I liked the movie I thought it was a good story.
Yay, it's not just me. What was your favorite part?
Star Trek: Renegades
- Thread starter Danlav05
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Yay, it's not just me. What was your favorite part?
Okay, here's a bit more detailed response on a re-watch. Let's take this scene-by-scene.
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Thumbs: hooked in belt-loop while chewing Siphonian hunt-weed.
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Stopping there for now.
Actually re-watching gives me a better appreciation of the movie so far and what I do and don't like about it. There's a lot of cheesiness and uneven work, but the core of the material so far is entertaining; even the bad is the kind of bad that a B-movie enthusiast can appreciate, which is to say that this is pretty clearly the sort of thing I could watch with my bro and a bucket of popcorn and take the mickey out of and still have fun. (Which might seem like faint praise, but it reflects a sincerity at the core of the endeavour that can't be faked -- as many a movie that's tried to be B-movie bad/good in this way has found out.)
Opening Sequence: music not bad. Attractive female, check. Impassioned voiceover, check. (One of the things I liked most in Renegades was the use of the "Invictus" poem as a through-line for Lexxa's character. Whoever had that idea? Solid. Give that man an Orion slave-girl, except don't assume it's a man or that Orion slave-girls are an appropriate medium of exchange, because what in a bucket of bolts is wrong with you?) Levels a bit off on the voice track vs. the music there. Do I know who this is, why their... apparent prison cell is so spacious, or why they're writing on the wall in chalk? Nope. Do I care? Nope. Do I want to know more? Please, it's Adrienne Wilkinson. YES I want to know more.
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Okay, incredibly cheap-looking effects wise, can't lie -- that flame effect is curiously reminiscent of the glory days of the Video Toaster -- but in a charming B-movie sort of way. Fairly generic hunter-warrior species? Check. The troubled father-son pair behind that make-up are chewing the heck out of whatever scenery they can get near, I'm digging that. And then, a mysterious obelisk! And then, BZZZAAMM! One of Our Planets Is Missing! I can dig it.
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Lieutenant Masaru's got that Vulcan precision down. "Someone or something." Nice work, Lieutenant! Chekhov appears, looking severely in need of a nap, and orders the computer into "shadow mode," which apparently is an "added drama" subroutine. He and an inexplicably-shadowed Tuvok -- maybe shadow mode throws shade on Vulcans? -- have a conversation about how the Federation is facing a situation in which planets are missing and the events of the TNG "Conspiracy" storyline are playing out simultaneously. Chilling indeed.
And of course the Council will do nothing, because... well, honestly I would mock this, but then I remember the past decade in Congress and it's like, "oh yeah." And then Tuvok walks out of the shadows in a sudden shakey-cam shot that's at an angle and that seems to be telling me this is Dramatic As Heck, and he says "I know of such a crew" and I ain't lying, it's damned good to see you again, Tim Russ, you were the only part of Voyager I consistently liked, so okay.
And of course the Council will do nothing, because... well, honestly I would mock this, but then I remember the past decade in Congress and it's like, "oh yeah." And then Tuvok walks out of the shadows in a sudden shakey-cam shot that's at an angle and that seems to be telling me this is Dramatic As Heck, and he says "I know of such a crew" and I ain't lying, it's damned good to see you again, Tim Russ, you were the only part of Voyager I consistently liked, so okay.
Thumbs: hooked in belt-loop while chewing Siphonian hunt-weed.
I must immediately apologize for that "nap" crack about Koenig because goddamn, look at that Asian guy at helm. I swear to Christ there are shots where he has literally nodded off.
Anyway, Captain Alvarez of the U.S.S. Archer seems a peppy, gettin'-things-done sort of fellow, like him already. Also, best use of the word "pulchritudinous" since Laurence Olivier last macked on a passing lady at Happy Hour. The Icarus crew, meanwhile -- who are So Frakking Ragtag that their costumes all came from shows of totally different genres and time periods -- are resourceful but struggling under the leadership of some jagoff wearing almost exactly the same Eighties Glam-rock Wig as that Baran guy in the TNG episode where Picard went undercover as a smuggler.
They do however have a massively powerful ship which they presumably stole at some point. Is there backstory there? Presumably? Do I want to know? Nope. Good call Renegades. Pretty sweet space battle ensues, Icarus escapes and steals the cargo, Captain Alvarez curses "Bucket of bolts!" like he just finished watching an episode of Middle-Man, and we learn that "Lexxa" would never be as stupid as the guy who's talking like the Cookie Monster and who actually does the "Mwaaaa-hah-hah-hah-haaaah" laugh. Good, cheesy fun all round.
Anyway, Captain Alvarez of the U.S.S. Archer seems a peppy, gettin'-things-done sort of fellow, like him already. Also, best use of the word "pulchritudinous" since Laurence Olivier last macked on a passing lady at Happy Hour. The Icarus crew, meanwhile -- who are So Frakking Ragtag that their costumes all came from shows of totally different genres and time periods -- are resourceful but struggling under the leadership of some jagoff wearing almost exactly the same Eighties Glam-rock Wig as that Baran guy in the TNG episode where Picard went undercover as a smuggler.
They do however have a massively powerful ship which they presumably stole at some point. Is there backstory there? Presumably? Do I want to know? Nope. Good call Renegades. Pretty sweet space battle ensues, Icarus escapes and steals the cargo, Captain Alvarez curses "Bucket of bolts!" like he just finished watching an episode of Middle-Man, and we learn that "Lexxa" would never be as stupid as the guy who's talking like the Cookie Monster and who actually does the "Mwaaaa-hah-hah-hah-haaaah" laugh. Good, cheesy fun all round.
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Lexxa's fighting in prison! More importantly, Adrienne Wilkinson is being smoking hot and fighting in prison! Hi, Orion guard Garrett Wang, you are the more convincing of the two Orion guards, good job! Oh and hey, that is Mignogna behind the Cardassian makeup, entertaining as always.
Tuvok shows up and uses someone who is clearly Lexxa's mom as leverage to get her to go with him. Dick move, Tuves, but desperate times and all that. Lexxa makes two separate references to prison rape within the space of like a minute, ughhh -- and seriously, did people like that "rape gangs" crap from Yar's backstory so much that we need to relive it? -- but I actually like the emotional work from Wilkinson here. This makes me root for Lexxa enough to wish that she'd appeared earlier in the movie of which she appears to be the protagonist.
Tuvok shows up and uses someone who is clearly Lexxa's mom as leverage to get her to go with him. Dick move, Tuves, but desperate times and all that. Lexxa makes two separate references to prison rape within the space of like a minute, ughhh -- and seriously, did people like that "rape gangs" crap from Yar's backstory so much that we need to relive it? -- but I actually like the emotional work from Wilkinson here. This makes me root for Lexxa enough to wish that she'd appeared earlier in the movie of which she appears to be the protagonist.
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Stopping there for now.
Actually re-watching gives me a better appreciation of the movie so far and what I do and don't like about it. There's a lot of cheesiness and uneven work, but the core of the material so far is entertaining; even the bad is the kind of bad that a B-movie enthusiast can appreciate, which is to say that this is pretty clearly the sort of thing I could watch with my bro and a bucket of popcorn and take the mickey out of and still have fun. (Which might seem like faint praise, but it reflects a sincerity at the core of the endeavour that can't be faked -- as many a movie that's tried to be B-movie bad/good in this way has found out.)
I enjoyed watching Renegades and plan to re-watch it.
When Dr. Lucien called Fixer over such a long distance I just knew that he was a hologram, and indeed he was.
When Icheb told his story about section 31, I thought: Wait a minute he’s at Starfleet Academy, but that’s probably because I read the Voyager relaunch books.
I'm looking forward to the next mission(s) of the Renegade crew if and when they continue.
When Dr. Lucien called Fixer over such a long distance I just knew that he was a hologram, and indeed he was.
When Icheb told his story about section 31, I thought: Wait a minute he’s at Starfleet Academy, but that’s probably because I read the Voyager relaunch books.
I'm looking forward to the next mission(s) of the Renegade crew if and when they continue.
It's not perfect, and I'll admit some of the acting and writing were wonky at times, but overall I enjoyed it.
Honestly, like I said before, I tend to be forgiving when it comes to fan films, so approaching it that way it was pretty good. If this was actually a TV pilot, and not a fan film with fewer resources, I don't think I would go for it.
Honestly, like I said before, I tend to be forgiving when it comes to fan films, so approaching it that way it was pretty good. If this was actually a TV pilot, and not a fan film with fewer resources, I don't think I would go for it.
So regarding the opening scene....
Artistically, this was great, for sake of story telling this was horrible. While the poem was nice, and I think encapslates alot of Lexxa's character, and motivations, she is introduced, through this scene, far earlier than she should have been. This scene makes us ask, who is this woman, why is she here... and then she is dropped until we meet her later in the story.
This is an example of what makes this film clunky. the writing and editing make for very clunky story telling... It seems, that the people who don't like this film, are saying this film is OGAM bad.. they are saying this film is Battlefield Earth bad...
Artistically, this was great, for sake of story telling this was horrible. While the poem was nice, and I think encapslates alot of Lexxa's character, and motivations, she is introduced, through this scene, far earlier than she should have been. This scene makes us ask, who is this woman, why is she here... and then she is dropped until we meet her later in the story.
This is an example of what makes this film clunky. the writing and editing make for very clunky story telling... It seems, that the people who don't like this film, are saying this film is OGAM bad.. they are saying this film is Battlefield Earth bad...
I'm not going to write a full review of this because I don't care to rewatch it again. So I'll be concise with my review:
Backstory does not equal character.
That's it.
Carry on.
Backstory does not equal character.
That's it.
Carry on.
Sorry, what is long and convoluted? Not following.
I wonder if those of us who liked it have more of an appreciation for B movies overall. I generally love a high cheese factor. Renegades is the first fan production I've ever watched so I didn't really know what to expect, but the overall story intrigued me. I'm usually pretty damn picky about stories too since I myself work as a freelance writer at times.
BigJake, so help me God if I have to hear about "rape gangs" in Star Trek one more time... no but really, I wish they would do away with that angle. I don't know - rape is such a serious issue but every time it's brought up like that, it sounds so hokey! The phrase "rape gangs" does not stir up the kind of emotion it's supposed to in me.
BigJake, so help me God if I have to hear about "rape gangs" in Star Trek one more time... no but really, I wish they would do away with that angle. I don't know - rape is such a serious issue but every time it's brought up like that, it sounds so hokey! The phrase "rape gangs" does not stir up the kind of emotion it's supposed to in me.
Yeah, the "rape" stuff needs to disappear. It's not edgy or dramatic to bring it up, it's just disgusting.
Surely the equally clunky "bare knuckle boxing in prison" also needs to go?
It's always mentioned so flippantly too, like "oh yeah and I was raised dealing with rape gangs," then on to the next subject. I think if any Star Trek series wants to delve into the issue of rape, they need to put some more effort into it. Casually mentioning that it occurred then moving on is so tacky.
I'm also really confused about the idea of "rape gangs" to begin with. So it's just a bunch of guys running around raping people all the time? WTF? WHY? And why the hell did we have that scene where Tasha Yar is telling a cat to run away from the "rape gangs?" Do they generally rape cats? Do they torture small animals? I have no idea because we are hardly given any back story on the existence of these gangs! People in the Trek universe just accept that they exist, and that's the end of that. I don't know how Trek could take something as serious as rape and make it sound so ridiculous. I mean, I unfortunately have personal experience in this area but the way they bring it up would be like me having this conversation:
Other Person: Man, this hike is going to be a grueling experience.
Me: Yeah I just hope it's not as bad as that time I was raped. Anyway, do you have the supplies packed?
Other Person: Umm...
Maybe that's a bit dramatic of a comparison but that's honestly how absurd it sounds to me. I don't mind them discussing this issue, but there has got to be a better way to do it!
And by all means, if your going to use it once.. okay.. but rape gangs can't be your only symbol for a society without law and order can it?
I don't have a problem with mentioning rape gangs per se. I don't even have a problem with the idea that they're so common in places that people would just sort-of mention them. It's chilling and telling in and of itself about how bad conditions are in a place. It reminds me of how some people who have been in war can casually talk about really horrific conditions and events.
Although its odd to me how this sort of show is held up as being in 'the spirit' of TOS - I don't remember Kirk and Spock having many conversations about rape gangs or snapping necks while uttering a witty pun?
Unless you count Spock casually making a quip to Rand about her attempted rape ordeal...
"The... impostor had some... interesting qualities, wouldn't you say, Yeoman?"
Don't know who those people are. They aren't me. I'm well aware of Renegade's shortcomings.
I just don't have an objection to portraying characters from conditions so dehumanizing that it affects how they perceive and portray things.
We've seen more than enough with Prelude and the teaser scene to get a good idea of just about everything technical about that productions capabilities. The scripting and dialogue are tight. The FX shots are first rate. The acting is high quality. The music, sound design, and editing are all excellent.
Abut the only thing that comes close in Renegades is the FX work, and it has some problematic moments (like the dilithium mine).
"Blood and Fire" 's biggest problem is that when Gerrald finally got turned loose to write the script "his way" w/o a strong producer over him to keep things balanced he decided to "wave the bloody shirt" regarding the gay characters. It was WAY over-emphaized and preachy.
And the death scene for Peter's lover was just over the top Harlequin Romance-level sappy. Utterly unprofessional behavior for Starfleet officers.
What ever you thought of Prelude's writing and directing it's not going to be at all the same considering their co-writer director left the production. All we have from the current director and writers is the Vulcan walk and talk. That should be the baseline expectation.
The more I think about it, cut 20 minutes, I'd have to re-watch to figure out which 20 but just being a tighter edit would have helped for me.
I was thinking about doing the same thing, just cutting most of the CGI effects in half would speed things up. I've already started compiling a list of edits, but unsure if it is even worth it.
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