could have practiced some things on his own. Even if he didn't need extensive training over a long period of time, he at least needed some, and his powers didn't come to him all at once within a few minutes; he had to struggle at development and control of them at least a bit. Rey had absolutely none whatsoever so far as we saw or were told. Not one hour from anyone. I can accept it, but it did strike me as coming out of nowhere rather than being "earned" (from a dramatic standpoint; not that I felt the character was unworthy or anything). Maybe the psychic connection to the lightsaber and Ren's digging around in her head helped somehow, but there could have at least been a line to that effect to make it clear. (Unless there was and I missed it; I've only seen it once so far.)

She could become jedi-like quickly because:

1. She's probably Luke's daugher who was a youngling (I assume that means Jedi kid in training) at the time of the last purge and subsequently had to be given away to be raised on a desolate planet.

If something like that is revealed in an upcoming movie it will certainly make a lot more sense in retrospect, but that doesn't stop it from being a bit of a WTF moment from the perspective of watching the movie that's out now.

Just to be clear though, I loved Daisy Ridley's performance and character by and large, aside from this bit.

 

[Ithekro]

Ben was born more or less a year after Endor. Rey seems to have been born about eleven years after Endor. So Ben is ten years older than Rey.

After Ren's failed mind probe, he talks with Snoke and even mentions that Rey is more powerful than she realizes. That is about when she tries the mind trick for the first time if I recall.

 

[theenglish]

She could become jedi-like quickly because:

1. She's probably Luke's daugher who was a youngling (I assume that means Jedi kid in training) at the time of the last purge and subsequently had to be given away to be raised on a desolate planet. Leia's behavior towards her might confirm this. Though, on the other hand, Ben doesn't seem that much older than she is?

2. There's been an Awakening.

I think there is something to point number two and it probably ties in with Luke's quest for the first jedi temple. Something has happened with the force to allow those with little training to wield vast power that would have previously required more discipline. Kylo Ren is the first example we see, seeming to be more powerful at the beginning than he is ultimately revealed to be. Rey also seems to develop abilities quickly that are obviously beyond her training.

I am wondering if something has happened, similar to what happened in the last episode of Buffy, that has awakened the force powers in force strong individuals. Luke knows this and has stopped training jedi, not just because of what happened with Ben Solo, but because he knows that undisciplined force users are an even greater threat to the galaxy.

 

[Trekkin]

Wait a minute - how exactly did Luke supposedly get any training between IV and V? There's literally no one to train him until he meets Yoda, and he makes out that Obi Wan appearing is a new thing that even he's iffy about believing.

Obi Wan and Yoda's comments make out he hasn't done any training at all, but he can still use telekinesis, psychic ability, talk to ghosts, and fight with a lightsaber.

I don't really see how Yoda could have taught him the mind trick he uses in VI either. Unless Dagobah has a weak-minded population we never see.

 

[Ithekro]

Skywalkers are that good, or natural with the Force.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Wait a minute - how exactly did Luke supposedly get any training between IV and V? There's literally no one to train him until he meets Yoda, and he makes out that Obi Wan appearing is a new thing that even he's iffy about believing.

I didn't say he got training from someone else in the period between films, I said he had time to practice on his own what Obi-Wan had already taught him in IV (which I agree couldn't have been tons, but certainly more than nothing at all). His training began with Ben in IV and continued with Yoda in V.

And although I hadn't been thinking of it, now that you mention it, even if actually seeing Ben's ghost was a new thing for Luke in V, he was clearly hearing his voice and receiving guidance from his spirit already by the end of IV.

 

[MacLeod]

Specifically, the complaints that others are throwing around.

My only complaints about the film were Snoke's appearance, the fact that we didn't really get new music and not enough Captain Phasma.

I'm puzzled about why I keep seeing people complain about Rey becoming powerful in the force after such a short time. I'm assuming that these people weren't paying attention to the fact that Luke basically completed Jedi training in the course of maybe a couple days. Watch ESB again. There seems to be almost no time that passes. After that he's leaping and dueling like a boss.

The Falcon could have taken weeks or months to get to Bespin, Vadar wanted to set a trap to catch Luke so there was no point in intercepting the Falcon on route.

 

[theenglish]

Wait a minute - how exactly did Luke supposedly get any training between IV and V? There's literally no one to train him until he meets Yoda, and he makes out that Obi Wan appearing is a new thing that even he's iffy about believing.

Obi Wan and Yoda's comments make out he hasn't done any training at all, but he can still use telekinesis, psychic ability, talk to ghosts, and fight with a lightsaber.

I don't really see how Yoda could have taught him the mind trick he uses in VI either. Unless Dagobah has a weak-minded population we never see.

Luke is largely self-taught regarding the actual powers he uses. Yoda was needed to teach discipline more than anything.

 

[bbjeg]

Skywalkers are that good, or natural with the Force.

Yeah. Anakin was flying pod racers as a kid, Luke made that one in a million thermal port shot, and Leia sensed Luke in TESB without much training (if any) at all.