It would seem odd to restart the warp engines from the impulse control center.
How many shuttlecraft did the Enterprise have?
- Thread starter JonnyQuest037
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It would seem odd to restart the warp engines from the impulse control center.
This discussion illustrates that some things weren't really thought through or that production concerns overrode a dedication to technical accuracy.
As fans we have the luxury of time to really flesh this out. But the producers usually didn't plan these things out in too much detail until they actually needed something and then there was a degree of winging it to get the show made.
And this all comes back to the poor producers never having a clue these things would be scrutinized for decades on end and fans expecting it all to fit together seamlessly.
As fans we have the luxury of time to really flesh this out. But the producers usually didn't plan these things out in too much detail until they actually needed something and then there was a degree of winging it to get the show made.
And this all comes back to the poor producers never having a clue these things would be scrutinized for decades on end and fans expecting it all to fit together seamlessly.
Bingo.
So what were sub-level parking garages called, in TOS lingo?
This is something I've been meaning to look anyway, but since we're talking about them now . . ..
In TMoST, MJ's cross section of the Hangar Deck calls out an "Elevator" which would suggest some area below for maintenance and storage of shuttles. Plus we know at least that there are more than one shuttle, but never more than one seen in the shuttle bay so they must be lowered and stored somewhere.
So the idea of a lower area to use as a garage goes back to at least the season 2-season 3 interim, as that's when TMoST was written.
As for on-screen verbiage, I recall the shuttle facilities variously being referred to as the "flight deck," the "hangar deck," and the "shuttle bay." I think it depended on who was typing the script. Personally, I would suggest the "shuttle bay" and the "flight deck" are basically the same thing, the space that opens up and the shuttle flies out of or in to, and the "hangar deck" could be the lower area that MJ's elevator goes to. But that intent is not so clear on-screen.
--Alex
Thanks. I tend to think of "shuttle bay" as a TNG-era term, so I usually call it it the "landing bay" or "hangar deck" or combination thereof.
Not sure what the parking garage is officially called, although I'm guessing I wouldn't get away with "parking garage."
I did. They're huge there too.
Well no one including the mods have ever complained so it doesn't look like there's a problem and I've been doing it the same way for years.
I think "flight deck," "shuttle or shuttlecraft bay" and "hangar deck" have all been used to mean the same thing depending on the writer.
Technically I would think the main area we see onscreen is the flight deck and that term has been used onscreen (re: "The Galileo Seven"). No craft are stored there except maybe one that appears to be always at ready. Technically the deck or area below would be the hangar deck because craft are berthed as well as serviced there. So it could be called "hangar deck," "maintenance deck," "service deck" or "service bay" or some other such descriptive since no specific reference was ever made to this area onscreen.
Personally I like Shuttlecraft Flight Deck for the familiar upper area and Shuttlecraft Service Deck for the unseen lower area.
Although I didn't show it in my model I envisioned a panel sliding into place when the turntable/elevator is lowered. That would allow more flexibility in moving auxiliary craft around. That way all four shuttlecraft could be stored below and freeing up the Flight Deck to accommodate retrieved craft or perhaps a specialized vehicle such as one of the TAS type shuttlecraft on a temporary basis.
My idea of what a live-action version of the shuttlecraft seen in TAS' "The Slaver Weapon" could look like.
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Thanks for the notes on hangar jargon. Like you said, this is the stuff of technical manuals and fanon, since it was never actually dealt with onscreen. But I like the idea of service deck or service bay.
(Granted, it's entirely possible that there's already a standard term used in the novels that I've never had occasion to notice before.)
(Granted, it's entirely possible that there's already a standard term used in the novels that I've never had occasion to notice before.)
Enterprise has the same Main Engineering from S2 on. Most Treknolgists from the old school always assumed that the S1 set was really Impulse Engineering in the Saucer on Deck 7 (where Main Engineering was originally supposed to be per production materials).
You can see the Main Engineering 2nd door through the red mesh on the left side of this cap from "Journey to Babel"
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x10hd/journeytobabelhd0182.jpg
I don't have FJ, but they've been included in licensed works like the FASA deck plans since the early 80s.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-enterprise-fasa-15mm-deck-plans-sheet-18.jpg
Ok, found a scan from FJ's stuff:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/star-trek-blueprints-sheet-5.jpg
yes, the maintenance shop is on them.
It would also be odd for them to be manning the impulse control room when Scott tells them they'll be warping out a half-second after getting the command.
The Naked Time said:
I've never given it much thought until now, but Riley taking over the impulse deck makes no sense within the context of the episode.
OTOH...why would turning off the warp engines cause them to lose control of the ship and spiral towards the planet? If they had impulse, why couldn't they use it to at least get out of orbit and start getting some distance from the planet?
I don't think they'd put the thought into the different propulsion systems yet. It was simply, "the engines are off, we can't move the ship away," and that was so intuitive that I'd never given it any thought beyond that.
Although not expressed in the episode, it could be that Riley turned off both engines, and it was a matter of prioritizing which set to get started.
I don't think they'd put the thought into the different propulsion systems yet. It was simply, "the engines are off, we can't move the ship away," and that was so intuitive that I'd never given it any thought beyond that.
Although not expressed in the episode, it could be that Riley turned off both engines, and it was a matter of prioritizing which set to get started.
It's important to remember that there was a certain amount of retconning going on while TOS was still in production as certain things were changed for various reasons (lasers became phasers, lithium became dilithium, and Main Engineering moved from the saucer to the secondary hull).
Some of them you just have to say "retcon" and move on. Engineering's location, however, has a workaround that lets you reconcile the two with minimal effort.
Riley deprived the bridge of all control of the ship, not just warp drive:
KIRK: Helmsman, stabilise position.
BRENT: Helm is not answering to control.
KIRK: Warp us out of here.
BRENT: No response from engines, sir.
KIRK: Impulse power then. Blast us out of this orbit.
BRENT: Impulse engines also dead, sir.
SPOCK: Engine room, we need power!
KIRK: Mister Scott, acknowledge. Our controls are dead. Take her.
BRENT: Helm is not answering to control.
KIRK: Warp us out of here.
BRENT: No response from engines, sir.
KIRK: Impulse power then. Blast us out of this orbit.
BRENT: Impulse engines also dead, sir.
SPOCK: Engine room, we need power!
KIRK: Mister Scott, acknowledge. Our controls are dead. Take her.
Yeah, I won't get pissy about it *this* time
, but next time, just start a new thread if one is that old. If it's absolutely necessary to refer to something in the old thread, then link back to it.Thanks.
The door sign to that room reads "Engineering Control Room" or somesuch, so not necessarily just "impulse" goes on in there.
In any case, given that the buttons and levers all control machinery remotely, it doesn't really matter where the room is located, does it?
This is one of those sleights of hand on the show. In reality the original Engine Room was a more modest set (with those neat big bits of machinery the evil Kirk was able to hide behind) because they didn't think they'd spend much time there. Later they realized they needed something more elaborate and modified the original set and made it bigger. All the while it's (wink, wink) really meant to be accepted as the same locale.
But as fans we interpret the disparity in sets as depicting two distinctly different parts of the ship.
But as fans we interpret the disparity in sets as depicting two distinctly different parts of the ship.
This is a good example of Trek being more than the sum of the individual contributions in writing, acting, costuming or setbuilding. The Engineering set grew in proportion to the plot needs and the budgets - but Engineering as a story concept grew faster than that, becoming a vast maze where characters could hide indefinitely, and thus taking it the full circle back to the implicit story needs of "The Enemy Within", or indeed the very concept of an "engineering hull"...
Yes, the more we have Engineering, the less we have Hangar space for the poor shuttles. But we hit no hard limits yet even if we assume that all the minor and major variations of the Engineering set represented different rooms within the secondary hull. A dozen shuttles could still be stored with ease, say, in a multiple Ferris wheel arrangement at the unseen front end of the landing bay (giving justification for the misspelling "Hanger" in the signage!).
Very much agreed. Access to the ship's vast powers is through consoles, and some of that access is only through select consoles - but any such "select" console will do, after which a malicious lockout is just a matter of hacking skills or user privileges. This holds true for all the spinoffs and would seem to hold for TOS as well... And it makes good real-world sense, too.
Riley may have chosen to do his sabotage from that particular corner of Engineering because
a) that's where he was sitting
b) that's where his user rights were in force
c) that's where his skills allowed him to achieve his goals
d) that's where there were no others to oppose him at the time
e) in his drunken state, none of the above really applied, but a) was kinda important because getting to some other place would have involved a lot of stumbling and crawling.
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, the more we have Engineering, the less we have Hangar space for the poor shuttles. But we hit no hard limits yet even if we assume that all the minor and major variations of the Engineering set represented different rooms within the secondary hull. A dozen shuttles could still be stored with ease, say, in a multiple Ferris wheel arrangement at the unseen front end of the landing bay (giving justification for the misspelling "Hanger" in the signage!).
Very much agreed. Access to the ship's vast powers is through consoles, and some of that access is only through select consoles - but any such "select" console will do, after which a malicious lockout is just a matter of hacking skills or user privileges. This holds true for all the spinoffs and would seem to hold for TOS as well... And it makes good real-world sense, too.
Riley may have chosen to do his sabotage from that particular corner of Engineering because
a) that's where he was sitting
b) that's where his user rights were in force
c) that's where his skills allowed him to achieve his goals
d) that's where there were no others to oppose him at the time
e) in his drunken state, none of the above really applied, but a) was kinda important because getting to some other place would have involved a lot of stumbling and crawling.
Timo Saloniemi
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