Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)

[Maurice]

The whole attack on the Starkiller Base was just flat. In fact, the whole space-fighter thing was tired and it didn't add anything. It was bloodless in an even worse way than the dogfights about the Death Star II in ROTJ were.

The brilliance of the climax of the original Star Wars is that everything in the last 10 minutes builds to that climactic KA-BOOM. The situation gets worse and worse and we're right there with the pilots. Here, as in ROTJ, the intercutting between all these scenes makes it impossible to get involved in the dogfights. In fact, if anything, we see so little of the pilots that the whole battle feels very very tiny.

 

[davejames]

Hmm, a bit unsure what score to give this. The movie had a ton of really cool and fun and iconic moments in it (the first appearance and action sequence with the Falcon, the lightsaber battle between Kylo and Rey, and Luke's appearance at the end being the biggest highlights for me), and I absolutely loved the new characters and Kylo Ren as the villain......

But the movie also seemed to drag in a few too many places as well (which was really surprising to me given the director), and everything involving the superweapon in the second half did feel awfully tired and familiar. I don't think it's fair to call the entire movie a recycling of ANH, but all the Starkiller Base stuff at the end certainly felt that way.

That said though, I really do think this is a movie I'll love and enjoy a lot more on subsequent viewings, now that the years and years of crazy anticipation have settled down and I can enjoy the story for what it is (and yes, I realize that's also what people said about the prequels, but in this case I think it actually applies).

 

[Tosk]

The whole attack on the Starkiller Base was just flat. In fact, the whole space-fighter thing was tired and it didn't add anything.

I agree. I was on board for the whole film, despite the obvious retreading of Ep4, but the attack on the base was very flat for me. "Oh dear, we have to blow up another one." they all say and then go do it with very little effort, and no feeling of it being anything but a fait accompli. As in Ep6, the drama of the lasersword fight is more appealing than the mechanics of the attack on a big ball. At least with Ep6 though, there was a sense of danger to the rebels, that maybe they wouldn't be able to pull it off.

Also, apart from the "bigger is cooler!" thing that Abrams always does, I find myself thinking that the Death Star remains a better, more effective, and scarier mega-weapon than Starkiller Base.

 

[davejames]

To me Starkiller Base felt like more of a distraction than anything else, and something that got in the way of the much more interesting story involving Rey, Finn and the mystery of the missing Luke.

And the story already had a strong enough threat in Kylo Ren and the First Order's pursuit of the good guys, so why JJ and Kasdan felt the need to insert yet another superweapon in the second half I have no idea.

It felt to me about as pointless and unnecessary as if Lucas had squeezed another Death Star into ESB.

 

[FPAlpha]

Pretty much nailed it (apart from Rey's family, that's still unknown, my bet is that she's Luke's daughter).

I still don't get why people are so gushing over this movie, the story fails on all levels and if it were not for the new characters except Kylo Ren it would have been a desaster. If so it's just mediocre when it should be brilliant.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Who saw it in 3D, thoughts?

I did, in IMAX 3D. It's the better format to see it in.

You just wait until people start banging on about the glory days of the prequel trilogy and Jar Jar is retrospectively rehabilitated !

Oh, that day will come.

 

[MacLeod]

As for why they needed a complete map to find Luke. If we go back to ANH we have this line from Han

Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

The Map also had a red line on it, which could represent a Hyperspace route which was new as the Planet Luke picked was far off the main routes.

 

[Cutter John]

Imagine, a Star Wars movie where we're more fascinated by the characters than the fancy SFX.

 

[Phily B]

As for why they needed a complete map to find Luke. If we go back to ANH we have this line from Han

Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

The Map also had a red line on it, which could represent a Hyperspace route which was new as the Planet Luke picked was far off the main routes.

The problem is Star Wars tech is so weird, they seem to have super fast light speed and giant ships but scientifically they seem kind of backwards.

 

[MacLeod]

As for why they needed a complete map to find Luke. If we go back to ANH we have this line from Han

Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

The Map also had a red line on it, which could represent a Hyperspace route which was new as the Planet Luke picked was far off the main routes.

The problem is Star Wars tech is so weird, they seem to have super fast light speed and giant ships but scientifically they seem kind of backwards.

Well SW is more towards the fantasy side of the genre rather than the fiction side. But I was merely postulating an idea as for why they needed a map using what scant information we have on how hyperspace travel works in the SW universe.

 

[Phily B]

As for why they needed a complete map to find Luke. If we go back to ANH we have this line from Han

Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

The Map also had a red line on it, which could represent a Hyperspace route which was new as the Planet Luke picked was far off the main routes.

The problem is Star Wars tech is so weird, they seem to have super fast light speed and giant ships but scientifically they seem kind of backwards.

Well SW is more towards the fantasy side of the genre rather than the fiction side. But I was merely postulating an idea as for why they needed a map using what scant information we have on how hyperspace travel works in the SW universe.

No I agree just people complaining about it seem to think they have a Star Trek understanding of the universe when the Star Wars universe still has an outer rim.

 

[Venardhi]

I really enjoyed it. I need to see it again to really get my head around it but there were a few moments that bothered me:

Starkiller base was very badly handled as a storytelling element. I almost think it would have been best to open the film with Hux's Hitler speech and the destruction of the new capitol. Then have them recharging it throughout the rest of the film, taking days rather than 15 minutes but giving us a clear timetable for its necessary destruction.

JJ Abrams seems to have crafted an implausibly convenient tiny solar system for this whole film to take place in. Since every planet seemed to be able to watch the capitol and its moons/nearby worlds blow up they must have all been closer together than we are to our closest planetary neighbors. (this kind of shit annoys the hell out of me)

I'm still not clear if Finn is force-sensitive or not.

Kylo/Ben's struggle could have been sold infinitely better with two lines and a few seconds. Have him hand the saber to Han and clearly insinuate that he needs his father to kill him because he knows he doesn't have the strength to walk back from the path he is on. Having Han refuse would further confirm to his twisted mind that the light side is inherently weaker and give him the push he needed to kill him.

For all his obfuscation and mysteries, JJ showed very clearly in the trailers and other promotional material that Poe would be back, why bother spending 2/3 of the movie pretending he died?

The ending was about as underwhelming as could be. Long cross-fading shots of Rey climbing a mountain and then more overlong shots of her and Luke looking at each other from across the top of it. At least give him a wry line to button it closed with.

I don't remember a single new theme. Hopefully the score will shine more on repeated viewing.

It just isn't a stand-alone film. Unlike Episode IV, where the history and influential events and characters were clearly important and intriguing but only ancillary to the immediate story (Clone Wars, Senate, Emperor, Luke's Father, etc.), this story is full of so many unknowns that seem designed purely to keep us guessing rather than to make the universe feel bigger than what the lens of the camera is showing us.

Overall, first viewing only, I'd put it above the prequel trilogy but far too incomplete a story to be held in the same esteem I feel for the OT.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

For all his obfuscation and mysteries, JJ showed very clearly in the trailers and other promotional material that Poe would be back, why bother spending 2/3 of the movie pretending he died?

Then he botched the reveal that Poe was still alive by showing the audience -- but not his POV characters -- that Poe was piloting one of the starfighters. The audience would have shared in Finn's surprise that Poe was alive if Abrams had shown us other X-Wing pilots during the counterattack instead of Poe, so that when Finn and BB-8 see him back at the base the audience and the characters discover Poe is alive simultaneously.

 

[DWF]

As for why they needed a complete map to find Luke. If we go back to ANH we have this line from Han

Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

The Map also had a red line on it, which could represent a Hyperspace route which was new as the Planet Luke picked was far off the main routes.

My problem with the map why it exists in the first place, if Luke didn't want to be found why'd he leave a map? Adn really all you need is a destination, a good pilot and a computer could find way to the planet, that is no doubt how Luke got there in the first place.

 

[Phily B]

For all his obfuscation and mysteries, JJ showed very clearly in the trailers and other promotional material that Poe would be back, why bother spending 2/3 of the movie pretending he died?

Then he botched the reveal that Poe was still alive by showing the audience -- but not his POV characters -- that Poe was piloting one of the starfighters. The audience would have shared in Finn's surprise that Poe was alive if Abrams had shown us other X-Wing pilots during the counterattack instead of Poe, so that when Finn and BB-8 see him back at the base the audience and the characters discover Poe is alive simultaneously.

Everyone has seen the trailer

 

[Venardhi]

He isn't wrong though. Just hearing his voice over the comlink and seeing the impressive flying/shooting for the sake of giving unawares viewers a "wait a second. . . is that. . . but he died!" moment would have been better storytelling.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

For all his obfuscation and mysteries, JJ showed very clearly in the trailers and other promotional material that Poe would be back, why bother spending 2/3 of the movie pretending he died?

Then he botched the reveal that Poe was still alive by showing the audience -- but not his POV characters -- that Poe was piloting one of the starfighters. The audience would have shared in Finn's surprise that Poe was alive if Abrams had shown us other X-Wing pilots during the counterattack instead of Poe, so that when Finn and BB-8 see him back at the base the audience and the characters discover Poe is alive simultaneously.

Everyone has seen the trailer

You'd be surprised. I work in a geeky office, and yet I have coworkers who haven't seen the trailers, or maybe they've only seen the first teaser. One of my coworkers had only seen the original Star Wars film and didn't know anything like "Luke, I am your father" or that Luke and Leia were siblings, so when we went as a group together to see the film Thursday night there was some fairly basic Star Wars knowledge she didn't know.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I really enjoyed it. I need to see it again to really get my head around it but there were a few moments that bothered me:

Starkiller base was very badly handled as a storytelling element. I almost think it would have been best to open the film with Hux's Hitler speech and the destruction of the new capitol. Then have them recharging it throughout the rest of the film, taking days rather than 15 minutes but giving us a clear timetable for its necessary destruction.

JJ Abrams seems to have crafted an implausibly convenient tiny solar system for this whole film to take place in. Since every planet seemed to be able to watch the capitol and its moons/nearby worlds blow up they must have all been closer together than we are to our closest planetary neighbors. (this kind of shit annoys the hell out of me)

I'm still not clear if Finn is force-sensitive or not.

Kylo/Ben's struggle could have been sold infinitely better with two lines and a few seconds. Have him hand the saber to Han and clearly insinuate that he needs his father to kill him because he knows he doesn't have the strength to walk back from the path he is on. Having Han refuse would further confirm to his twisted mind that the light side is inherently weaker and give him the push he needed to kill him.

For all his obfuscation and mysteries, JJ showed very clearly in the trailers and other promotional material that Poe would be back, why bother spending 2/3 of the movie pretending he died?

The ending was about as underwhelming as could be. Long cross-fading shots of Rey climbing a mountain and then more overlong shots of her and Luke looking at each other from across the top of it. At least give him a wry line to button it closed with.

I don't remember a single new theme. Hopefully the score will shine more on repeated viewing.

It just isn't a stand-alone film. Unlike Episode IV, where the history and influential events and characters were clearly important and intriguing but only ancillary to the immediate story (Clone Wars, Senate, Emperor, Luke's Father, etc.), this story is full of so many unknowns that seem designed purely to keep us guessing rather than to make the universe feel bigger than what the lens of the camera is showing us.

Overall, first viewing only, I'd put it above the prequel trilogy but far too incomplete a story to be held in the same esteem I feel for the OT.

I totally agree. The films musical score was not memorable at all. It was to subdued. Also Luke was only in it for 30 seconds? Why promote his character so much if we barely see him? They lost an opportunity for us to see all the original character together again one last time. We never got a Luke and Han reconnect. The two greatest heroes from the OT basically ran away because Ben Solo went bad. Uncharacteristic of our heroes if you ask me. Modern angst and sensitivity felt out place for OT Star Wars characters.
All modern film makers seem to have to do this. I agree the film was better then most of the prequels except for Revenge of the Sith but it couldn't touch the OT. I just rewatched TESP which I haven't seen for years. Its a much better film then TFA. Its seems like all our heroes did never really matter and that victory at he end of ROTJ is just hollow. I mean we got a Abrams version of ANH. Another machine(Starkiller....Yeah JJ we know you got that name from Lucas's original name for Skywalker) that destroys multiple planets(Big deal how is that better? Soon it would be out of range for planets that were further out. I doubt its range was infinite) and a x-wing attack to destroy it. We even give Han the same job of destroying the shields that he had in ROTJ. Geez.

 

[Phily B]

Did they really promote Luke? He was basically the Macguffin of the movie, but they never promoted him in the marketing. It was mostly people asking where he was?

 

[Venardhi]

A lot of those things you mention don't bother me. I liked that the fairy tale ending only lasted so long, that they made mistakes and were paying for them (along with the rest of the galaxy).

And clearly the Starkiller base was designed to move. Finn talks about how it will deplete the star as it charges itself with the suggestion that it has and will move on to another star when that happens.