On season 4 of Buffy...should I be watching Angel?

[Forbin]

Just IMHO, Once More... blew away Bitter Suite. And I loved Bitter Suite at the time! But on reflection, I think it was less creative - the characters sort of just sang dialog operatically. Whereas OMwF gave us a nice collection of memorable, singable tunes.

Or maybe they're just two different kinds of musical, and I prefer one over the other.

 

[kirk55555]

For all the praise that Once More with Feeling does rightfully receive, it's by no means the strongest episode of Season 6 (IMO, that honor goes to Villains) or even of the series as a whole (an honor that, IMO, goes to The Gift).

The main reason I like "Once More With Feeling" is because it's actually important. Musical episodes tend to be rather gimmicky. They're fun diversion, but they don't often have much substance to them.

"Once More with Feeling" somehow manages to be a musical episode that actually drives the story forward in very significant ways.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I like it so much (athough its just a well written story with good songs in general). Pointless musicals really are the worst musical episodes (I'm looking at you, Xena's Lyre, Lyre Hearts on Fire ).

As for the best episode of the season, I personally love Tabula Rasa, but the last few episodes are probably the most powerful, for the shock that happened and the big finale. When it comes to The Body...I barely remember it. Season 5 is so atrocious, I've mostly blocked it all out. I know what its about, but it made no impact on me. I mostly remember that whole season as being one big blind rage at the stupid new character and the worst main villain in the whole Buffy/Angel franchise. So, I definitely wouldn't say that The Body is the best Buffy episode, because nothing from season 5 was the best of anything.

Just IMHO, Once More... blew away Bitter Suite. And I loved Bitter Suite at the time! But on reflection, I think it was less creative - the characters sort of just sang dialog operatically. Whereas OMwF gave us a nice collection of memorable, singable tunes.

Or maybe they're just two different kinds of musical, and I prefer one over the other.

OMwF just makes Bitter Suite that much worse by existing. Bitter Suite would be an idiotic, poorly done episode by itself, but comparing it to basically the best musical episode of any series ever just makes the failings of the horrible Xena episode worse. I know I just said that pointless musicals are the worst, but even with a point the Bitter Suite is easily the worst musical episode from any show, and in probably my top 2 most despised Xena episodes as well.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

While I love The Bitter Suite, none of the songs really stand out to me. Except for "Love Of Your Love", because Lucy's voice is so beautiful, and the song is very emotional. Whereas I know every song from OMWF off by heart. The episode also flows more naturally.

 

[CorporalClegg]

And the Xena one was outsourced to professionals.

 

[JD]

Once More With Feeling and The Body were two of my favorite Buffy episodes. Great stuff.

 

[Forbin]

One thing about S5 that I found annoying was (Oh shit, spoilers!) - um, a certain main character's illness. I watch Buffy for escapism, even if it's escapism with dire consequences. Having a portrayal of a dire real-world illness intrude on that fantasy, and remind us of real life, I think, betrayed the premise of the show. And, ya know, annoyed me.

 

[JD]

I thought that was great. After all of the demons and vampires, and monsters, I thought it was interesting to actually see them tackle something that Buffy and The Scoobies couldn't fight.

 

[DonIago]

Agreed. It didn't make for -happy- viewing, but I never thought Buffy was about happy viewing. It added dimensions to the show that we hadn't previously seen, and if not already clear from my prior posts, led to what I consider one of the most impressive episodes of either Buffy or Angel.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

That particular death was to show that sometimes you can't fix everything with a spell. It was one of the few times when reality was shown and it made it all the more heartbreaking. Also it forced one of the characters to mature in more ways than one, which I found interesting.

But just to be clear, I wasn't okay with that death.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Yes only vampires with souls and other types of chosen ones get to come back from the dead. Regular non-recurring secondary characters don't get that chance.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Yes only vampires with souls and other types of chosen ones get to come back from the dead. Regular non-recurring secondary characters don't get that chance.

Jenny came back once in season 3. Though technically she wasn't real. As did the person whom this current conversation is about, a few times I think.

 

[Christopher]

One thing about S5 that I found annoying was (Oh shit, spoilers!) - um, a certain main character's illness. I watch Buffy for escapism, even if it's escapism with dire consequences. Having a portrayal of a dire real-world illness intrude on that fantasy, and remind us of real life, I think, betrayed the premise of the show. And, ya know, annoyed me.

You say "betrayed the premise," I say "subverted the audience's cozy expectations." It's not wrong for fiction to make you uncomfortable. If Whedon hadn't been determined to challenge the conventional expectations about what a show's premise should be, then we never would've had Buffy in the first place, let alone the rest of Whedon's ouevre. After all, it betrays the premise of a horror movie to have the ditzy blonde cheerleader kill the monster instead of the other way around.

 

[Kelthaz]

I thought that was great. After all of the demons and vampires, and monsters, I thought it was interesting to actually see them tackle something that Buffy and The Scoobies couldn't fight.

Season six had a great concept, but the execution was terrible.

 

[hux]

I enjoyed the recent Willow spin-off. Yeah sure, when she pulled Ultron's heart out, it was an Adam rip-off but what the hay.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The season 5 illness was apropos of the season arc/theme (which was just a more focused take on the show's overall theme) and would have been fine had the show ended as it was supposed to.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I agree totally. The show should have ended with her death. The fairly strong ambiguous ending with Angel was what made it so great in the first place.

Apparently the DH comics ruined it.

 

[JD]

Yes only vampires with souls and other types of chosen ones get to come back from the dead. Regular non-recurring secondary characters don't get that chance.

I thought the way they eventually addressed that worked pretty well. Guys we should probably be careful with this conversation, I don't think the OP has seen these episodes, and we're getting into some pretty big spoilers here.

 

[gblews]

Everybody knew who the good and bad singers where going into the project, and it didn't matter, because that was just part of the story.

And when possible, they assigned the songs accordingly, like giving Amber Benson this whole love song to sing in her glorious voice while Alyson Hannigan had maybe two or three sung lines in the whole episode.

"I think this line is mostly filler."

One of the things that just blew me away about OMWF was that each character's main song was not only written in that character's voice, but told who that character was within the context of the show, where that character's storyline was in the series, and where that character 's storyline was within the episode.

This was the first Buffy episode I ever saw. My daughter talked me into watching OMWF because she knows what a music lover I am. I expected to be underwhelmed to the point of embarrassment by the episode. To my utter shock, I loved the opening song (Going Through the Motions), and every one thereafter. But it took watching the entire series up to OMWF to get the real brilliance of the episode. They even gave us an in-story explanation for the singing and dancing that fit the show's premise. One of the episodes most beautiful melodies was a throw away -- talking about the lady and the cop scene.

But if it is true that Whedon "learned" to play guitar so he could write the songs, then he is an other level genius. Being a beginner guitarist is one thing, but writing is a whole different class of benefits.

I don't think a musical episode of this quality, all great original songs, tailored perfectly for each character, with dramatic impact which reverberates through the rest of the series, will ever happen again. Course I could be wrong. Maybe Steven Sondheim will one day get a show.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

^ And let's not forget the epic "They Got The Mustard Ouutt!"

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Vampires are vulnerable to a lot of things in this show they really shouldn't be vulnerable too.

Like, how would shooting a needle in Angel's artery actually distribute the poison throughout his body? I'm not even sure why a taser would stun a vampire. I suppose in that case it would still affect their muscles. And in season two, Spike uses a choke hold on Drusilla. Again, no circulation or oxygen.