Trek Returning to TV in 2017!

[fireproof78]

Knight Rider? Not sure it fits there either, unless I'm missing something

What has come to the world?
Wilton Knight personally selected Michael Long to be his son and "the man" for his talking car. It was helpful that there was a cop, who just got shot in his face, well you may remember (or not). I was a big fan as a kid.

Anyway, things like that make it very hard for me to connect to a movie or a series. I saw both movies only once and don't recall now, how that thing went on.

I have not watched Knight Rider in 20 years, so you'll forgive my not remembering. They did film near my grandmother's house once, though.

I see it as nepotism on Pike's part, but it ends up backfiring. I don't have a problem with it, so far as the story actually addresses it later.

Honestly, to me, it is more of a pacing issue. They had to go so fast to get through their story that it felt rushed. Of my issues with Trek 09 pacing is at the top of the list.

Kirk's promotion also doesn't bother me because of field promotions, and all the military science fiction I read. So, for me, I can rationalize it away a little bit easier. Could it have been done better. Absolutely, and heard several proposals to that effect. Does it ruin the film for me? No.

Based on all I've seen, this is my guess for why "Prime Universe" fans tend to reject or not enthusiastic about "NU Trek":

A. Kirk getting promoted from cadet to captain. Without the time space to show gaining experience. Sure it could happen, but it left a weird taste in some fans mouths.

B. Spock seeming to be too emotional, so fast, in both films, like the "Kahhhn!!" scene.

C.Too many explosions, too many action scenes.

D. How the main crew seemed mashed together.

E. Too many storylines being meshed together.

It's not an attack on Nu Trek, just what I've noticed from criticism. And I'll admit, some of them were my first reactions as well.

Mine is mostly C. I like the Kirk who lies about an explosive substance called Corbomite and talks machines into blowing themselves up. Not the one who beams in with no plan and shoots everyone. I think the casting and characterization of Spock is one of the high points of NuTrek.

But also I feel they put zero effort into anybody but Kirk, Spock and Uhura. All they did with Chekov is make fun of his accent and all they did was Sulu was throw in some token sword fights. Too many fan winks.

Scotty is really the only one who suffered that way for me in 09. Sulu was great against Kirk as far as a foil, and later on, in STID, Sulu gets several fantastic scene that show his commitment and resolve.

I say we have a Captain Sulu series.

Kor[/B] pointed out, Kirk is not reaching for anything. He is content sitting on his rear end, apparently causing trouble because is a "repeat offender" and doing nothing with his life, contributing nothing to society. The whole point of GR's vision (especially in TNG and oft repeated in DS9) was that humanity was all about bettering itself. Well, Kirk is not doing that-until Pike challenges him.

Spock faces a similar challenge and Sarek encourages him to be that "child of two worlds" he felt his son could be.

Really, the film is about the importance of fatherhood and its role in shaping people. Before the daggers come out, I think there are strong maternal themes as well, but the impact of fathers cannot be understated.

Do you feel that these opening sequences were done in service of deepening the backstory of characters for an audience that thought they knew everything about them from decades of avid observation, or as seems more plausible IMO, simply depicting never before seen vignettes of Kirk and Spock to most expeditiously give some sense of who they were to the audience that the film was really aimed at, non-Old Trek partisans, who while perhaps familiar with these names, didn't really know much of anything about their personal stories and what made them tick?

Exploring the role of fatherhood and its influence on the grown child is significant and certainly a theme not consistently given its due in popular entertainment, but I think in this case it's problematic to interpret at face value rather than as simple exposition, albeit cleverly chosen, to get the desired cohort of viewers quickly up to speed on the concept of these epic characters that the filmmakers aimed to morph them into, "types" that are conventional plugins for a genre that has historically substituted plausibility and thought for spectacle, glitz, and a surfeit of action (not necessarily adventure) however ludicrously presented.

I don't agree, at all. I think the theme of fatherhood and its importance is right at the forefront of the film. I think that George Kirk's decision to sacrifice his life so that his son might live gives us an example of leadership that we would expect Kirk to become and doesn't.

I think that Sarek's scene with young Spock after the bullies is a similar scene, where we see the impact of fatherly instruction in the face of young impulses. Spock becomes a decorated officer, while Kirk impulsively does whatever he wants (wrecking cars, getting in fights, etc.). Even when Spock gives in to impulse, it is the father figure who steps in and stops it, which Kirk lacks. Kirk's arc really doesn't resolve until STID.

In addition, I think there is a parallelism in Spock and Nero (emotion versus logic) and Kirk and Marcus. Nero is a slave to his passions, bent on vengeance to the point of insanity, which is a reflection of the deep emotional tumult that Vulcans must managed through logic. Marcus presents the possibility of becoming a war-monger, seeing no other possibility but fighting.

In both cases, Kirk and Spock face the real possibility of becoming that dark mirror. The positive influence of the father figure (Pike and Sarek) actually provides the example to become better. In so doing, Kirk begins to fulfill his potential and reach for the Rodenberry ideal.

I think that it is intentional, I think it reflects a commentary on contemporary society, and I still use it as an example of the importance of father figures when discussing psychology.

I don't think it is expository in the sense that it was an info-dump for the sake of getting it out of the way. Father figures are a theme that is woven throughout the two films.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

A Captain Sulu series has been on my mind for years. John Cho's no stranger to TV.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

All trek series took awhile to get their legs...

No. TOS hit the ground running..

Not counting The Cage.

Is this a good time to point out that the spinoffs took time to get fired up because the first season or two were either trying to break new ground (in theory) and/or adhere to what outside visions might have wanted?

 

[fireproof78]

No. TOS hit the ground running..

Not counting The Cage.

Is this a good time to point out that the spinoffs took time to get fired up because the first season or two were either trying to break new ground (in theory) and/or adhere to what outside visions might have wanted?

I believe that the distinction is being made about all Trek series, versus all spin-off series.

Though, even Shatner admitted that Season 2 felt a lot more smooth and professional compared to Season 1.

 

[BillJ]

But they were and still are way too greedy. They would rather be rich than create good Star Trek...

I'd rather be rich too.

 

[fireproof78]

But they were and still are way too greedy. They would rather be rich than create good Star Trek...

I'd rather be rich too.

So did GR.

Really, it's the core problem with Star Trek

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Nobody outside of the hardcore fandom cares about the old universe, certainly not DS9/Voyager stuff. And that amount of backstory ties the writers hands and creates huge continuity issues. The new series will assuredly be set in the JJverse. I was hoping for a straight reboot with a completely new creative team.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I like the Kirk who lies about an explosive substance called Corbomite and talks machines into blowing themselves up. Not the one who beams in with no plan and shoots everyone. I think the casting and characterization of Spock is one of the high points of NuTrek.

In STID, there's a lot of big explosions and gun fights, a number of ship battles and it ends with a starship crashing right into San Francisco.

So if the next movie wants to top this, what would it do?

"300" "the Terminator" "Kill Bill" are among my favorite movies, so I like action. But too many explosions gets boring fast. They become expected and that's bad for entertainment.

It creates the same effect as being bored from watching a slow paced movie with too much talking.

But also I feel they put zero effort into anybody but Kirk, Spock and Uhura. All they did with Chekov is make fun of his accent and all they did was Sulu was throw in some token sword fights. Too many fan winks.

Admiral Marcus was one of my favorites. I wish they kept him.

I see it as nepotism on Pike's part, but it ends up backfiring. I don't have a problem with it, so far as the story actually addresses it later.

Honestly, to me, it is more of a pacing issue. They had to go so fast to get through their story that it felt rushed. Of my issues with Trek 09 pacing is at the top of the list.

Kirk's promotion also doesn't bother me because of field promotions, and all the military science fiction I read. So, for me, I can rationalize it away a little bit easier. Could it have been done better. Absolutely, and heard several proposals to that effect. Does it ruin the film for me? No.

I think this is what might have put some fans off the movie from the start. That premise was just too much get over.

Pacing--that's what I think is one of the main reasons some fans were just turned off of Trek. Everything seems so quickly mashed together.

The 09 movie's storyline is very similar to Starship Troopers. Which one handled it better?

 

[martok2112]

Respectfully, I really wouldn't say there were any space battles in STID.
A battle suggests that both ships are firing at one another.

The Enterprise never fired a single shot in STID. And that's even less than the Enterprise fired in STTMP.

 

[Amaris]

Respectfully, I really wouldn't say there were any space battles in STID.
A battle suggests that both ships are firing at one another.

The Enterprise never fired a single shot in STID. And that's even less than the Enterprise fired in STTMP.

Yeah, that scene was more of a one-sided ass kicking on the Vengeance's part.

 

[RAMA]

All trek series took awhile to get their legs...

No. TOS hit the ground running..

True, but they also had a lot of contradictions that would give trekkies hissy fits today.

Also I think I'd rather have the series finish strong as opposed to fizzle out like TOS season 3. Enterprises best season was it's 4th and it was light years better than TOS season 3.

I think if we want to get an idea of the tone for a modern ST series, you might look at the ST Ongoing comic. I just caught up with it after 8 months.

Thinking about this new series, if they take the adventure quotient of the JJ Treks, less technobabble/exposition (which I believe turned many casual TV watchers off in the early 2000s), and meld it with new techniques and modern sensibilities (though not NuBSG nihilism) it could genuinely surpass STNG as my favorite. I think it almost HAS to have a better first season than the launch of STNG to really keep people's attention since there are way more SF/Fantasy shows than ever, with The Expanse being direct competition.

The main advantage of a series now is that ratings are so much lower for niche TV..Arrow and Flash are bonafide genre successes, and Arrow had a 1 rating this week. Enterprise on it's worst week was 2-3 times better. A new ST show could comfortably have 1.5-3 million viewers and stay on forever.

 

[Yanks]

No. TOS hit the ground running..

Not counting The Cage.

"The Cage" sold TOS as a concept, but not as a series. WNMHGB did sell it as a series and it was a very strong pilot followed by a season that was not only TOS' best but arguably the best and strongest season overall in the entire franchise.

"Taking awhile to get its legs" simply doesn't apply to TOS. In terms of storytelling it was solid and competent from the get-go.

You really can't include TOS in the conversations referring to the spin-offs. By the standards the spin-offs are held to TOS was a failure.

 

[RAMA]

Not counting The Cage.

"The Cage" sold TOS as a concept, but not as a series. WNMHGB did sell it as a series and it was a very strong pilot followed by a season that was not only TOS' best but arguably the best and strongest season overall in the entire franchise.

"Taking awhile to get its legs" simply doesn't apply to TOS. In terms of storytelling it was solid and competent from the get-go.

You really can't include TOS in the conversations referring to the spin-offs. By the standards the spin-offs are held to TOS was a failure.

Certainly true since it had 3 seasons, Enterprise 4 and the others 7.

RAMA

 

[Yanks]

...The main advantage of a series now is that ratings are so much lower for niche TV..Arrow and Flash are bonafide genre successes, and Arrow had a 1 rating this week. Enterprise on it's worst week was 2-3 times better. A new ST show could comfortably have 1.5-3 million viewers and stay on forever.

Interesting.

I wonder what the viewer numbers will have to be for a streamed show?

 

[cooleddie74]

Respectfully, I really wouldn't say there were any space battles in STID.
A battle suggests that both ships are firing at one another.

The Enterprise never fired a single shot in STID. And that's even less than the Enterprise fired in STTMP.

Yeah, that scene was more of a one-sided ass kicking on the Vengeance's part.

Yeah, the Vengeance opened up a can of whoopass on the Enterprise in much the same way the Narada did in the previous film. There was no "battle." Kirk and his crew almost had their asses handed to them on a silver platter and had to find a way to defeat the other ship by less conventional means.

The last space battle we saw in Trek was in 2009.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Which is odd since it started on CBS as a prime time show.

NBC, actually.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yep. NBC, and it was on the network for all three years of its original run.

 

[Squiggy]

Yep. NBC, and it was on the network for all three years of its original run.

It was almost two years.

Using TOS as the metric by which popularity and success is measured isn't the best way to go about doing things.

Really, we have George Lucas to thank just as much as Roddenberry for Star Trek returning in 1979.

 

[RAMA]

Yep. NBC, and it was on the network for all three years of its original run.

It was almost two years.

Using TOS as the metric by which popularity and success is measured isn't the best way to go about doing things.

Really, we have George Lucas to thank just as much as Roddenberry for Star Trek returning in 1979.

I have to quibble with this every time I see it. Star Wars did indeed effect Star Trek, but it would have been come back one way or another, indeed, a Star Trek project had been in the works since 1975. SW did two things: It accelerated STTMP by about a year and gave it a locked in release date, AND two it changed the plan from a TV show or low budget (Planet of Titans/In thy Image) movie to a big budget one.

 

[Squiggy]

Yep. NBC, and it was on the network for all three years of its original run.

It was almost two years.

Using TOS as the metric by which popularity and success is measured isn't the best way to go about doing things.

Really, we have George Lucas to thank just as much as Roddenberry for Star Trek returning in 1979.

I have to quibble with this every time I see it. Star Wars did indeed effect Star Trek, but it would have been come back one way or another, indeed, a Star Trek project had been in the works since 1975. SW did two things: It accelerated STTMP by about a year and gave it a locked in release date, AND two it changed the plan from a TV show or low budget (Planet of Titans/In thy Image) movie to a big budget one.

Which would gone over as well and be remembered as fondly as any other low-budget late-70s scifi.