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Kylo Ren RUINED! [SPOILERS] HELP ME PLEASE

It also makes me wonder why Ren doesn't have that training? Why can he only build a crappy lightsaber? Why is Snoke just now saying I've got to complete his training? And if Ren is relatively so unskilled how did he kill Luke's other students?

Well I think it's probably because Rey was simply much stronger in the force than the students were, and maybe the strongest since Luke-- or otherwise they wouldn't be centering an entire new trilogy around her. ;)

I think TFA did a disservice with how they presented Ren. He starts out badass and then it devolves. He's not someone I fear now, he's more someone I pity. Not like how Vader was presented in the original trilogy (though more Anakin in the prequels), or how Maul was introduced in TPM. Even Dooku was given proper respect in AOTC.
Maybe he's not as fearsome by the end as he was early on, but he still killed freakin Han Solo, so that still makes him pretty darn hateable and villainous in my book.

I don't know DJ.

There's something to be said for Rey and her Force powers. Both Anakin and Luke were extremely powerful with the Force in their respective sagas. That being said they were also overmatched at the beginning of their journeys. Heck, even Lucas didn't put young Anakin against Maul. And Anakin also lost against Dooku the first time out. Lucas also didn't put Luke against Vader in ANH and Luke also lost the first time they fought. Abrams upended that poetry when he had Rey defeat Ren. Now it makes me wonder if there is another more powerful Force user waiting in the wings. I know there's Snoke, and I suspect that he and Luke will go at it in the next film. And perhaps Snoke will kill Luke and set it up for Rey to avenge him. Or Rey and a newly motivated/better trained Ren will go at it in the second film and the third.

Until I see more of Snoke I don't fear Kylo Ren where Rey is concerned. I think she's only going to get better and Ren might too, and he might even defeat her the second time out. It's just that fear is gone now. If I recall Ahsoka took on Grevious in the Clone Wars and while Grevious was a joke in ROTS, I had to respect his reputation as a fearsome Jedi killer so when he faces off against Ahsoka you wonder, how is she going to survive? That's what's missing now between Rey and Ren. She needs a challenge worthy of her. And I think Ren is not it. The total geek and Sith fan in me wants to see Darth Plagueis (Max Von Sydow would've made an awesome Plagueis) or Darth Maul again. Man, Maul vs. Luke for example, now that would be epic.

Killing Han is big no doubt and he'll go down in a villain's hall of fame for that, but it's not just the act. It's how you do it. I mean when you had Maul just slice through Qui Gonn or Anakin about to slaughter the younglings or Anakin going to slaughter the Sandpeople there was a brutality there. I didn't quite get that with Ren killing Han. I know its supposed to play that way, that Ren had made his choice. That he had chosen the dark. However I don't buy that he's fully committed like Maul was already committed and like Anakin did after he swore his allegiance to Palpatine. I also think that Ren's conflict will play a key role in his arc over the course of the new trilogy.
 
I feel it needs to be pointed out that Ren's father is the great Han Solo, his Mother is General Leia, His Uncle is the mythical Luke Skywalker and his grandfather is Darth Vader. Saying he has a lot to live up to is an understatement he cracks under pressure. Every time he messes up it's just a reminder that he's not good enough. He's not a great jedi like his uncle, he's not a great person like his parents, he's not a badass like his grandfather. It eats it up inside that he can't devote himself to either side. He constantly views himself as a failure.

Yeah that's definitely something to consider with Ren and could be very good motivation for him. However I don't think that necessarily makes a compelling villain. Its like Shinzon in a way-a shadow or echo of a great person living in their shadow, trying to outdo them to make a name for himself.
 
Thing is, in a Galaxy with only one fully trained Force user, Ren is basically at Padawan levels...at best.

Ahsoka could kick his butt when she started to train under Anakin.
 
Thing is, in a Galaxy with only one fully trained Force user, Ren is basically at Padawan levels...at best.

Ahsoka could kick his butt when she started to train under Anakin.

I'm not sure we can say that for certain, if you mean that Luke is the only fully trained Force user in the entire galaxy. We don't know the extent of Snoke's powers, though he was powerful enough to bring Kylo Ren to the dark side. I also have to wonder what happened to the Inquisitors from the Rebels cartoon? Maybe some of them are out there. I don't know about the fate of Asajji Ventress or Quinlan Vos (haven't read Dark Disciple but I would like to) and as far as I know we don't know the fate of Darth Maul either.

And how many Jedi that escaped Order 66 might be around, or their children or grandchildren?
 
Luke apparently figured out telekinesis on his own at some point without any training, as shown in the ice cave in ESB.

Shit, he guided those torpedoes into the Death Star like a day after meeting Obi-Wan.
 
I actually liked Kylo Ren as the villain because he wasn't as badass and self-confident yet. He was still torn and drawn to the light side. I think he was supposed to seem kind of immature and insecure.

Now that Han has "helped him" figure out his conflict I suppose he has turned to the dark side completely so I'm expecting him to be more badass in the next movie. It worked for me, that's for sure.
 
I actually liked Kylo Ren as the villain because he wasn't as badass and self-confident yet. He was still torn and drawn to the light side. I think he was supposed to seem kind of immature and insecure.

Yeah I thought that was interesting as well. Usually we've seen characters struggling against the dark side within them, but here was someone who was struggling and uncomfortable with the light side, and acting as if that was the cancer eating away at him and preventing him from fulfilling his destiny.
 
Shit, he guided those torpedoes into the Death Star like a day after meeting Obi-Wan.

No he didn't. The torpedoes did their own guiding.. He simply let the force tell him the correct time to pull the trigger. Just like it told him on the Falcon where the remote would attack. And in both cases he was being guided.
 
In regards to the Force, people need to be trained, but it does seem like there's an "a ha!" moment, one that Obi-Wan alludes to when he says Luke just took his first step into a larger world.
 
Force training is about actually learning tricks. It's more about learning how to listen to something that's already there.
 
There's a communion between the Force user and his/her lightsaber.

No. There's a communion between a Force-user and his/her body. There is nothing mystical about the tool itself.

One thing I thought of in the movie (particularly when Rey got the lightsaber) was "Lightsabers aren't wizard wands!"

Huh? I didn't get that vibe at all. To me it looked like she was using the thing as a piercing weapon once in a while which felt refreshing and new to me.

Ever seen any fencing? ;)
 
The crystal?

Nope.

All fan-theory stuff. Hell, according to the old EU, the crystal in Luke's saber from ROTJ was synthetic.

Some fans seem to think that the saber activates through a Force power even. It's a simple on-off switch. I mean, otherwise non-Force users couldn't activate it, and we saw Han using a saber in Empire.

No, it's a simple device, a tool. That's it. Nothing mystical. The vision Rey got through Luke/Anakin's old saber was because of a Force connection. It could have been a rock, as long an imprent was made on an object through the Force. That's how I saw that scene.
 
No. There's a communion between a Force-user and his/her body. There is nothing mystical about the tool itself.

One thing I thought of in the movie (particularly when Rey got the lightsaber) was "Lightsabers aren't wizard wands!"

Huh? I didn't get that vibe at all. To me it looked like she was using the thing as a piercing weapon once in a while which felt refreshing and new to me.

Ever seen any fencing? ;)

I'm talking about the "the lightsaber has chosen you" type stuff and the end where Kylo Ren and Rey were both pulling for it and it went to her instead of him.

As for using it as a piercing weapon, yeah, I noticed that too. Interestingly, the last person who had that fighting style was Palpatine when he killed three Jedis in three seconds. She obviously wasn't as effective.
 
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