Scorpion

[mysticgeek]

Well, in my latest re-watch of Voyager, I am finally at "Scorpion (1)" very excited to relive these two. To me, this is one of the best stories of the series ever!

I do have a question though. When was this episode made?
I ask because Kes's hair is long and quite luxurious. And, I didn't pay attention in the previous episodes of when her hair was long. Was the episode "Before and After" the first time we see it long?

I am engaged in Scorpion, and am to lazy to go back and look

 

[Terok Nor]

Kes just had long flowing locks all of a sudden in "Before And After". Presumably it's possible to stimulate hair follicles to grow faster in the future given Seven, Janeway, Tuvok and Torres were all bald at one point. The real life reason for Kes' change in appearance is because the actress was allergic to the makeup used for Kes' ears so they ditched her wig and let her use her real hair to cover the ears.

Scorpion is probably the best episode of Voyager. Both parts.

 

[at Quark's]

Kes just had long flowing locks all of a sudden in "Before And After". Presumably it's possible to stimulate hair follicles to grow faster in the future given Seven, Janeway, Tuvok and Torres were all bald at one point. The real life reason for Kes' change in appearance is because the actress was allergic to the makeup used for Kes' ears so they ditched her wig and let her use her real hair to cover the ears.

Scorpion is probably the best episode of Voyager. Both parts.

My pet theory is that Kes witnessed the future in that episode and saw her future self with the long hairdo, which inspired her to change it in the "present".

Only problem with that is that she already has the long hair in the "present" in the biotemporal chamber when the doctor tries to eliminate the chronotons. But you know what they say .... never let those pesky facts ruin a good theory

I did like her new look way better than her traditional look. It doesn't show off her alien ears as well, though.

 

[Terok Nor]

Kes just had long flowing locks all of a sudden in "Before And After". Presumably it's possible to stimulate hair follicles to grow faster in the future given Seven, Janeway, Tuvok and Torres were all bald at one point. The real life reason for Kes' change in appearance is because the actress was allergic to the makeup used for Kes' ears so they ditched her wig and let her use her real hair to cover the ears.

Scorpion is probably the best episode of Voyager. Both parts.

My pet theory is that Kess witnessed the future in that episode and saw her future self with the long hairdo, which inspired her to change it in the "present".

Only problem with that is that she already has the long hair in the "present" in the biotemporal chamber when the doctor tries to eliminate the chronotons. But you know what they say .... never let those pesky facts ruin a good theory

I did like her new look way better than her traditional look. It doesn't show off her alien ears as well, though.

Agreed. It was a nice way to mature Kes. Just a shame she left soon after. I still think the wrong character was written out.

 

[mysticgeek]

Agreed. It was a nice way to mature Kes. Just a shame she left soon after. I still think the wrong character was written out.

At one point weren't they going to get rid of Harry Kim? But he ended up winning some "hottest person on TV" thing, so they decided to keep him.

 

[at Quark's]

Agreed. It was a nice way to mature Kes. Just a shame she left soon after. I still think the wrong character was written out.

At one point weren't they going to get rid of Harry Kim? But he ended up winning some "hottest person on TV" thing, so they decided to keep him.

I've heard that story many times. But I don't know how they were going to get rid of him. In-universe, I mean. Would that 8472 inflicted wound have proven fatal ? Would he have perished some other way? Or would he have found a DQ planet he liked enough to stay ? Or would he have ended up on earth somehow before the rest of the VOY crew ?

 

[hux]

Scorpion is a fun watch (and gives you the added excitement of knowing that Seven is coming and Kes is going). Sadly, it's also the first time we see erratic Janeway. She was mostly harmless up to this point but then the writers were so eager to justify getting Seven on board that they turned Janeway into a psycho to do it.

Another wasted Chakotay speech.

 

[mysticgeek]

Scorpion is a fun watch (and gives you the added excitement of knowing that Seven is coming and Kes is going). Sadly, it's also the first time we see erratic Janeway. She was mostly harmless up to this point but then the writers were so eager to justify getting Seven on board that they turned Janeway into a psycho to do it.

Another wasted Chakotay speech.

+1 on that, I just watched Scorpion 1 & 2 and The Gift...and I thought Janeway's character did seem to change, but I wasn't quite sure what it was...

 

[Catarina]

Scorpion is a fun watch (and gives you the added excitement of knowing that Seven is coming and Kes is going). Sadly, it's also the first time we see erratic Janeway. She was mostly harmless up to this point but then the writers were so eager to justify getting Seven on board that they turned Janeway into a psycho to do it.

Another wasted Chakotay speech.

+1 on that, I just watched Scorpion 1 & 2 and The Gift...and I thought Janeway's character did seem to change, but I wasn't quite sure what it was...

I didn't see my janeway again. Just the grumpy PTSD Janeway. Kate thought Janeway was a bit wimpy before. PUHLEASE. Take that back, Kate. (Unless she meant season one then yeah, kinda snooty brat).

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I have mixed feelings about this two-parter. Agreed it is a good story, but it is also really the beginning of the end for the VOY I had liked. Seven arrives and already starts to dominate the screen time of everyone else, then an episode later Kes is axed.

 

[at Quark's]

I have mixed feelings about this two-parter. Agreed it is a good story, but it is also really the beginning of the end for the VOY I had liked. Seven arrives and already starts to dominate the screen time of everyone else, then an episode later Kes is axed.

I agree. When I look back to early VOY episodes, every now and then I get the impression that at least they tried to do something different (although they only rarely succeeded, e.g. see the maquis/starfleet mixed crew "conflict" that petered out).

When 7 came on board, to me it felt like they had given up on that idea, and just pandered to the greatest common denominator using only elements that had proved to work before ("a sexy babe, trying to learn what it means to fit in with humanity and giving us an "outsider view"....").

It's not even that I dislike the character, or the way she is played, or the actress- I think Ryan did a good job, and the character 7 of 9 is a solid character. It's just the conceptual laziness and 'playing it safe' attitude I don't like.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

^ Completely agree at Quark's.

It got to the point where it felt (to me anyway) that every episode Seven was either the focus/cause/resolution of whatever issue the crew were facing that week.

 

[Jedman67]

^ Completely agree at Quark's.

It got to the point where it felt (to me anyway) that every episode Seven was either the focus/cause/resolution of whatever issue the crew were facing that week.

Data was the same in TNG, although not as much as in VOY.

 

[hux]

As far as I'm concerned, Seven's arrival cut the wheat from the chaff and the show tightened up and became much more focused. Janeway, Seven and the Doctor all prospered (and quite rightly as they were the three strongest characters) while Kim, Neelix and Chakotay all suffered. Tom and B'Elanna had a foot in both camps.

They had three years to make the ensemble work and couldn't. A change was necessary and when it happened, it was beneficial. Yeah, Seven's nano-probes solved basically every problem that came along but it was a small price to pay.

 

[Terok Nor]

I'd normally have a big problem with one character dominating a show but with the exceptions of Janeway and The Doctor the entire cast of Voyager was boring. Seven was the saving grace of the entire series.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Agreed. It was a nice way to mature Kes. Just a shame she left soon after. I still think the wrong character was written out.

At one point weren't they going to get rid of Harry Kim? But he ended up winning some "hottest person on TV" thing, so they decided to keep him.

I've heard that story many times. But I don't know how they were going to get rid of him. In-universe, I mean. Would that 8472 inflicted wound have proven fatal ? Would he have perished some other way? Or would he have found a DQ planet he liked enough to stay ? Or would he have ended up on earth somehow before the rest of the VOY crew ?

I'm inclined to say that the infection would have been fatal - you'll note that it gets rather simply resolved in Part II after all of this question of if it's even possible in Part I. They build up the idea that the infection is eating him alive, that he's dying in Part I, and then it's resolved in the space of a single scene in Part II.

 

[at Quark's]

As far as I'm concerned, Seven's arrival cut the wheat from the chaff and the show tightened up and became much more focused.

Janeway, Seven and the Doctor all prospered (and quite rightly as they were the three strongest characters) while Kim, Neelix and Chakotay all suffered. Tom and B'Elanna had a foot in both
camps.

Even though I can agree with most of that (including your division in strong and weak characters, though I'd put Neelix middle-tier), I simply didn't like what they were focusing on: a show mainly dedicated to the adventures of three 'action heroes' instead of the adventures of the (crew of) the lost ship voyager. From season 4 onward, it didn't really matter anymore they were lost in the Delta quadrant-- it could all have happened in the alpha quadrant for all I care. (Not that S1-S3 are free of that, but at least they tried. Sometimes.)

I'd really have liked to see the tale of the crew coping in the delta quadrant, but since that probably isn't feasible in the 45 minutes loose episode format (and 150 people is really to much to focus on if you want to be able to identify with some characters), I'd settle for the next best thing, which would be an ensemble cast show. Even if it includes some weaker characters.

For that, I'd rather have had the admittedly somewhat haphazard format of S1-S3.

But I suppose general ratings didn't agree with me.

 

[hux]

^I agree but they had three seasons to make the cast and premise work and they screwed it up. Focusing on the three strongest characters was damage control. I would have liked more exploration of the Delta quadrant, more Maquis conflict, more crew relationships and a greater sense of being a travelling community (Voyager often felt like a ship of 30 people rather then 130+).

But they made a mess then panicked and turned it into a show that focused on the top three. I don't blame them for doing that. I do blame them for screwing up the premise. You're probably right about Neelix too. He didn't suffer as much as others.