Avengers: Age of Ultron- Grading & Discussion (spoilerific)

[theenglish]

In the farmhouse Bruce/Natasha scene, he originally firmly rejected her and told her off. This led to her being suicidal in the South Korea sequence which was the emotional core of that scene, when it was removed Joss felt that entire fight scene became a hollow spectacle. This is also why Widow talks about not walking away from the fight at the ending.

That's actually worse than what we got. Good change on Marvel's behalf there.

I can't even see how that makes sense for the character. I can see her getting pissed off, but not suicidal. I can also see her trying to compensate for her lack of powers by taking risky actions, but not letting her emotions over a man get the best of her when so much is at stake.

 

[Mr Light]

Also, I don't think it's terribly empowering for the only woman on the team to want to kill herself because her crush rejected her...

 

[Turtletrekker]

I so liked the "Love is for children" Natasha of the first movie.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I don't like the idea of Natasha becoming suicidal after being rejected by Banner. It's kind of surprising to hear that coming from Whedon, I thought with things like Buffy and Firefly, that usually wrote women better than that.

 

[Skywalker]

It also would have been nice for Bruce to have at least considered the fact that Betty Ross is still out there, somewhere, waiting for him.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

They should've kept ClinTasha.

BruTasha and Clint's secret family both came out of left field. Recall Natasha in TWS.

 

[Skywalker]

I actually like that they ultimately didn't make Natasha/Clint a thing. I agree with Whedon that a man and a woman who work together don't have to be in a relationship, that they can just be best friends and nothing more than that. They didn't need to pair Natasha with anyone, really.

 

[Gaith]

Interesting thing from the Whedon commentary.

In the farmhouse Bruce/Natasha scene, he originally firmly rejected her and told her off. This led to her being suicidal in the South Korea sequence which was the emotional core of that scene, when it was removed Joss felt that entire fight scene became a hollow spectacle.

Well, that sounds... um, what's the word, again? ... Oh, right: f****** awful.

It also would have been nice for Bruce to have at least considered the fact that Betty Ross is still out there, somewhere, waiting for him.

According to a cough-and-you'll-miss-it Tony line in the first act, Bruce helped design Veronica. So if he signed off on that name, and its significance, maybe that means Betty has indeed moved on (again)?

"Sorry, Bruce, our mutual attraction was explosive. I adored your lanky frame and razor-sharp cheekbones. But ever since your whole appearance changed, and you look and sound like a frumpy prep school English teacher... well, I'm not waiting for you anymore.

Hugs,
Betty

PS. I for one still look like Arwen."


​

 

[kirk55555]

I just rewatched the movie on Blu Ray, and I still like it a lot. Its not quite as good as the first, but its still a solid movie. Ultron was also possibly better than I remember, but that's probably because I've watched so much of The Blacklist that I can imagine Spader's character from the show saying Ultron's lines

The whole "Widow would have been suicidal" thing was definitely a bad idea, and I'm glad it got cut. Whedon is a good writer, but sometimes he comes up with ideas that just make you go

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I caught the Veronica reference. Still think Whedon could have made more of an effort, but that would have gotten in the way of his lame "Beauty and the Beast" thing.

 

[Marsden]

The whole "Widow would have been suicidal" thing was definitely a bad idea, and I'm glad it got cut. Whedon is a good writer, but sometimes he comes up with ideas that just make you go

I agree with that! I was happier not even knowing it existed. I'm strictly a dvd man for now, plus I hardly ever listen to those commentaries anyway. And this whole little topic is bizarre.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around someone saying "fight scene became a hollow spectacle" with any kind of straight face. I love the movies, but if they aren't spectacle I don't know what is.

 

[JD]

Ever since Age of Ultron I've wondered if maybe S.H.I.E.L.D. sent Natasha to get Bruce in India or wherever he was, because they knew he had a thing for her and hoped he would come if she asked.

 

[DimesDan]

Ever since Age of Ultron I've wondered if maybe S.H.I.E.L.D. sent Natasha to get Bruce in India or wherever he was, because they knew he had a thing for her and hoped he would come if she asked.

Didn't Nat ask Fury that very question in the film?

 

[Karzak]

HULK SMASH ASGARD

Mark Ruffalo Bringing Hulk Into ‘Thor: Ragnarok’

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Cinemasins video

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7AYpTO08zo[/yt]

 

[Taylirious]

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

At the 14:09 mark, one of the most spot-on statements (of many) from the Cinema Sins video:

Also, having your most useless superhero joke about his uselessness does NOT excuse his inclusion in The Avengers over other heroes with real, actual powers.

That was addressing Hawkeye, but it also applies to the overused Black Widow, who should be dead considering the out-of-her-league battles / stunts she's tossed in with ridiculous regularity.

 

[Tosk]

That's superheroes for you. But it's not as though it's the only genre that skews power levels for dramatic effect.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

That's superheroes for you. But it's not as though it's the only genre that skews power levels for dramatic effect.

the difference is that Black Widow & Hawkeye are just regular humans with the kid of training and weapons that by all rights should be ineffective, and place their heads on the chopping block in every super-powered fight.

The brainless versions of Jedi in the Star Wars prequels were powered by the force, and could do much, but even they were falling like dominoes--even against adversaries that were not as powerful (the clones, laughable Trade Federation droids, etc.).

In the Marvel movies, regular humans leap, roll and are slammed around, with hardly a serious injury, which is as unrealistic in the films as it is in the comics.

 

[Tosk]

In the Marvel movies, regular humans leap, roll and are slammed around, with hardly a serious injury, which is as unrealistic in the films as it is in the comics.

Yes.