Well there is nothing wrong with being Patrotic but Patrotism is different from Natonalism. Maybe over simplistic but Nationlism is believing your country/people is/are greater than every/everyone else Patrotism is in a way just supporting your country in a more good natured way. You could say one is more antognstic whilst the other is more passive.
United Earth? New Horizons & Nationalism
- Thread starter Horizons96
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Well there is nothing wrong with being Patrotic but Patrotism is different from Natonalism. Maybe over simplistic but Nationlism is believing your country/people is/are greater than every/everyone else Patrotism is in a way just supporting your country in a more good natured way. You could say one is more antognstic whilst the other is more passive.
Kirk in "A Piece of the Action" seemed to be a big fan of a unified planetary government.
The thing with Lal is that even if she was a human that displayed abilities that could be considered the next step in evolution or had the ability to solve a specific problem for the species, Starfleet would want to take her back to Starfleet Medical to examine her so hey can figure out what it is that makes her different and implement those things in an effort to save lives.
And they would not be the only government in history that would do that regardless of the persons rights. Not the only fictional program that centers on that idea. Mutants or people with special gifts are hunted by governments to exploit their abilities or to find out how to replicated their abilities, regardless of if they are citizens with rights protected by law.
And they would not be the only government in history that would do that regardless of the persons rights. Not the only fictional program that centers on that idea. Mutants or people with special gifts are hunted by governments to exploit their abilities or to find out how to replicated their abilities, regardless of if they are citizens with rights protected by law.
I had an argument in another forum. The root of the misunderstanding, I suspect, is that some opposed to nationalism can't distinguish between nationalism and patriotism. So they distain expressions of patriotism.
Maybe because nationalists and patriots use the same symbols, such as the flag?
I tried to explain the distinction, but it was like talking to brick wall.
Or that as a young man he had spent a lot of time with his nose in the history books...
Shucks... who would have thought that the founding documents of a major world superpower would have had any relevance a few hundred years later?
But of course that must mean that the United States still exists in the 23rd century because a unified earth government would be terrible...
But of course that must mean that the United States still exists in the 23rd century because a unified earth government would be terrible...
The Magna Carta is presently regarded as a historically significant document that was majorly influential in the writing of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but we don't freaking live by it.
Again - Kirk was big fan of a united planetary government in "A Piece of the Action" - to the point he was willing to use every tool in his power to make that government a reality.
Though for the record said planetary government was basically a crime syndicate.
True - even though Kirk intimated that the Federation would be around to supervise them, and from any indication the primary source of crime was "hits" on other gangs. The prostitute seemed to indicate that citizens had a right to express outrage with the government without being summarily executed.
The crime gangs, while in charge, were still operating under the notions of the umbrella that crime in 1920s Chicago would have been operating under....the United States federal systems. It is a quirk when one uses a book based on something going on in the United States in the 1920s as the basis for your civilization. They did note is was not the only book left by Horizon. There were technical books as well. There could easily have been books with US law in them, but for whatever reason the native liked the crime gags book the most, and went with it.
Some other takes on that world are that the next time a Federation starship arrived, they were imitating Starfleet. Having figured out McCoy's communicator. People dressed in Starfleet uniforms. A functioning starbase and short range subspace communications channels on older Starfleet codes.
Some other takes on that world are that the next time a Federation starship arrived, they were imitating Starfleet. Having figured out McCoy's communicator. People dressed in Starfleet uniforms. A functioning starbase and short range subspace communications channels on older Starfleet codes.
Good point.
To clarify, I wasn't saying one shouldn't be proud of their heritage or country of origin. Soccer games, sure, be as loud and proud as you want. And when it comes to space exploration, there's nothing wrong in taking pride in your nation's endeavors, but at the same time, we need to recognize the contributions of all involved, and the fact that humans being able to create a probe that has reached Pluto is as much a human achievement as other great works. When I think the Great Pyramids, the Great Wall, or great works of art, or inventions, I appreciate the fact that it was created by humans, not what nation they came from.
And Picard was pretty arrogant about being French in TNG season 1. For all their talk of humanity evolving, seems out of character to me.
Yep. I believe one of the novels mentions an Iotian serving in Starfleet. Nice to see what a unified planetary government can accomplish.
United how? What Kirk basically formed was a dictatorship, backed up by the two biggest bosses armed thugs. The people of that planet had no say in the leadership chosen (Kirk did that). There was no representation. No limits on leadership's power or reach. No guaranteed freedoms. The people would be "united" behind the "planetary government" how?
Sounds more like the government was going to be a isolated island on the surface of the planet, completely disconnected from the populace and their institutions.
I must have missed that episode. Oxmyx was the Boss of the largest territory - not on one continent but as he says "I got the biggest in the world". Krako had the second largest with Teppo and the other bosses controlling territories that were too small to matter. The largest territory in the WORLD would now be linked with the second largest and the biggest enemy to progress "I hit Krako - Krako hits Teppo - Teppo hits me" - random violence that did nothing to change the order of power would come to an end. So a unified planetary government, motivated by Federation tech, and free of petty violence would be able to finally progress. That's a positive and the assertion that the Iotian government founded by Kirk would exist in isolation is completely unfounded.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Starfleet Medical might well request this. But as a Federation citizen and legal minor, they would be required to obtain her guardian's or guardians' consent. Otherwise, what you are describing is abduction and medical experimentation on a child without parental consent -- fundamental violations of that child's and those parents' rights.
I mean, this is Star Trek. Even when the UFP is not perfect, the show is predicated on the idea that there are certain fundamental areas where the civilization we are watching has simply progressed beyond where we are today. Governments today may be okay with kidnapping and experimenting on a child; but the premise behind Star Trek is that they don't do things like that anymore.
Or the United States could exist as a constituent polity of United Earth.
I mean, clearly there is a level of suspension of disbelief in an episode like this. But I think it's clear that there is no government like the U.S.'s in "A Piece of the Action," only rival syndicates which style themselves after Chicago Mafia syndicates. Is this plausible? Squint at it and then it will be.
Yes.
Well, we don't need it. We like it. Other folks are certainly free to celebrate it in whatever way they like.
The impression I received is that both Bela Okmyx and Jojo Krako were located in different parts of the same city. Oxmyx might have had the largest territory in the largest city (equivalent to New York?), but more likely it was a territory like that of one of New York's five families in the '50s and '60's, and not a sizable percentage of the planet's surface.
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