Thoughts on "Generations"

[Lance]

...Essentially, the same was always true of TNG, where the E-D outgunned everybody in a way Kirk's old garbage scow never did. It was fun to see her brought down by a midget then!

Timo Saloniemi

I like the symbolism of that. A sort of 'David and Goliath', with Goliath being drawn as the hero ship for a change. But I just think maybe the execution wasn't so great. Don't really know why. Maybe it's because it all happens too fast. We didn't really see enough of the battle for it to feel like the BOP was really taking strips off of the Enterprise. The fight was all over in an instant, and yet we are then subsequently shown that the BOP (apparently by serendipity) managed to cause a coolant leak. As a means of taking down the ship that has been our hero ship for seven years, it was maybe all just a little too cheap.

 

[Galileo7]

...Essentially, the same was always true of TNG, where the E-D outgunned everybody in a way Kirk's old garbage scow never did. It was fun to see her brought down by a midget then!

Timo Saloniemi

I like the symbolism of that. A sort of 'David and Goliath', with Goliath being drawn as the hero ship for a change. But I just think maybe the execution wasn't so great. Don't really know why. Maybe it's because it all happens too fast. We didn't really see enough of the battle for it to feel like the BOP was really taking strips off of the Enterprise. The fight was all over in an instant, and yet we are then subsequently shown that the BOP (apparently by serendipity) managed to cause a coolant leak. As a means of taking down the ship that has been our hero ship for seven years, it was maybe all just a little too cheap.

Agree. It was ridiculous. It was "camp" with villainous Klingon sisters Lursa and B'Etor reacting like the villains from the '60s "camp" Batman tv series. The BOP taking out the 1701-D was stupid such as when in Batman (1989) film the Joker used a revolver to take down the Batwing. Give me a break. IMHO

 

[DWF]

Kirk's ship easily outgunned the Reliant and three Klingon BOPs they fought, Chang jsut had the advantage of being able to fire while cloaked. I did like it in the novel where upon returning to the Enterprise, Picard asked if they had any trouble with the Klingons.

 

[eyeresist]

It was "camp" with villainous Klingon sisters Lursa and B'Etor reacting like the villains from the '60s "camp" Batman tv series.

But that's basically how they were in the TV series.

 

[Galileo7]

It was "camp" with villainous Klingon sisters Lursa and B'Etor reacting like the villains from the '60s "camp" Batman tv series.

But that's basically how they were in the TV series.

But I still don't think that the first NG motion picture should have used such characters with an old BOP to take out a Galaxy class. Totally ridiculous "camp" was not worthy for the demise of the 1701-D. When Kirk auto-destructed the 1701-refit in SFS he did not lose the ship to "camp" Klingons or an inferior ship. Since the 1701 was undermanned, the BOP was a worthy opponent.
It would only have been believable if Klingon sisters Lursa and B'Etor had been in command of a Vor'cha-class attack cruiser.

 

[eyeresist]

I'd say the size of the Klingon ship is among the least of GEN's problems.

 

[Galileo7]

I'd say the size of the Klingon ship is among the least of GEN's problems.

Not the size of the BOP, but the BOP was stated as old and no match for a Galaxy class. Whereas the Vor'cha-class attack cruiser would be more an equal in armament.

You are right that the size of the Klingon ship is among the least of GEN's problems, e.g., the Nexus and the events of Kirk's death.

 

[eyeresist]

Can I get people's thoughts on Guinan, generally and in this movie? I'm not a hardcore TNG fan so I'm wondering how she is perceived.

 

[Shark]

Talking about "Generations" I'll first give my initial thoughts on the film as I saw it in '94 as a thirteen year old.

I thought it was great! But had hoped, from watching the trailers, that Kirk in the Enterprise-B and Picard in the Enterprise-D would have teamed-up to battle the Klingons, ship to ship. I was nearly brought to tears at the destruction of the crashed saucer section of the Enterprise-D, I thought for a second that the crew had actually died! Looking back, I realize just how much I loved the crew of the old seventeen-oh-one-dee. I kinda grew up with them, they were like old friends.

Today, I feel the plot has some major holes. I dig it on a different level than I did then. Love the crash sequence. Frakes has the perfect delivery. I almost feel a part of "true" Trek died with the ship. Roddenberry was such a part of all of that and the loss of his Enterprise and the odd character choices in the later movies kinda makes that all the more apparent. Love the humor and drama derived from Data's new found emotions. Kirks death feels wrong for the character; it was a foregone conclusion at the start of TNG that the original crew (save for McCoy and later Spock and Scotty), were all dead. It was better that way, I think. We still got to see them on the big screen at that time so I think it softened the blow, but with such a legendary character as Kirk any death scene they could have or would have written would never live up to expectations.

Beyond that, it's watchable. Admittedly though I used to watch it a lot more back in the 90's. I usually pass on it these days.

 

[Dukhat]

But had hoped, from watching the trailers, that Kirk in the Enterprise-B and Picard in the Enterprise-D would have teamed-up to battle the Klingons, ship to ship.

Yep, that trailer sure took things out of context, didn't it? Kinda like how the trailer for TPM made it look like Darth Maul would be in the entire film, not just the five minutes of total screentime he actually had.

 

[Galileo7]

...
But had hoped, from watching the trailers, that Kirk in the Enterprise-B and Picard in the Enterprise-D would have teamed-up to battle the Klingons, ship to ship. ...

Agree.
That would have been the film that Generations could have been and should have been. Instead of the producers foolishly worrying about replicating the NG"Yesterday's Enterprise" they should have just made a great film, not the weak film they unfortunately made.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Generations is the one where they promote Worf, give Data the emotion chip, kill Picard's family, explain Guinan and her people, kill Lursa and Betor, bring back Kirk, destroy the Enterprise and fight a genuine mad scientist and none of it was done especially well. They should have pick three or less elements and focused.

 

[FormerLurker]

That's "Bring back Kirk and Kill Him."

 

[eyeresist]

I don't think Guinan was explained in GEN.

 

[Dukhat]

I don't think Guinan was explained in GEN.

It explained how she found her way to the Federation, the name of her race, and possibly why she has the unique abilities she has.

 

[eyeresist]

That last is pure fan speculation, and she is not necessarily the same species as Soran.

 

[Dukhat]

That last is pure fan speculation...

That's why I said "possibly," although the film heavily implies that the Nexus is the reason for her abilities.

...and she is not necessarily the same species as Soran.

What? She was with the other El-Aurian refugees when she's rescued. It was clearly stated that Soran was El-Aurian, and that his planet was destroyed by the Borg, just like we knew about Guinan. What, you think she was just hitching a ride with some homeless people?

 

[gottacook]

Generations is the one where they promote Worf, give Data the emotion chip, kill Picard's family, explain Guinan and her people, kill Lursa and Betor, bring back Kirk, destroy the Enterprise and fight a genuine mad scientist and none of it was done especially well. They should have pick three or less elements and focused.

A very astute analysis.

I've got a good start at following your conclusion: Data gets the emotion ship, consequently goes to Ten Forward and gets drunk, then takes control of the ship and crashes the Enterprise into a mysterious planet. This is no sillier than the setup of most of the other TNG movies.

(The only trouble with such a plot is that it'd be difficult to include the Stellar Cartography room, to me the only memorable scene in the whole damn thing.)

No James Kirk; I believed then, and do now, that TUC was a completely satisfactory wrap-up for all of the original crew.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

I don't think Guinan was explained in GEN.

They give us a name for her race and introduce another. In interviews, I think it was Moore who said he was angling that Guinan's powers came from her still being linked to her echo alive in the Nexus. It's sure not apparent in the movie, though. Like I said, none of it done especially well.

I've got a good start at following your conclusion: Data gets the emotion ship, consequently goes to Ten Forward and gets drunk, then takes control of the ship and crashes the Enterprise into a mysterious planet. This is no sillier than the setup of most of the other TNG movies.

I'm sure this exists a fan edit. If not, it should.

(The only trouble with such a plot is that it'd be difficult to include the Stellar Cartography room, to me the only memorable scene in the whole damn thing.)

Great, memorable set.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I don't think Guinan was explained in GEN.

It explained how she found her way to the Federation, the name of her race, and possibly why she has the unique abilities she has.

The only thing that is said of the El-Aurians is that they're a race of listeners.