"The Girl Who Died" Grading and Discussion Thread

[matthunter]

RTD still holds the record for the lowest AI score though, with Love and Monsters I believe but even that was, all in all a good score in the AI scale.

I see you're ignoring the viewing figures this week because they're up and focusing on the AI 'cos it's down. Good old confirmation bias eh? Ah well we're all guilty of that.

And, IIRC, AI figures for Series 8 were also averaging 83-84. So whilst this ep is on the low end for NuWho as a whole, it's about par for the course for Capaldi's run, and yet people are still watching.

I think the AI reviewers are just getting a bit more jaded. God knows Who fans are. It's like a Laurence Miles lookalike competition these days.

What were the overnights this week, BTW?

4.85M, highest so far this series. It has been pointed out that Who got a bit of a boost by Strictly overrunning, but apparently even factoring this in the numbers only drop to about 4.61 so it's still the best this year.

I think everyone's getting more jaded with Who, this is what happens when a show runs for so long (I seem to recall one season of Spooks that had dire viewing figures, yet it still ran for another three or four years.) The truth of the matter seems to be this: fewer people are watching Who and they're enjoying it slightly less, but the flipside is that large numbers of people are still watching Who and they're generally really enjoying it (82 is still very good, hell my understanding is that 76 for Love and Monsters is an AI a lot of shows would kill for)

Indeed. I'm also not drawing any conclusions about viewing figures until the Beeb releases the iPlayer data. BARB ratings don't factor it in, and the metrics suggest the portion of the audience downloading the ep has increased series-on-series.

I'm sure the rise of Netflix has also captured some viewers away from "Live or DVR".

 

[SeerSGB]

Yeah, I'm pretty well sold that 12 is heading for a 10th level fall from grace>

 

[Stevil2001]

If I remember correctly, the Doctor and Donna spent time with Caecilius' family before the volcano erupted. So, for the Doctor, the Pompeiian might have been more than a stranger to him when the act of saving took place. He might have been a friend, and remembering how he saved his friend is the reminder he needs. Thus, the face.

Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years.

Let me repeat that. Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years. That's how long, for the Doctor, give or take a decade or so, was between meeting Caecilius and his family and his new regeneration cycle on Trenzalore.

Twelve. Hundred. Years.

It would have made more sense if the Doctor subconsciously took the form of someone on Trenzalore. After all, he'd seen everyone there, for nine hundred years, be born, grow old, and die. He lived with them daily in a way that he never lived with Clara.

Sometimes I think Moffat forgets that marooned the Doctor on Trenzalore for hundreds of years, because the twelfth Doctor never acts like it. His relationship with Clara, for one thing, has never felt like it has that kind of discontinuity in it; he picks up in "Deep Breath" like the Christmas dinner with her family was a few days previous.

This explanation is like the fourth wall breakage last week. It's something meta that makes sense in terms of television and its production, but it makes zero sense in-universe. None.

Twelve hundred years, Moffat! Twelve. Hundred. Years.

Has Doctor Who ever taken stuff like this seriously? When the Doctor name-drops Jamie McCrimmon and Tegan Jovanka, or recalls the nuances of his encounters with Davros or the Nimon, he's dealing with situations that happened ever further back. He clearly has a really good memory.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah, I'm pretty well sold that 12 is heading for a 10th level fall from grace>

I really do agree here. Could be interesting if they go down this path..

 

[Mr Awe]

Couldn't the Doctor have modified the chip so it turns off after a certain amount of time since he was able to modify it so much that it works on humans? I kinda feel like the Doctor should have known better than to give Ashildr, a mere human from the era of Vikings, functional immortality without putting a time limit or something on it. Surely, a Time Lord of his experience would understand the repercussions of making a human immortal. Just seemed like a rather careless mistake for the Doctor to make.

It was fishy/careless how quickly the Doctor was able to make this huge change. And, he realized awful quickly what the effect would be. So, it's not that realistic that he wouldn't realize, and adjust for it, while modifying the device. This aspect of the story just felt contrived all around.

If this is the hybrid who becomes the big bad in the finale (I have no idea. It could be a red herring (hopefully), you'd like it to have a better origin that this!

Mr Awe

 

[Romulan_spy]

WAS it a mistake? He seems to regret it, but he may already have suspected how things would turn out due to the weird vibe she gave him at the start of the ep... perhaps subconsciously his Time Lord senses knew she would live several hundred years so she can meet him again in his future? And then prodded him to arrange things in that manner?

yeah, there might a timey whimey thing going on. But considering how regretful he was in the end, saying that he might have made a big mistake, just the common sense of not making a human immortal, plus if she turns out to be the war minister who turns evil because she hates the Doctor for making her immortal (my assumption), then this whole thing will definitely have been a huge mistake.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

It has been a thing that Time Lords and Ladies can change their appearance by choice since the Fourth Doctor. This does raise some questions.

1. The Sixth Doctor had the same face as another Gallifreyan. I do not remember a positive thing about this other person. What was it about this person that would led the Doctor to chose his appearance?
2. What are the legal repercussions for a Gallifreyan who choses to model their appearance on another of their species? This is almost identity theft in a way.

Thinking back on the movie from 1996, when the Master was some form of weird creature, and based on what is known, what is the true appearance of a Gallifreyan? Are they human-like or they parroting human-like appearances to hide their true appearance?

 

[Captrek]

Thinking back on the movie from 1996, when the Master was some form of weird creature, and based on what is known, what is the true appearance of a Gallifreyan? Are they human-like or they parroting human-like appearances to hide their true appearance?

In "The Beast Below," Amy says to Eleven, "You look human," and Eleven responds, "No, you look Time Lord. We came first."

 

[Saul]

I liked the episode. Doctor is saving lots of people this season. Davros, himself with paradoxes, Ashildr.

But did anyone notice the book the Doctor was flipping through? Not his Diary. There was a book in one of the Viking's rooms which looked like something from a few hundred years hence.

Well if she gets her head lopped off that can't be fixed for one.

Face of Boe.

 

[TommyR01D]

If I remember correctly, the Doctor and Donna spent time with Caecilius' family before the volcano erupted. So, for the Doctor, the Pompeiian might have been more than a stranger to him when the act of saving took place. He might have been a friend, and remembering how he saved his friend is the reminder he needs. Thus, the face.

Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years.

Let me repeat that. Two regenerations. Twelve hundred years. That's how long, for the Doctor, give or take a decade or so, was between meeting Caecilius and his family and his new regeneration cycle on Trenzalore.

Twelve. Hundred. Years.

It would have made more sense if the Doctor subconsciously took the form of someone on Trenzalore. After all, he'd seen everyone there, for nine hundred years, be born, grow old, and die. He lived with them daily in a way that he never lived with Clara.

Sometimes I think Moffat forgets that marooned the Doctor on Trenzalore for hundreds of years, because the twelfth Doctor never acts like it. His relationship with Clara, for one thing, has never felt like it has that kind of discontinuity in it; he picks up in "Deep Breath" like the Christmas dinner with her family was a few days previous.

This explanation is like the fourth wall breakage last week. It's something meta that makes sense in terms of television and its production, but it makes zero sense in-universe. None.

Twelve hundred years, Moffat! Twelve. Hundred. Years.

It reminds me of VOY "Blink of an Eye" when the Doctor (the EMH) accidentally gets trapped on the planet for two years, casually recounts his life story, and then carries on as if nothing has happened. It never even gets mentioned again. That he had spent a quarter of his existence in that environment had no repercussions in the series at all (I don't think they even remembered to increase his stated age in later episodes!)

 

[matthunter]

The idea of identity theft among Gallifreyans is probably not a serious issue... We've had several statements in the series implying Time Lords can recognize each other in different bodies. Even just this series, Missy implied that she just sees "the Doctor" and could have imagined the story about the android assassins with any of him in it.

The only times we've seen the Doctor have trouble recognising a Time Lord has been the Ainley Master (who was in a Trakenite body rather than a Gallifreyan one) or the Rani (when the Doctor was suffering regeneration trauma).

It might be considered impolite... The Fourth Doctor admonished Romana for choosing the face of Princess Astra. But among TLs themselves I doubt it's a big thing.

 

[SeerSGB]

The idea of identity theft among Gallifreyans is probably not a serious issue... We've had several statements in the series implying Time Lords can recognize each other in different bodies. Even just this series, Missy implied that she just sees "the Doctor" and could have imagined the story about the android assassins with any of him in it.

The only times we've seen the Doctor have trouble recognising a Time Lord has been the Ainley Master (who was in a Trakenite body rather than a Gallifreyan one) or the Rani (when the Doctor was suffering regeneration trauma).

It might be considered impolite... The Fourth Doctor admonished Romana for choosing the face of Princess Astra. But among TLs themselves I doubt it's a big thing.

Another question is how regeneration works: is it a biological alteration or is it bio-tech induced? Basically is a organ or biological trait unlocked in Gallifreayns or is it some sort of nanite tech

 

[Nightowl1701]

Bit of both. A Gallifreyan hormone, lindos, is released into the bloodstream when the Time Lord's body reaches the 'point of no return' (or it can be consciously triggered). This in turn activates nanites which channel the artron energy (the orange fiery stuff) within the Time Lord to completely reinvent him/her at the genetic/molecular level. The nanites can also be triggered by the Time Lord's TARDIS, or an artron energy boost from another Time Lord, if needed. Time Lords only receive the nanites (known as the Rassilon Imprimatur) and enough artron energy for 13 lives upon graduation from the Academy.

 

[The Four Doctor]

Ainley was a time lord body that had used Tremas as a template in its created - Nyssa has only one heart but Ainley Master has two in the Rani story.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I liked the episode. Doctor is saving lots of people this season. Davros, himself with paradoxes, Ashildr.

But did anyone notice the book the Doctor was flipping through? Not his Diary. There was a book in one of the Viking's rooms which looked like something from a few hundred years hence.

Well if she gets her head lopped off that can't be fixed for one.

Face of Boe.

Boe is male and a different species

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Bit of both. A Gallifreyan hormone, lindos, is released into the bloodstream when the Time Lord's body reaches the 'point of no return' (or it can be consciously triggered). This in turn activates nanites which channel the artron energy (the orange fiery stuff) within the Time Lord to completely reinvent him/her at the genetic/molecular level. The nanites can also be triggered by the Time Lord's TARDIS, or an artron energy boost from another Time Lord, if needed. Time Lords only receive the nanites (known as the Rassilon Imprimatur) and enough artron energy for 13 lives upon graduation from the Academy.

Where does this info come from?

 

[Nightowl1701]

Various sources. You can find most of them here: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Regeneration

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Various sources. You can find most of them here: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Regeneration

Oh cool.. I bet the nanites idea is all "new who" stuff lol

 

[DWF]

Well that's not quite how the novel of The Twin Dilemna states how regeration happens. There it was a gland that started the process.

 

[The Wormhole]

1. The Sixth Doctor had the same face as another Gallifreyan. I do not remember a positive thing about this other person. What was it about this person that would led the Doctor to chose his appearance?

Maybe the Doctor had a stray thought of Maxil while regenerating and it was enough to influence how the regeneration turned out?

2. What are the legal repercussions for a Gallifreyan who choses to model their appearance on another of their species? This is almost identity theft in a way.

It's been implied each Time Lord has a unique telepathic signature that can identify them among other Time Lords, thereby creating a way they can recognize each other regardless of physical appearance. Note in The End of Time Rassilon instantly recognizes the Doctor and the Master despite the fact that both had regenerated twice since the Time War.