Star Trek: Renegades

[CRM-114]

The more I think about it, the more I want to take a stab at doing a "Karzak cut" of this film.

I mean, how much worse could it possibly get?

I'm a little surprised the fan edits haven't started already, since that's been one of the biggest recurring complaints.

...

The more I think about Renegades, the more I'm convinced this could've been a truly great movie. The premise is solid to me. Here's a perfect opportunity to look at the Star Trek universe from a different perspective. Step back and think about it; when we're shown life in the Federation, it's usually from the point of view of someone in Starfleet, and that POV is usually presented as the "right" one.

Since the view we're typically given is filtered through the rather narrow perspective of Starfleet and all it represents, here's the chance to show that the Starfleet way isn't the way everyone (or perhaps even most people) does things. If nothing else, it's an opportunity to see "how the other (non-Starfleet) half lives."

But, like so many other movies before it, Renegades' premise is mired in bad execution. I tend to think that in different hands, this could've been a movie we'd be collectively celebrating instead of picking it apart.

 

[Maurice]

The more I think about it, the more I want to take a stab at doing a "Karzak cut" of this film.

I mean, how much worse could it possibly get?

I think you'll find a bat'leth is a rather clumsy editing tool.

 

[BillJ]

The more I think about it, the more I want to take a stab at doing a "Karzak cut" of this film.

I mean, how much worse could it possibly get?

I think you'll find a bat'leth is a rather clumsy editing tool.

But the first cut looks like it was done with a spoon. So how much worse can it get?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

The more I think about it, the more I want to take a stab at doing a "Karzak cut" of this film.

I mean, how much worse could it possibly get?

I was thinking about doing the same thing, just cutting most of the CGI effects in half would speed things up. I've already started compiling a list of edits, but unsure if it is even worth it.

The problem with a fan edit, is that much f the needed expository dialogue is missing, so even if you cut some of the unnecessary bloat out, it would still be clunky....

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

We've seen more than enough with Prelude and the teaser scene to get a good idea of just about everything technical about that productions capabilities. The scripting and dialogue are tight. The FX shots are first rate. The acting is high quality. The music, sound design, and editing are all excellent.

Abut the only thing that comes close in Renegades is the FX work, and it has some problematic moments (like the dilithium mine).

Even Phase II's "Blood and Fire" is diluted by being stretched to two episodes. ("Perhaps 'because it is there' is not sufficient reason for producing a rejected script from 30 years ago...")

"Blood and Fire" 's biggest problem is that when Gerrald finally got turned loose to write the script "his way" w/o a strong producer over him to keep things balanced he decided to "wave the bloody shirt" regarding the gay characters. It was WAY over-emphaized and preachy.

And the death scene for Peter's lover was just over the top Harlequin Romance-level sappy. Utterly unprofessional behavior for Starfleet officers.

Sorry on my phone and it was a pain to cut out what I didn't want to quote, but, we haven't seen anything from Axanar. Prelude is a 20minute talking head fauxumentry. What prelude demonstrated was they can light a scene properly, use a green screen properly and other basics. What they did was the easiest form of film making possible.

 

[BillJ]

Sorry on my phone and it was a pain to cut out what I didn't want to quote, but, we haven't seen anything from Axanar. Prelude is a 20minute talking head fauxumentry. What prelude demonstrated was they can light a scene properly, use a green screen properly and other basics. What they did was the easiest form of film making possible.

This.

They were able to make a faux documentary where nothing happens except talk. Being able to create a traditional narrative is going to be a bit more involved.

Look at the professionals on Renegades and how poorly the final product actually is. I think folks may be in for a let down if we ever see a final Axanar film.

 

[Amaris]

I do have supremely high hopes for Axanar. I do give Renegades a tough time, but it's because I expected so much, and maybe I shouldn't have. No matter how professional the actors, or the people behind the camera, it still came out as a fan film that was aimless, missing so many crucial elements, and it stings. I want fan films to succeed. We're not getting any of this Trek anymore from the big guys, and while I love NuTrek, I still like the old universe, too.

I just don't get what went wrong, though. Tim Russ is a talented man, with experience in the world of television production, direction, and acting. It boggles my mind.

 

[BillJ]

I just don't get what went wrong, though. Tim Russ is a talented man, with experience in the world of television production, direction, and acting. It boggles my mind.

I think money is a far more important factor in the creative process than anyone gives it credit for.

For $300,000 (or even $2 million), you need a sparkling script that requires sparse resources. Two guys in space suits walking across an alien vista trying to survive. Not space battles, thirty actors and tons of sets.

 

[Trekkin]

Maybe he didn't do his own editing? Or maybe he did, but previously had never done it before?

 

[Karzak]

I find that extremely unlikely. As the director, he absolutely had a hand in editing the final picture. Tom could probably elaborate further on that, if he ever chooses to do so.

But, as has been duly mentioned, all the problems with Renegades really originate with its script.

 

[Amaris]

I just don't get what went wrong, though. Tim Russ is a talented man, with experience in the world of television production, direction, and acting. It boggles my mind.

I think money is a far more important factor in the creative process than anyone gives it credit for.

For $300,000 (or even $2 million), you need a sparkling script that requires sparse resources. Two guys in space suits walking across an alien vista trying to survive. Not space battles, thirty actors and tons of sets.

True. Budget can make or break you, and in this case it broke them. Being ambitious is great, but being ambitious within the budget is even better. One can tell stories that are larger than life, while still operating on a shoestring, it just requires a more creative approach. That boat was missed here, methinks.

 

[BillJ]

And, as has been duly mentioned, all the problems with Renegades originate with its script.

There were issues with the sets as well. Everything was so dark, likely because the money didn't exist to build detailed sets. And the CGI was pretty bad for the most part.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I do have supremely high hopes for Axanar. I do give Renegades a tough time, but it's because I expected so much, and maybe I shouldn't have. No matter how professional the actors, or the people behind the camera, it still came out as a fan film that was aimless, missing so many crucial elements, and it stings. I want fan films to succeed. We're not getting any of this Trek anymore from the big guys, and while I love NuTrek, I still like the old universe, too.

I just don't get what went wrong, though. Tim Russ is a talented man, with experience in the world of television production, direction, and acting. It boggles my mind.

I have dropped my support of Axanar, for what I see as a trend in over promising and under delivering... Whether it's production schedule, perk delivery.. And the whole budget thing, I honestly don't expect this film to ever be completed... Because if the diminishing returns on fundraisers continues its gonna need another 2-3 fundraisers at a minimum.....

 

[Amaris]

I just really want to know who thought yellow was a great idea? Granted, it's a stylistic choice, but I think it was a bad one. It was so easy for me to tell the bridge of the Archer was just a wall, because I saw those same walls at Starfleet HQ. They were immediately identifiable, and when a prop is easily identifiable from scene to scene, it stands out like a sore thumb.

I have dropped my support of Axanar, for what I see as a trend in over promising and under delivering... Whether it's production schedule, perk delivery.. And the whole budget thing, I honestly don't expect this film to ever be completed... Because if the diminishing returns on fundraisers continues its gonna need another 2-3 fundraisers at a minimum.....

The overpromising thing, I get. These guys will hype it up because they need money, and they want people to watch. I get that. It's the other parts that newer fan productions are doing, which is the "we're taking it to CBS and getting a show!" To me, that is the underhandedness I find so distasteful. Confidence is one thing, but hubris is another entirely.

 

[BillJ]

I just really want to know who thought yellow was a great idea? Granted, it's a stylistic choice, but I think it was a bad one. It was so easy for me to tell the bridge of the Archer was just a wall, because I saw those same walls at Starfleet HQ. They were immediately identifiable, and when a prop is easily identifiable from scene to scene, it stands out like a sore thumb.

The thing that bothered me was they kept focusing on that picture of Chekov and Sulu near the door.

"Look! See! It really is Star Trek!"

They should've at least painted the wall.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Battlefield earth... Great visuals... Huge budget.... Horrible movie...

 

[CRM-114]

I just really want to know who thought yellow was a great idea? Granted, it's a stylistic choice, but I think it was a bad one. It was so easy for me to tell the bridge of the Archer was just a wall, because I saw those same walls at Starfleet HQ. They were immediately identifiable, and when a prop is easily identifiable from scene to scene, it stands out like a sore thumb.

I would guess that it's meant to be a visual contrast to the world of the Renegades, but they could've done that without using such a garish shade of yellow. It seems like staring at that shade of yellow for too long would sear your retinas.

 

[Amaris]

The thing that bothered me was they kept focusing on that picture of Chekov and Sulu near the door.

"Look! See! It really is Star Trek!"

They should've at least painted the wall.

Yeah, the picture kept getting my attention, too.

I would guess that it's meant to be a visual contrast to the world of the Renegades, but they could've done that without using such a garish shade of yellow. It seems like staring at that shade of yellow for too long would sear your retinas.

Dingy yellow, and dingy grey do not a great contrast make. Also, yeah, I'd have gone granddaughter hand bomb crazy too, if all I saw were yellow walls.

 

[CRM-114]

J. Allen, "granddaughter hand bomb crazy" sounds like a Red Hot Chili Peppers lyric.

 

[Amaris]

J. Allen, "granddaughter hand bomb crazy" sounds like a Red Hot Chili Peppers lyric.

Really? I was thinking it had more of a "Beck" vibe, myself.

"Old man security,
in a yellow office,
granddaughter hand bomb,
acting saves the forest."