Star Trek Continues Ep. 5: "Divided We Stand"...(spoilers)

[Duane]

Hi Zaminhon,

The war footage from the 02:30 mark until 02:45 was outstanding. As is the footage from 03:56-04:04. The best I've ever scene in an independent Trek production.

The footage around the 04:05-04:10 mark lacks sufficient actors and this threw me out of the story a bit.

 

[maneth]

I really enjoyed this one.

 

[FrankT]

Another great episode!

Spoiler

Though I was initially skeptical about the use of time travel, the way it was handled made it all worth it, while at the same time teaching us the horrors of war, both then and now.

 

[Warped9]

I was worried this might be a time travel story, but it wasn't, not in the conventional sense. I was worried it might be a holodeck story, but it wasn't that either. They avoided those two traps.

The alien nanites were doing what the Talosians, the Melkot and others had been able to do: create a sufficiently convincing illusion that the "hosts" couldn't ignore. We never learn where those nanites came from, but the Enterprise has encountered other things before for which we never learned their origin.

It's been asked if these nanites could be related to the Borg. Why do they have to be? There's no reason they couldn't exist independently in a universe where all manner of dangerous things can easily exist independent of each other.

Some have said the story is preachy yet, like has already been said, it's certainly not any more preachy than anything else we've seen in TOS. And clarity is not something one need aplogize for. It's also well in keeping with the writing and storytelling style of the 1960s.

There is complaint about sympathy to the North yet whatever one thinks the North was essentially on the right side of history. A key issue of the South's resistance--and one found amply in documentation from the period--was they were adamant about wanting to maintain slavery. That in itself was being on the wrong side of history.


This story was a clever way to do an off-ship story and much along the same lines as TOS has done by utilizing resources at hand. Although separated by fifty years and differences in resources both TOS and STC are faced with a similar limit in respective resources to depict certain kinds of aliens and alien worlds. Cgi does give STC an advantage TOS could only dream of, but then again STC is self-constrained in what they can show in terms of trying to stay reasonably consistent with what TOS could have done even under the best of conditions. And so far STC has shown very little that TOS couldn't have done given sufficient time and money.

 

[CaptainSerek]

I watched this yesterday. I enjoyed it.

 

[Bixby]

So why was the title so spoileriffic? I don't get it...

 

[Warped9]

So why was the title so spoileriffic? I don't get it...

Candidly I don't get it either. The title hints at some sort of conflict, but it doesn't really give anything away. I can understand not releasing a peak at the poster because that's pure spoiler.

 

[ElimGarak.93-99]

I like this episode a lot more than 'The White Iris.'

I didn't really know about the Civil War, I'm not from the States, so after I watched the episode I read a bit about it on Wikipedia.

I'm going a bit off topic here, but I remember a Warehouse 13 episode 3x04 Queen for a day, where Steve and Claudia where at a Civil War reenactment to find an artefact. When they neutralized the artefact causing the usual sparks and reenactor passed by and says: 'Damn Trekkies! Always crashing the party, pretending they’re time travellers.' Jery Ryan was also in this episode as Pete's ex.

 

[Zaminhon]

Had to look it up. From Wikipedia:

James Thompson Kirk (September 21, 1826 – December 7, 1886) was a Pennsylvania merchant and then an officer in the Union Army during the American Civil War. He was the second officer to hold the title of colonel in the 10th Pennsylvania Reserve regiment.

Nice little historical reference, but it's doubtful that that the sargeant would have heard of him. Who knows, it's a small world, he might have been a neighbor or distant relative.

Hi Zaminhon,

The war footage from the 02:30 mark until 02:45 was outstanding. As is the footage from 03:56-04:04. The best I've ever scene in an independent Trek production.

The footage around the 04:05-04:10 mark lacks sufficient actors and this threw me out of the story a bit.

I would have been taken out of the story a bit if they hadn't shown horses. But yeah! It was such a nice surprise when they appeared.

 

[Warped9]

^^ We have to remember that what Kirk and McCoy were experiencing wasn't necessarily completely accurate and true. It was a mixture of historical data from the ship's libraray mixed in with Kirk and McCoy's recollections and perspectives.

 

[Zaminhon]

Hehe, you're right, the sargeant was just a piece of nano-code, like Agent Smith of the Matrix.

 

[dswynne1]

Okay, I hate to do this, because of recent events, but, speaking as a "person of color", and one who has roots in the South, I could care less the "real" reasons for the Civil War. The fact of the matter is that the South, and in fact the United States for that matter, shouldn't have been engaged in the practice of slavery to begin with, especially given that the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights (along with the US Constitution) was suppose to be documents sanctifying the rights of free men and democratic values. When talking about the justification for the Civil War, ultimately, there are victims involved: the men who actively fought the war, the destroyed lives (on both sides) as the result of the war, and the freed men women who, after so long, had to learn how to be citizens of a nation that may or may not be hostile to them. And because of this, I blame the gutless politicians who couldn't compromise on the issue of both slavery and states rights. But more to the point, I blamed the Founding Framers for the Civil War, for not having the foresight that a country built on the values of a democratic Republic will end up becoming a House Divided. Ergo, the roots of the Civil War can be found on the street corner of Cowardice and Convenience. And again, as a "minority", I could care less about the reasons for the Civil War, but I do care that my people were freed in the end.

As for this particular outing of STC: I liked it. The episode felt like a typical TOS episode. It was not a profound episode, however, and it seems to take elements of "Red Badge of Courage" as a means to tell a story. I think the episode would have been more interesting if Captain Kirk and Dr. McCoy were either on the same side (especially on the Confederate side), or were switched (with Kirk as the Confederate and McCoy as a Unionist). It would definitely be in keeping with the challenges that our characters would face. Also, on a technical side, I think the transition between the night campsite scene and the American, morning scene felt too "modern". I think it would have been better if there was a "hard break" (as if a commercial were to be placed in that transition moment). Also, the running time was a bit short. If you are not going to put in commercials in your episodes, the running time per episode should be no more than 51:50 minutes, which would be the length of a typical TOS episode anyway. Personally, to keep STC (and other TOS-oriented fan productions) "authentic", I would just put in fake or public domain commercials in the cuts. That way, the episodes would really feel authentic, but that's just me.

At any rate, good job! I can't wait until I see more...

 

[Indysolo]

...after I watched the episode I read a bit about it on Wikipedia.

So did the writers!

Here's a bit of dialogue from the new Star Trek Continues:
"The Battle of Antietam Creek. Sharpsburg, Maryland. September 17, 1862. One of the bloodiest days in American history. The dead, wounded and missing totaled more than 22,000."

And here's what wikipedia says, "It is the bloodiest single-day battle in American history, with a combined tally of dead, wounded, and missing at 22,717."

Neil

 

[Zaminhon]

There are a few places where stock footage is used, like 23:34, but they are so seamlessly integrated it's ridiculous. The magic of modern tech.

I remember how crappy it looked when TOS used stock footage for strafing Zeroes to Cape Kennedy and everything in between.

Here's the stock footage if anyone is interested.

 

[Treadwell]

So why was the title so spoileriffic? I don't get it...

Lincoln famously used the phrase "United we stand, divided we fall" in a speech. Although it's a much older phrase, and he said it before the war, most people tend to associate it with the civil war. So it was felt that even speculation in that direction could be avoided. Me, I figure speculation is good anticipatory buzz to have.

The spoiler fear is probably just a carryover mindset, considering that the working title of the episode was "Return to Antietam".

 

[Treadwell]

Also, the boy, Billy Palmerton, had a different last name in the script, but we searched lists of Union casualties and made a list of Williams for Vic to choose from.

 

[Phantom]

It's been asked if these nanites could be related to the Borg. Why do they have to be? There's no reason they couldn't exist independently in a universe where all manner of dangerous things can easily exist independent of each other.

Let's see:

infected hosts function collectively/shared-group consciousness? Check

preference for cyber-organic interfacing? Check

possibility of Delta Quadrant origin? Check

ETA: I've tried every patch and upgrade recommended and the ep still plays "fast" on any way I try to view it.

It's also several minutes shorter to begin with than the older eps...is this just how the story shot? Or was there an effort to cut down the running length?

 

[Noname Given]

Well, as someone in IT for years, I the problem with their computers was obvious - all those motherboards with no memory simms or CPUs to speak of installed.

Overall as others the production values, cinematography, and honestly the acting by all involved (especially the older veteran civil war enactor in the final hospital tent scene) was very well done. For me though, the overall story didn't grab me and I honestly am tired 'Continues' desire to touchstone to TNG as the basis of the plot obviously alludes again alludes to 'The Borg' and borrows story elements from TNG's third season episode "Evolution".

I also feel the James T. Kirk character is assassinated in that Kirk was NEVER such a pacifist that he wouldn't kill if the situation calls for it (and in fact he mentions that to Mr. Spock in the TOS episode "Errand of Mercy" as they infiltrate Kor's Command post on Organia.) I can understand that Kirk felt he might be changing history, but again, given that he has Bones working as a surgeon (and Bones even mentions that he indeed might be changing history if they are indeed in the past, by saving men's lives who were supposed to die.)

I also think it was out of character to Kirk to do the whole "I'm not supposed to be here!..." bit as I don't feel he would indulge in self pity about losing his leg <--- Which is how it first comes across to me. He's pitying himself; and after ALL he's been through on the Enterprise in the past <--- that's NOT a reaction I'd expect from James T. Kirk.

So, yes, on a technical and acting level, and professional execution level - VERY well done. IMO on a script and in some areas a character level, IMO a bit weak on this one.

Edited to add:
Sorry, the above might come across as me inferring overall I didn't like it when overall, I did. I just have to say to the Continues group (if they read this); I'd enjoy it more if you guys would engender more of the TOS attitudes and mores then going with what often comes across to me here and there as a more TNG attitude towards both the stories and attitudes of the characters. I like TOS best for many reasons; and one of them is that overall (yes there were exceptions in TOS too); TOS wasn't preachy nor were the characters so pacifistic or adverse to doing what needed to be done without over-agonizing about it. I don't enjoy seeing the TOS era (or characters) retconned to a more TNG-like state myself; and it's something (IMO) some of the 'Continues' scripts have tried to do on occasion.

Still overall, a good and enjoyable episode.

 

[Warped9]

Since the beginning there has been a strain of TNG like sensibilities in the writing of STC that shows up every so often and I agree it seems to be particularly noticeable in how Kirk is sometimes written.

I disagree with it, but perhaps one could rationalize it by seeing it as an evolution (to a degree) of Kirk's character.

 

[Zaminhon]

I also feel the James T. Kirk character is assassinated in that Kirk was NEVER such a pacifist that he wouldn't kill if the situation calls for it (and in fact he mentions that to Mr. Spock in the TOS episode "Errand of Mercy" as they infiltrate Kor's Command post on Organia.) I can understand that Kirk felt he might be changing history, but again, given that he has Bones working as a surgeon (and Bones even mentions that he indeed might be changing history if they are indeed in the past, by saving men's lives who were supposed to die.)

These guys weren't Kllngons, Kirk wasn't at war with them. He's absolutely right that this wasn't his war so trying to avoid killing anyone was the right course. I have no doubt that if his life was directly threatened, or even Billy's, close in and one on one, he would try to put the others out of commission one way or the other, but I think his first inclination would be to escape or avoid the situation. I do like the twist that Billy uses Kirk's apparent "Pacifism" as his justification to run from the battle.

I also think it was out of character to Kirk to do the whole "I'm not supposed to be here!..." bit as I don't feel he would indulge in self pity about losing his leg <--- Which is how it first comes across to me. He's pitying himself; and after ALL he's been through on the Enterprise in the past <--- that's NOT a reaction I'd expect from James T. Kirk.

I don't think Kirk has ever had to face anything as traumatic and permanent as losing a leg. I doubt that it's career ending, but physically he is not the same man as before. I doubt he'd bounce back from that very quickly.