Deadline reporting new Trek series, what about fan productions?

[JoeZhang]

The technical edge of a major studio is just as pronounced today as it was then; there's a good reason the NuTrek films cost what they did, for example. The benchmark has risen and while I firmly expect Axanar can hit the benchmark of broadcast-worthy Trek from the Nineties, no, I don't remotely believe it can or will compete with big-budget SF in the current era. That's fantasy.

We aren't talking big budget features. CBS isn't going to throw 190 Million at this Series, the way Paramount did for Into Darkness... We are talking about a series that will air on a platform that currently only has 100K or so subscribers.... Even if newly produced Star Trek Content can grow that to 1,000,000 subscribers, the platform would only be bringing in 6,000,000 a month. I can't see CBS green lighting this thing if it costs more than 2 million an episode..

You are thinking about this the wrong way - part of the reason for the existing of this series is marketing and narrative for the network - so the usual rules about audience don't apply in the same way - there will be no straight relationship between audience and budget - partly because its intended as a showcase for the channel - so it's likely to be *higher* than the average original content they produce. You don't have the show that will have the most focus as the test product for your new strategy look cheap.

Moreover - remember that 600,000 (if we take your figure) is the start not the end of the pie - boxsets, direct purchase, resale rights, airing rights etc.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

The technical edge of a major studio is just as pronounced today as it was then; there's a good reason the NuTrek films cost what they did, for example. The benchmark has risen and while I firmly expect Axanar can hit the benchmark of broadcast-worthy Trek from the Nineties, no, I don't remotely believe it can or will compete with big-budget SF in the current era. That's fantasy.

We aren't talking big budget features. CBS isn't going to throw 190 Million at this Series, the way Paramount did for Into Darkness... We are talking about a series that will air on a platform that currently only has 100K or so subscribers.... Even if newly produced Star Trek Content can grow that to 1,000,000 subscribers, the platform would only be bringing in 6,000,000 a month. I can't see CBS green lighting this thing if it costs more than 2 million an episode..

You are thinking about this the wrong way - part of the reason for the existing of this series is marketing and narrative for the network - so the usual rules about audience don't apply in the same way - there will be no straight relationship between audience and budget - partly because its intended as a showcase for the channel - so it's likely to be *higher* than the average original content they produce. You don't have the show that will have the most focus as the test product for your new strategy look cheap.

Moreover - remember that 600,000 (if we take your figure) is the start not the end of the pie - boxsets, direct purchase, resale rights, airing rights etc.

So a couple things.... in subscription television, it's subscribers, not viewers that matter. It's why HBO can do a show like Game of Thrones for 6 million per episode.. They can do that, because the breadth of subscribers that HBO has. I get that.

So that 600,000 we are talking about is based on the revenue they get from the 100,000 or so current subscribers they have today.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-all-access-streaming-service-780636

The 100K subscribers they have right now, isn't going to pay for a Star Trek Series. Annually that's only 7.2 million in revenue for CBS.

According to Moonves, International Distribution should pay for roughly half the production costs (Whatever they may end up being) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/why-star-trek-went-cbs-836710

But they are still going to need millions of subscribers to make this thing work financially.

I get that there will always be money coming in on the backend, but Studios always see that as the icing on the cake. If a Studio is recouping production costs through merchandise, and licensing, then it's a loss for them. And while I believe CBS may see Star Trek as being a good loss leader for what seems to be an overall investment into CBS All Access, unless they greatly expand their subscription base the show won't stick around.

And based on what I have seen on the internet over the past few days, alot of fans are complaining about having to pay for new star Trek content.. (On the Axanar FB page of all places)

 

[Jedi_Master]

"This work is purely fan fiction and has no connection to official or licensed Star Trek material and may not be sold or otherwise commercially exploited."

More direct.

I like it.

To Tom's point about fundraisers, I do think the CBS announcement took a lot of wind out of the Axanar sales. Their ambitions were always bigger than making a fan film, in a way they were a lot like CBS Access... they wanted to use Trek to open the door to bigger and better things - in their case a working studio that could be a source of income for them.

Its going to be harder for them to do that now.

 

[Campe]

^It's going to be harder for them to do that now with their current model for Axanar. They can always create original content.

 

[Karzak]

Yes, but who will pay for it?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Yes, but who will pay for it?

This guy will...

http://www.imageno.com/xv03uj8v030zpic.html

 

[Campe]

Well, that would be for Mr. Peters to figure out. He does seem rather crafty. Is that me using a nice word for something else? Maybe. I ain't sayin'.

 

[Karzak]

 

[steam235]

I imagine the narrative could be "The new show put a damper on crowd funding / our doners have paid enough, but they deserve the quality we promised so we're going to take 10 months between acts to shoot 2 for profit films to raise money to continue Axanar."

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I imagine the narrative could be "The new show put a damper on crowd funding / our doners have paid enough, but they deserve the quality we promised so we're going to take 10 months between acts to shoot 2 for profit films to raise money to continue Axanar."

You would have to find 2 for profit films (assuming that would cover production costs)..

Also keep in mind that Studio comes in at 13K a month in rent.... which, BTW according to Alec on Facebook, wasn't factored into the most recent fundraiser...

 

[Philip Guyott]

I felt that ‘Star Trek Continues’ statement concerning the new series was very positive.

"We at Star Trek Continues are absolutely thrilled at the announcement of a new official Trek series coming in 2017. We are 100% supportive of CBS and CBS All Access. This is what we've been longing for, and it's finally about to become a reality. THANK YOU, CBS, for reviving episodic Star Trek. We will be first in line to watch it!"

Source: https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekContinues/posts/1065688213464694

It would be nice to see more responses like this from other productions.

 

[Mudd]

That translates as their weekly prayer to the Gods of Trademark not to squish them like bugs.

What the fuck do you expect STC to say? "We'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your Moonves?"

You can expect the budget per episode of the new show to be at least between six and eight million dollars. The pilot's going to cost big time, obviously.

 

[Philip Guyott]

A few months ago Renegades announced after their meeting with CBS:

“As promised to our backers, we engaged the top entertainment attorney in LA who has exceptional connections to CBS and Paramount. For reasons we are not able to disclose, CBS cannot move forward with Star Trek Renegades at this time – or any Star Trek series for that matter.”

Source: http://startrekrenegades.com/home/be-a-renegade-support-the-ongoing-internet-tv-series

I assume the ‘reasons’ why they could not consider other proposals for Star Trek series at that time are now known. CBS were already planning a new series.

Question: Did CBS indicate to Renegades as the time of their meeting that a new series was already in the works?

 

[Karzak]

For those of you still crying about this...

Leslie Moonves Explains Why 'Star Trek' Went to CBS All Access

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

That translates as their weekly prayer to the Gods of Trademark not to squish them like bugs.

What the fuck do you expect STC to say? "We'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your Moonves?"

You can expect the budget per episode of the new show to be at least between six and eight million dollars. The pilot's going to cost big time, obviously.

So Assuming 6 million (Lets go conservative, right?) According to Moonves, half of that comes from international distribution, which means, they need $3,000,000 per episode to pay for it.

Details are sketchy, but I can't see them releasing this at one shot, that would make it too easy for people to subscribe, binge watch it all the first week and drop, leaving CBS nothing... so lets say they stretch it out over 12-13 weeks... (If they were smart they would do 2 half seasons per year, 8 episodes apeace like Walking Dead, might keep people from dropping the subscription....) So lets assume 12 weeks, at 3 months, of new content that means they need 2 million subscribers JUST to break even on the production... that doesn't factor in the cost to run the service....

The trick is, what will CBS offer to keep people from dropping the service once the season is done...

This i why HBO can make expensive shows like Game of Thrones.. because they have content to keep people year round.... CBS needs to step up their game if they wanna do that.

 

[Philip Guyott]

That translates as their weekly prayer to the Gods of Trademark not to squish them like bugs.

What the fuck do you expect STC to say? "We'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your Moonves?"

You can expect the budget per episode of the new show to be at least between six and eight million dollars. The pilot's going to cost big time, obviously.

I agree with you to a point, but I still felt that the response they gave smacked of professionalism. Well done ‘Continues’.

 

[Christopher Miles]

For those of you still crying about this...

Leslie Moonves Explains Why 'Star Trek' Went to CBS All Access

Moonves opened the conference call with "Live Long and Prosper".

Hah!

I was wondering why Tomorrowland seemed to be missing some critical stuff that would have made its story... work.

Then I saw the credits. Man, even that end credit sequence was out of Abrams Movie Trek.

 

[Christopher Miles]

A few months ago Renegades announced after their meeting with CBS:

“As promised to our backers, we engaged the top entertainment attorney in LA who has exceptional connections to CBS and Paramount. For reasons we are not able to disclose, CBS cannot move forward with Star Trek Renegades at this time – or any Star Trek series for that matter.”

Source: http://startrekrenegades.com/home/be-a-renegade-support-the-ongoing-internet-tv-series

I assume the ‘reasons’ why they could not consider other proposals for Star Trek series at that time are now known. CBS were already planning a new series.

Question: Did CBS indicate to Renegades as the time of their meeting that a new series was already in the works?

Also (and this was asked in another thread) was the fella that used to have the Star Trek Beyond site also given a heads up?

I assumed at the time he was granted a pitch meeting to simply smooth over any issues with him relinquishing the Beyond domain name. I wonder if, at the time, the powers that be knew that something other than Star Trek Beyond 2016 was cookin' with either CBS, Paramount or both?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

A few months ago Renegades announced after their meeting with CBS:

“As promised to our backers, we engaged the top entertainment attorney in LA who has exceptional connections to CBS and Paramount. For reasons we are not able to disclose, CBS cannot move forward with Star Trek Renegades at this time – or any Star Trek series for that matter.”

Source: http://startrekrenegades.com/home/be-a-renegade-support-the-ongoing-internet-tv-series

I assume the ‘reasons’ why they could not consider other proposals for Star Trek series at that time are now known. CBS were already planning a new series.

Question: Did CBS indicate to Renegades as the time of their meeting that a new series was already in the works?

Also (and this was asked in another thread) was the fella that used to have the Star Trek Beyond site also given a heads up?

I assumed at the time he was granted a pitch meeting to simply smooth over any issues with him relinquishing the Beyond domain name. I wonder if, at the time, the powers that be knew that something other than Star Trek Beyond 2016 was cookin' with either CBS, Paramount or both?

CBS had no obligation to share with either the guy who owned the Star Trek Beyond domain, OR with Renegades their plan, although, based on Tom's comments, it sounds like he had an idea that something was in the works....

 

[Karzak]

That translates as their weekly prayer to the Gods of Trademark not to squish them like bugs.

What the fuck do you expect STC to say? "We'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your Moonves?"

You can expect the budget per episode of the new show to be at least between six and eight million dollars. The pilot's going to cost big time, obviously.

I agree with you to a point, but I still felt that the response they gave smacked of professionalism. Well done ‘Continues’.

Well, it was certainly leaps and bounds more of a "professional" (whatever that means anymore) response than what came from Robert Meyer Burnett over at Axanar!