Am I the only one who dislikes the Enterprise-E?

[velour]

Re: Am I the only one who disliked the Enterprise-E?

I take your point that they are two *very* different ships. The D isn't a warship. The E isn't the D. But I guess my point really is more about the 'vibe' of The Next Generation, which I think got lost in the movies, and the E's new military aesthetic was a part of that. Tbh I feel the same way about the way Federation design progressed in DS9, and also the design of Voyager. But the differences are more stark with the 1701-E designs, because they were directly following on from the TNG show.

I guess my point is that after spending 7 years with TNG being a very particular thing, the idea that they *should* suddenly be 'intimidating' doesn't really match with my take on what the TV show was. It kind of takes TNG into a place where TNG doesn't really feel comfortable actually being TNG anymore... if you see what I mean.

I understand the point that you are making, at least I think I do.

The change in ship design from the D to the E was fairly dramatic. FC, where the E made its first appearance, was an abrupt departure from the laid back vibe of the series. Obviously, FC was fast paced and combat oriented. It was a big change from the tv show.

I can see why the writers did what they did. The D design was more in tune with the laid back mood of the tv show while the E was a better fit for the fast pace combat of the movie.

Do you think it would have worked out visually if the FC and NEM movies had continued to use the D version?

Whether the TNG movies should have gone to a fast paced storyline or stuck with a more (what's the right word to use) cerebral theme more in line with the tv show, I guess that's different matter to consider.

 

[Lance]

Re: Am I the only one who disliked the Enterprise-E?

Do you think it would have worked out visually if the FC and NEM movies had continued to use the D version?

Very interesting question. First Contact was as you say a combat orientated movie, and had it's own unique aesthetic -- I actually think the 1701-E fits better into that aesthetic, it arguably looks its best when its facing down the Borg. The look of FC is unified. To be fair, I have a hard time imagining the 1701-D in that movie, although for long time viewers I'd argue that seeing the familiar corridors of 1701-D be slowly 'Borgified' would have had a lot more emotional wallop than seeing it happen to the relatively unfamiliar corridors of the 1701-E. I did find it hard to attach myself to the new ship even in 1996. When Picard sets the self-destruct and simply talks about the Enterprise in such a throw-away way ("There are plenty more letters in the alphabet."), as a viewer that's kind of how *I* feel about 1701-E. I don't feel the same kind of emotional attachment to it that I did to the D.

 

[slappy]

I like the E for alot of the reasons some people don't.

I don't like an artsy spaceship with elegant curves and all that. I like a machine that looks like it was designed to get the job done.

I thought the Enterprise D looked like a goofy space dolphin was glad it got destroyed.

 

[Lance]

1701-D was certainly more stylised, even in-universe. It was designed to look the way it did. 1701-E, on the other hand, was definitely more utilitarian. There's some sense of richness to the textures, especially in Insurrection where we got to see a lot more of the non-functional areas of the ship (corridors etc) in something resembling 'normal' duty conditions. But it's got a darker 'rusty' tone which, I think, you'll either love or hate depending on whether you loved or hated the D. It's almost the complete opposite of the D in every major sense, inside and out, so if the D aesthetic was never to your tastes to begin with, then the E almost certainly would be.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Am I the only one who disliked the Enterprise-E?

Ironically, John Eaves admits his original design for the E "looked like a Chicken in a pan".

Fire on the mountain, run boys run
Picard's in the house of the rising sun
Chicken in the bread pan, pickin' out dough
Worf, does your Targ bite? No, child, no

 

[eyeresist]

From the uniforms, to the sets, to the filming model, *nothing* aboard 1701-E carries over any of the warmth of 1701-D, which is something that I reckon was as much a part of the TV show as any of the main characters.

The D was too warm and fuzzy. It seemed more like a pleasure cruise ship than a warship. The D should have been used as a luxury passenger liner for space tourism.

It was The Love Boat in space! I guess for those who grew up with it that's a good thing, but for the rest of us...

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWyxZR69CI0[/yt]

(You made a bunch of other good points too, Velour.)

It's almost the complete opposite of the D in every major sense, inside and out, so if the D aesthetic was never to your tastes to begin with, then the E almost certainly would be.

I think you have basically summarised the issues.

 

[Jeffe525]

People really need to stop saying the that Sovereign class was designed to fight the Borg. There is nothing in canon that states this. Nothing. It's purely fandom.

True that... especially when you consider the fact that designing, producing, and testing these larger ships takes the better part of a decade before the first ones come off the line.

The Sovereign was probably originally designed to fill pre-war Starfleet priorities. We can speculate that change orders affected development and tweaked design specs to fit new needs, but you can only change the original design so much once it goes to production. Either way, I've also never heard that it was designed specifically to be a war ship.

 

[Jeffe525]

I don't like the E-E either. It's smashed flat, has weird pointy nacelles, and that swoosh-deck on the bottom of the saucer -yuk. And I never noticed it until now, but E-E does look like Excelsior 2.0 (which I never liked).

However, I do like the darker paint job as well as the interior (I prefer the space-efficient, utilitarian interior design like Voyager).

For the record, E-Refit/A was my favorite, followed by E-D. I also like the J.J. Enterprise (in and out), but it would look better if they spread those beefier nacelles out a little more.

 

[Lance]

I'm actually a defender of the JJ-Prise design. Objectively I can see the problems that people have with it, but subjectively I thought it achieved a surprising amount in being a kind of amalgalm of everything that was good about all the other Enterprise's, inside and out.

 

[at Quark's]

I like the E for alot of the reasons some people don't.

I don't like an artsy spaceship with elegant curves and all that. I like a machine that looks like it was designed to get the job done.

I thought the Enterprise D looked like a goofy space dolphin was glad it got destroyed.

Yeah, but the (intended) job for the ent-D was exploration, and diplomatic missions, hence, of a peaceful nature (We even see a lot of civilians aboard in the earlier seasons). And its design was well suited for that.

Only they got involved into combat situations a bit too frequently during TNG's run (I mean, from a starfleet perspective, not from our perspective as viewers), and one might wonder if these experiences also lead to a re-evaluation of Starfleet notions what their 'flagship' was supposed to look like ...

My personal opinion: the ent-E looks sleek, mean and fast, and I can appreciate the design for that. But I do miss the 'friendliness' of the ent-D, which I just like more.

 

[Tim Walker]

People really need to stop saying the that Sovereign class was designed to fight the Borg. There is nothing in canon that states this. Nothing. It's purely fandom.

True that... especially when you consider the fact that designing, producing, and testing these larger ships takes the better part of a decade before the first ones come off the line.

The Sovereign was probably originally designed to fill pre-war Starfleet priorities. We can speculate that change orders affected development and tweaked design specs to fit new needs, but you can only change the original design so much once it goes to production. Either way, I've also never heard that it was designed specifically to be a war ship.

Star Fleet tried the Galaxy class (a city ship with families aboard) in the exploration role.

This might have worked if all was peaceful. But would you send into combat a ship with children aboard?

I had figured that the Sovereign design was intended as a replacement for the aging Excelsiors, but what if it was intended as a reincarnation of the old Constitution class?

In effect, an updated Constitution class. And no children on board, and few if any civilians.

Perhaps the Borg appeared at a point where it was still feasible to upgrade the combat capabilities of the new design.

 

[DWF]

I liked the look of E-E, it took a while for me because I had become so attached to the E-D. But the E-E is sleeker and the bridge feels like a real widescreen styled bridge and the ship itself feels like a real upgrade. It's a shame though that the only Sovereign class vessel we saw was the E-E, i would've loved to seen one of them go against the Jem Hadar superbattleship.

 

[Lance]

I liked the look of E-E, it took a while for me because I had become so attached to the E-D. But the E-E is sleeker and the bridge feels like a real widescreen styled bridge and the ship itself feels like a real upgrade. It's a shame though that the only Sovereign class vessel we saw was the E-E, i would've loved to seen one of them go against the Jem Hadar superbattleship.

Of course, the real-life reason for that is because the studio didn't want the movie's ''hero ship'' to appear on TV (a similar reason for why the Constituion-refit wasn't pressed into service on TNG, although there were a few occasions when they did consider it). For branding purposes, they wanted to try and keep some sense of seperation between TV and movies. Personally I agree with you, it's a big pity we never got to see one go up against the Jem Hadar.

 

[Jeffe525]

Of course, the real-life reason for that is because the studio didn't want the movie's ''hero ship'' to appear on TV (a similar reason for why the Constituion-refit wasn't pressed into service on TNG, although there were a few occasions when they did consider it)...

Say what???? Unless they also considered having TNG take place just a few years after the TOS movies, why would they ever think about using the movies refit or E-A in TNG? Those ships would have been like 120 years old by then!

That's like trying to watch The Hunt for Red October using the U.S.S. Constitution (old Iron Sides) as the hero-ship and hoping people don't throw shit at the screen.

Source, please??? I need to see this for myself.

 

[RunawayStarShip]

There were a bunch of test CGI models of a Constitution refit Enterprise for TNG that was shown in one of the now-defunct Best Buy Blu-ray online extras.

It doesn't seem right in hindsight, but back in 1986-87, it would have been a plausible cost-saving measure to have a Constitution refit-shaped hero ship for TNG. (Just blur the decals in stock footage, or change the decals to "NCC-1701-D" or whatever on an existing model.)

After all, a lot of naval ships look similar to their predecessors from the WWI-era onward. A Constitution-class-shaped frame housing modern equipment could have been explained away as a continuation of Starfleet's heavy cruiser line. (Excelsior-shaped ships might have been Starfleet's "battleships", Miranda-shaped ships would have been "light cruisers", etc.)

For example, the USS Constellation NCC-1017 might not be a "Starship Class" vessel as far as we know. It might have been the 17th production ship of the 10th cruiser design originally housing much older equipment than the Enterprise (1st production ship of the 17th cruiser design). All they may have in common is their outward appearance.

 

[Lance]

Of course, the real-life reason for that is because the studio didn't want the movie's ''hero ship'' to appear on TV (a similar reason for why the Constituion-refit wasn't pressed into service on TNG, although there were a few occasions when they did consider it)...

Say what???? Unless they also considered having TNG take place just a few years after the TOS movies, why would they ever think about using the movies refit or E-A in TNG? Those ships would have been like 120 years old by then!

A good portion of TNG's fleet seems to be made up of Excelsiors. They aren't much newer than the Constitution-refit in the grand scheme of things. But the real reason the Connie-refits were never used on TNG was because Paramount Pictures only wanted them associated with the TOS movies for marketing purposes. The same rule was informally in place for the use of the Sovereign Class outside of the movies, which is why DS9 wasn't even allowed to use them (even though it'd make SENSE to see a Sovereign or two in the Dominion War battle sequences).

 

[Starfury]

My personal opinion: the ent-E looks sleek, mean and fast

That's what I love about her. She looks like a panther, eager to dash right to infinity and beyond. "There's the frontier, let's go go go, come on, let's go, over there, let's go go go, faster, faster, always faster. Hey, there's something on my way?! OUTA MY WAY, OR I'LL JUST SMASH RIGHT THROUGH YOU!"

The E-D is more like "oh... that's nice... moving through space a bit... on impuls... it's so comfy outa here... Oh, look a particle! Sensors on full. Lets just... stay here and watch it a few hours."

 

[martok2112]

My personal opinion: the ent-E looks sleek, mean and fast

That's what I love about her. She looks like a panther, eager to dash right to infinity and beyond. "There's the frontier, let's go go go, come on, let's go, over there, let's go go go, faster, faster, always faster. Hey, there's something on my way?! OUTA MY WAY, OR I'LL JUST SMASH RIGHT THROUGH YOU!"

The E-D is more like "oh... that's nice... moving through space a bit... on impuls... it's so comfy outa here... Oh, look a particle! Sensors on full. Lets just... stay here and watch it a few hours."

Well told!

 

[eyeresist]

Oh, look a particle! Sensors on full.

That was a great two-parter.

 

[martok2112]

"Weapons to maximum!"

Oh...wait...that was SG1