"The Woman Who Lived" Grading and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Absolutely agreed.
I thought the show actually got better after they left. And really wtihout Danny and Coal Hill School the Doctor's relationship with Clara has become closer to the Doctor/companion relationship on the old show.
For me, River Song being revealed to be Amy and Rory's daughter, is precisely when the drop in quality occurred. So absurd, so nonsensical, so Moffat.
Really? Look back the series so far and consider how few scenes they've actualy shared together in six episodes. Almost none in the first two, slightly more in episode three, back to almost none in four, slightly more in five and obviously just the one in six. They don't have any sort of relationship at this point. I wonder if that's due to her last minute decision not to leave?
In the three eps. she's been in, she's been in danger, she's asked the Doctor questions the audience would ask and she's not needed to return to earth at the end of the ep. In fact the relationship has gotten rather easy, she's not the control freak she was last season, They've softened towards each other. And really if her decision to leave was in the last miinute it'd hardly effect the early eps.
A Good Man Goes To War certainly wasn't IMO the "game changer" it was sold as, River's revelation was only part of the problem
I found him about as welcome as a boil on the arse.
Te amo, Imperator!
I think it was a mistake to split the series the way that they did (with companions, costumes, console rooms and even the title sequence changing). I know it was done like that a lot in the Classic Series, but it doesn't really work in "NuWho" where every series needs a story arc. The two parts have little commonality in theme or tone (really, Asylum and Name might as well have been broadcast decades apart for all the relation you can feel between them) and they both suffered from lame duck syndrome (the former with Gillan and Darvill, the latter with Smith) where I couldn't really get interested in any new developments with the characters because I knew they would be gone by the end of the year.
In particular, the exit of Rory and Amy was appallingly handled: Their demise (touching the angel and being trapped in the 1930s) smelt like a lazy attempt to contrive another Doomsday ending.
I too wanted to mention this. After two years of supposedly being the most important thing in the Doctor's universe (a point which was very forcibly assured in Series 7 and 8, much to the disgust of many of the fandom's old guard), she has now been rather conspicuously relegated to a minor supporting role. I suppose this is due to Coleman having other commitments, but it seems odd to be slowly fading the character away rather than making a dramatic finale.
I've been trying to put my finger on why I haven't been enjoying the last few seasons, and I wonder if I'm just getting tired of it. Doctor Who is a show that will never have a "series" finale (As in, final episode and then it's done) and I've been watching this series for more than 10 years now. While I like Capaldi, and think he does a great job in the role, I find his doctor kinda arrogant and maybe even a little unlikable. Maybe like other people have been saying, it's the scripts and not the actor but I no longer find the joy of watching this series like I did. Like I said, maybe it's a commitment thing and this will be my final season. Also, while the theme of death and immortality is interesting, does it need to be in every episode. The first two episodes dealt with Davros dying. Then we had ghosts and more dying. Then now we deal with themes of immortality and rather than being subtle like the series has been in the past (If I recall, again maybe this is me getting tired with the show) it's like a sledgehammer every episode.
I enjoyed the last two episodes, but last night there were scenes which came across as embarrassing, like the hanging scene. I was watching that and I was like Why am I not liking this. This is Doctor Who and I should like it but in reality I really don't. The only parts of the episode I really liked was those quiet moments between Ashilder and The Doctor and the Captain Jack mention. Other than that, the episode suffered from the same Moffat syndrome most other episodes deal with. Nonsensical plot, loud music (I've started watching with CC on because of that), and a show I'm finding more of a chore to watch than I did before.
I'm hoping the rest of the season is better but I'm already thinking this will be my last, or at least until the New Doctor comes. Maybe I just don't want the commitment anymore to watch a show that will never end.
I enjoyed the last two episodes, but last night there were scenes which came across as embarrassing, like the hanging scene. I was watching that and I was like Why am I not liking this. This is Doctor Who and I should like it but in reality I really don't. The only parts of the episode I really liked was those quiet moments between Ashilder and The Doctor and the Captain Jack mention. Other than that, the episode suffered from the same Moffat syndrome most other episodes deal with. Nonsensical plot, loud music (I've started watching with CC on because of that), and a show I'm finding more of a chore to watch than I did before.
I'm hoping the rest of the season is better but I'm already thinking this will be my last, or at least until the New Doctor comes. Maybe I just don't want the commitment anymore to watch a show that will never end.
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No, you're right. The theme of morality running through the season is so unsubtle they might as well just stand in front of a massive lit up sign in every episode with huge letters declaring PEOPLE DIE CLARA WILL DIE just to make sure we all get the point.
That was a great line and I'm only just realizing the double meaning behind it.
I loathed the character very much. The being said, I understand and like the idea behind the character, but the execution (more so the writing than the acting) was absolutely horrendous. The baggage the character brought with him, i.e. forcing the grounding of Clara to Earth and having The Doctor pick her up and/or visit her every episode, made things even worse.
My take on Danny was that he was a good character, and the actor did a great job, but Danny just wasn't a good character for DW. He acted more like a ball and chain for Clara. He introduced a soapish aspect to the series as well. His whole attitude towards the Doctor, and visa versa, just didn't make sense.
For me at least, DW is about the wonder of exploration, escapism, etc. In a different type of show, Danny might've been a good character, but not for this show!
Mr Awe
I have some very mixed feelings about this episode.
There were the things I liked -- it was well-directed, the first act conversations between the Doctor and Me crackled, the other highwayman was fun.
There were things I disliked -- pretty much everything else. I wasn't especially engaged by it, the story was thin, and I felt like (with the previous episode) that this was more "the Doctor visits a Ren Faire" than "the Doctor visits the past."
I think my biggest problem was the casting of Maisie Williams as Me. I had no issues with her acting, but every time she said something like, "Please take me with you," the moment was so meta that it was like taking a hammer to the Fourth Wall; the Doctor isn't going to take Me with him because Maisie Williams has prior commitments to Game of Thrones. So those conversations didn't work for me at all; the reality of production cast a shadow over the story the production was trying to tell.
And while it would have broken Moffat's cutesy structure for the season, I really feel that "Girl Who Died" and "Woman Who Lived" needed to be split up, with a story or two in-between.
There were the things I liked -- it was well-directed, the first act conversations between the Doctor and Me crackled, the other highwayman was fun.
There were things I disliked -- pretty much everything else. I wasn't especially engaged by it, the story was thin, and I felt like (with the previous episode) that this was more "the Doctor visits a Ren Faire" than "the Doctor visits the past."
I think my biggest problem was the casting of Maisie Williams as Me. I had no issues with her acting, but every time she said something like, "Please take me with you," the moment was so meta that it was like taking a hammer to the Fourth Wall; the Doctor isn't going to take Me with him because Maisie Williams has prior commitments to Game of Thrones. So those conversations didn't work for me at all; the reality of production cast a shadow over the story the production was trying to tell.
And while it would have broken Moffat's cutesy structure for the season, I really feel that "Girl Who Died" and "Woman Who Lived" needed to be split up, with a story or two in-between.
I think the episode did a good job of setting up Ashildr as a frenemy of the Doctor. It also explored some interesting aspects of immortality. I thought the scenes where Ashildr and the Doctor discussed the issue of immortality were well done.
So, has Me been lugging that huge library of memoirs around with her every time she switches to a new life?
In fact how does she get that big house and become an apparently well-known Lady? It would be fairly easy to pass her off as coming from a wealthy merchant family but being in the aristocracy means you should have something she can't fake - a visible past.
In fact how does she get that big house and become an apparently well-known Lady? It would be fairly easy to pass her off as coming from a wealthy merchant family but being in the aristocracy means you should have something she can't fake - a visible past.
For me the show seems to be losing its sense of identity and purpose. There's no growth, and there's nothing to tie anything together. As a rule, I don't have a problem with standalone stories, but I do have a problem with entire seasons that meander without actually going anywhere.
Part of the problem right now is Clara. I have actually enjoyed her as a companion, but she seems to keep being pushed farther into the background, and it's a bit off-putting. Even though I wasn't a huge fan of the Danny Pink storyline, it at least gave Clara something to do. In the Viking episode Clara admits that the Doctor is a hobby; well, I need their relationship to be more than that if I'm actually expected to care about it.
She's gone from The Impossible Girl to The Girl Who Tags Along When She Doesn't Have Anything Better To Do. It's boring.
And I think I would be able to forgive her lack of development if there was more going on with the Doctor himself. What about Gallifrey? WHY AREN'T YOU LOOKING FOR IT?!
People have mixed feelings about the River storyline, but at least it gave the Matt Smith years a sense of cohesion. Amy, Rory, River, and the Doctor became this weird, timey whimey family, and they all loved and cared about each other, and that in turn made me love and care about them.
I don't love Capaldi. I don't love Clara. I like the actors, and I think they do a good job with the material they're given, but I honestly don't care about what happens to them anymore because the stories are meaningless.
I imagine she built up quite a fortune from several centuries of stealing.
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