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Why did Majel stop playing Chapel in the movies?

Hi, Jonny. I posted the definition of the word, "ensemble", above. That is what I mean when I use the word, "Ensemble". I don't need any evidence, I just mean what the word is defined as. Maybe you and Maurice and some others are refering to "equal billing"?

And I still love your Avatar!
 
Hi, Jonny. I posted the definition of the word, "ensemble", above. That is what I mean when I use the word, "Ensemble". I don't need any evidence, I just mean what the word is defined as.

Ah. So you're talking about the cast as they have to do with furniture. Got it. ;)

And I still love your Avatar!

Thanks. It doesn't have anything to do with Trek, but I think it's fun. :techman:
 
I'm pretty sure what were speaking of is an "Ensemble cast"

Ensemble cast
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An ensemble cast is made up of cast members in which the principal actors and performers are assigned roughly equal amounts of importance and screen time in a dramatic production.[1][2] In Hollywood, the term has recently begun to be used as a replacement for the old term "all-star cast"; meaning a film with many well-known actors, even if most of them only have minor or supporting roles.
So in the context of a TV show when one says an "ensemble" they mean an ensemble cast. TOS did not have an ensemble cast.
 
Shows what I know. I got my defenition of "Ensemble" from the Dictionary. Glad to always learn new things about the language! Thanks, SK!
 
The point being that behind the scenes, writers & producers were already in the process of thinking about or actually adding significant minority characters that were the true breakthrough examples, given the character's intended status, far beyond the limits (seemingly self imposed) by Star Trek. That's illuminating, since Roddenberry--for all of his "fight for equality" speeches used to sell himself as the TV messiah--could have fought to elevate at least one racial minority character to the featured lead position, instead of being locked in the inherently limited supporting player role.

Again, other producers were already doing that (or were in the production stages of doing so) the same year TOS premiered. What stopped Roddenberry--the Great Crusader of All Things Equal (or so he spent the last 2 1/2 decades of his life telling us) from say, breaking the "country doctor" archetype, and make that featured lead in the form of Dr. McCoy African American, or Japanese?

Some useful context from a book I was leafing through earlier this week:

The shifting climate of 1963 put pressure on producers of television drama and commercials to change their largely lily-white world. There was response but also nimble foot-dragging. The daytime serial remained almost untouched. Progress was more noticeable in other areas. Inclusion of a Negro or two in crowd scenes was becoming standard. Some series went further. The Defenders, often breaking new ground, featured black actor Ossie Davis as a prosecutor. Medical shows occasionally had a black doctor or nurse. The Jackie Gleason program engaged a black dancer--grandaughter of Duke Ellington--for its formerly all-white chorus line. The Ed Sullivan program welcomed Negro acts. East Side/West Side and Mr. Novak used stories about Negroes. But resistance appeared constantly. CBS found two of its southern affiliates refusing to carry an East Side/West Side episode because of its black roles. When a Bonanza episode introduced a black character, General Motors considered withdrawing its commercial--but was dissuaded by NBC.

--Erik Barnouw, Tube of Plenty: The Evolution of American Television (2nd Edition), p.326
 
I may have been better served if I followed that by saying "some of the other players" instead, as I was only referring to Uhura and Sulu.

That speaks to the larger, missed point--the long-in-the-tooth point or complaint about the use of minority characters on TOS, which even a basic understanding of the very nature of 1960s TV leads to only one motive/conclusion: productions used a hierarchy that reduced all except the featured leads in a subordinate position.

Some--under the dreamy "spell" of Star Trek being some glorious, fireworks-in-the-sky rallying cry for all things equality have convinced themselves (along with self-serving statements from supporting players) that some "wrong" had been committed (the BS aimed at Shatner), or that they were not as developed as they should have been, since in their minds, the series was some level playing field for the "Enterprise family."


So, part of my statement was obvious in the diversity they brought to the cast and the other was accurate in the sense of the time that they and Trek went on the air. I have no argument that the examples you provided did give those characters a greater stake in the proceedings. I would point out though, despite their disproportionate relevance, only two of the shows you mentioned, debuted prior to or during the same season as Trek. A difference of a year or two might seem insignificant, but I would argue that any such advantage was important given the widespread cultural ferment occurring at the time and that any program's relevance, however tepidly received at the time, had an exaggerated status as being good enough to at least get its shot on one of the networks, which probably carried as large an imprimatur then as during any period of TV's history.
The move to add minority characters as prominent players was in motion as either bought scripts or in production before Star Trek aired, or even a season old. For example, the Ironside pilot was in production in 1966, with a March 1967 airdate; Irwin Allen was developing Land of the Giants two years before its 1968 debut. The Mod Squad creator Bud Ruskin wrote the pilot for that series in 1960, though it would be another six years before it sold, etc.

The point being that behind the scenes, writers & producers were already in the process of thinking about or actually adding significant minority characters that were the true breakthrough examples, given the character's intended status, far beyond the limits (seemingly self imposed) by Star Trek. That's illuminating, since Roddenberry--for all of his "fight for equality" speeches used to sell himself as the TV messiah--could have fought to elevate at least one racial minority character to the featured lead position, instead of being locked in the inherently limited supporting player role.

Again, other producers were already doing that (or were in the production stages of doing so) the same year TOS premiered. What stopped Roddenberry--the Great Crusader of All Things Equal (or so he spent the last 2 1/2 decades of his life telling us) from say, breaking the "country doctor" archetype, and make that featured lead in the form of Dr. McCoy African American, or Japanese?

Or was it just that Spelling, Allen, and others were more forward thinking than Roddenberry?

Yes, certainly the lead time of the productions you mentioned would mean that the producers probably already had in mind the inclusion of African Americans as featured players at a time very close to the debut of TOS, though I really don't know about the timing of those specific casting decisions. I wouldn't be at all surprised that you are aware of how early in the development process such determinations were made.
Of course, one can also point to the same factor with TOS i.e., how long prior to episode production beginning was Nichols brought on board (I know it wasn't in the summer of '65 as Lloyd Haynes had the role for the second pilot). Of course, such pre-production determinations, even if highly publicized, wouldn't have nearly the impact on the general public as actually seeing these actors in action.

From a network executive's position, it would make sense to all but the most recalcitrant, that the calculus of having minorities take on increasingly important parts was inevitable, even if individually some were personally indifferent to the idea, having not come to the same conclusions just a few short years before. I would have to think that the popularity of Cosby and I Spy, was a major determinant in this change of thought, given the integral nature of his role, which superceded the centrality of any of the latter productions you mentioned previously, save Julia, and the acclaim that was directed specifically at Cosby.

I would claim that none of those subsequent shows generated a critical or popular groundswell for the specific actors/characters that were featured as did I Spy, TOS , and Julia (I'm not sure how much attention Morris received). Some of this obviously was just a function of timing in as which came first, but also as a matter of the actor's charisma and acting chops. While a lot of the published focus on Uhura's significance came as a result of the Kiss, only near the end, I think the very fact of her being the first African American women being shown as a competent and specialized professional doing her job, albeit in only small doses, elevated her stature as being a ground breaker, and in whatever manner it actually occurred, convinced her of the necessity of continuing in the role despite her discouragement of its limited nature, as a point of fact, along with other internal production issues that I won't go into here.


P.S. Well, Harvey presents a much more fact based exegesis of the genesis of this development than my speculative one. Indeed, the book he cites is a critically acclaimed work that I did read in college, so I'll give myself a pass in not remembering and utilizing that as a source in my own comments, as college for me happened so long ago, shrouded in the mists of prehistory. :lol: Oh, and the thought of Irwin Allen as a forward thinker? Well he was notorious as a producer who found it very difficult to edit the multitude of production ideas that were always running through his mind, of having as a trademark the reuse of just about every set design element, often multiple times, and of having as paramount the entertainment quotient of his projects, scientific reality, he felt, not really being any of the audience's true concern. But a social ground breaker, I don't think I see the evidence for that. Maybe he just liked Marshall's assertive performance in Galileo Seven and thought he would be a good fit as the pot stirrer of the command crew.
 
I think the biggest question re Uhura is actually was she actually considered groundbreaking at the time of the show, or is that something that in retrospect because show would not die?

As to Allen casting Don Marshall on Land of the Giants, who can say if Allen even saw "The Galileo Seven"? Between 1966 and 1968 Marshall made 3 appearances on Daktari, 2 episodes of Dragnet 1967, and single shot appearances on Premiere, Ironside, Tarzan, Mr. Terrific, 12 O'Clock High, and Mission: Impossible.
 
I think the biggest question re Uhura is actually was she actually considered groundbreaking at the time of the show, or is that something that in retrospect because show would not die?

As to Allen casting Don Marshall on Land of the Giants, who can say if Allen even saw "The Galileo Seven"? Between 1966 and 1968 Marshall made 3 appearances on Daktari, 2 episodes of Dragnet 1967, and single shot appearances on Premiere, Ironside, Tarzan, Mr. Terrific, 12 O'Clock High, and Mission: Impossible.

I think the former is the operative case in the first matter above. I venture that opinion for the sole, and perhaps overstated, reason of the frequency that she appeared in feature pieces of popular African American oriented publications such as Jet, through the course of the show's run. Maybe as vital a question, is the extent that she drew coverage in mainstream cultural or news periodicals like Life, Look, Time, or Newsweek, the answer to which, unfortunately, I'm unaware of.

On the other matter, I was just idly speculating, and given the resume you cite above, such a further example, even being in the same genre (sort of), would not have necessarily added much to Allen's estimation of Marshall's suitability for the role. Did Allen supposedly have enmity towards Trek, so consequently not have been likely to pay it any attention? I think I understand that the obverse was, in fact, the case.
 
Shows what I know. I got my defenition of "Ensemble" from the Dictionary. Glad to always learn new things about the language! Thanks, SK!

In the lingo of the show business industry, "ensemble cast" is a specific term, indicating more-or-less equal billing and importance for a large group of actors. This doesn't apply to the original Star Trek.

Kor
 
In Hollywood, the term "grip" means something different than the meaning found in a dictionary.

I'm sure many industries have their own vocabulary.
 
"Grip" probably has something to do with the fact that when current is running through the wires, you can't let go.
 
Grips may work with electrical in terms of placing and moving equipment, but they are not exclusive to that. Grips mostly work with the camera and camera equipment. The Gaffer is in charge of the electrical. The Python Wrangler is neither. :)
 
I think the biggest question re Uhura is actually was she actually considered groundbreaking at the time of the show, or is that something that in retrospect because show would not die?

I think a bit of both. Bill Cosby was an equal costar on I, Spy starting in September 1965 on NBC. Diahann Carroll was the star of the NBC series Julia starting in September 1968. Both of those are more significant breakthroughs than the recurring role of Uhura, IMO. They're also a testament as to how committed NBC was to diverse casting, as is borne out by the internal memos published in Inside Star Trek: The Real Story.

As fans, we live in a very Trek-centric world. :lol:

Yes. It's useful to sometimes consider Trek in the context of the larger world. The Dick Van Dyke Show (1961) and Gilligan's Island (1964) both had multiple pilots before Star Trek did.
 
In Hollywood, the term "grip" means something different than the meaning found in a dictionary.

I'm sure many industries have their own vocabulary.

I think I've missed something in where this mini-track came from, but regardless, I feel compelled to point out, rather pedantically I admit, that this definition is actually found in dictionaries, admittedly way down the line in its ordering.
 
I think the biggest question re Uhura is actually was she actually considered groundbreaking at the time of the show, or is that something that in retrospect because show would not die?

I think a bit of both. Bill Cosby was an equal costar on I, Spy starting in September 1965 on NBC. Diahann Carroll was the star of the NBC series Julia starting in September 1968. Both of those are more significant breakthroughs than the recurring role of Uhura, IMO. They're also a testament as to how committed NBC was to diverse casting, as is borne out by the internal memos published in Inside Star Trek: The Real Story.

What would've been interesting is had Roddenberry cast Nichelle Nicholas or another black actress in the role of "Number One" after NBC rejected Barrett in the role.

Or cast someone like Percy Rodriguez as Dr. McCoy.
 
In Hollywood, the term "grip" means something different than the meaning found in a dictionary.

I'm sure many industries have their own vocabulary.

I think I've missed something in where this mini-track came from, but regardless, I feel compelled to point out, rather pedantically I admit, that this definition is actually found in dictionaries, admittedly way down the line in its ordering.

This mini-track started because somebody quoted "The Dictionary" (tm) in their understanding of the word "ensemble." But it behooves us to recognize that specialized fields have particular lingo that doesn't always conform to the primary everyday definitions of such terminology as used by lay persons outside of those industries, even in reference to those particular industries.

Kor
 
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