This sounds right to me. While I gave up on DS9 and VOY, and never actually watched ENT, I still watched my Star Trek VHS and movies and still haven't stopped. I didn't get tired of Star Trek, I got tired of crap with the name plastered on it.
Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens
- Thread starter cooleddie74
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This sounds right to me. While I gave up on DS9 and VOY, and never actually watched ENT, I still watched my Star Trek VHS and movies and still haven't stopped. I didn't get tired of Star Trek, I got tired of crap with the name plastered on it.
I might have chosen:
Episode I - Darth Maul
Episode II - Count Dooku (if for no other good reason than to pay tribute to the late, great Sir Christopher Lee)
Episode III - Emperor Palpatine
Episode IV - Darth Vader
Episode V - Yoda (Frank Oz puppet)
Episode VI - Jedi Luke
I consider myself a pretty conservative dude, but even I would have to take issue with your friend's assessment of The Empire.
But then again, what faction/government/regime ever truly considers themselves "the bad guys"? As far as any regime is concerned about themselves (no matter how liberal, conservative, freedom loving, totalitarian, oppressive, or whatever), they are the good guys.
We are all the heroes in our own story-am I right?
Sure, but I'd still go with Jango Fett. Or a clone trooper. For obvious reasons.
Berman and Braga were not the issue. The studios were. B&B have gone on record saying that a lot of things we saw on Enterprise were not their ideas. Things like phase-pistols and the transporter being there from the beginning, was because the studios wanted to make sure there was no mistaking this as Star Trek.
Hell, their original plan was to spend most of season 1 on Earth, getting this ship ready to head out. But the studio-execs were scared it would be to un-Star Trek. So they said, make sure you have all those things people know, so they won't feel alienated.
Same thing goes for a lot of franchises. Like Dr Who. People keep blaming Moffat for everything, but some stuff is just forced into him. "Make sure there are Daleks in this season, or no money to make it." People know Daleks, so the studios want to make sure Moffat puts them in there.
But since Berman and Braga, and people like Moffat, are the faces we know, angry fanboys start blaming them. It's the people with money who ultimatly make the real decisions boys and girls, not the writers.
Call me when they finally release the original trilogy in its untampered form on BluRay (once they sort out the distribution and profits with Fox that is), i am not interested in George's "enhancements" of the original trilogy at all.
If they ever do prepare for the most successful home release of all time.
The argument I got out of him and the friends that have known him a lot longer than I have say that it is because he prefers the rule of government and order. He has no sympathy for freedom fighters as he considers them an element of chaos, pirates, and terrorists. I don't remember for sure but he I think he considers the Jedi to be something like a vigilate justice system that uses mind control to get what the corrupt Republic wants. I could be mixing that last one up with someone else though.
This is the same guy that calls the orcs in Lord of the Rings the "good guys". Again order, single large, technologically superior state, verses chaotic individual states.
I'm guessing Imperial Rome over the Roman Republic is the ideal here.
So your friend is Barney Stinson?
Indeed.
Your guess may well be correct. It sounds to me like he doesn't believe in a government "of the people, by the people, for the people."
Not judging. Just saying.
More or less government as it actually works, as oppose to how we'd like it to work.
The old view is that the Rebellion against the Empire was sort of like the VC against the United States (especially the Ewoks), with the Emperor being Nixon. I think he took offense to that and sided with the Empire as the Americans verses the enemy. Though that might be me reading into things.
He does prefer technological superiority and order, and believes that a technological advantage in the military should win. That Lucas failed, as by the end of the second film he was rooting for the Empire.
The old view is that the Rebellion against the Empire was sort of like the VC against the United States (especially the Ewoks), with the Emperor being Nixon. I think he took offense to that and sided with the Empire as the Americans verses the enemy. Though that might be me reading into things.
He does prefer technological superiority and order, and believes that a technological advantage in the military should win. That Lucas failed, as by the end of the second film he was rooting for the Empire.
That analogy is incorrect. Lucas seemed to have had something more in the vein of Nazi Germany in mind when designing the Empire. His story idea may also have been sparked closer to home.
It is worth keeping in mind that the United States would not exist without a group of rebel freedom fighters rising up against an oppressive government.
Interestingly, in 1976 a poll was conducted asking American citizens if a government formed by a violent uprising had a legitimate right to exist and the vast majority said no.
Empire was a totalitarian, militaristic, non-democratic hegemony that replaced a non-functioning, broken travesty of a republic, ran by corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, greedy corporations and banking clans, and policed by a sect of religious fanatics.
I bet Palpatine had billions of avid supporters.
I bet Palpatine had billions of avid supporters.
That might be true for some of Enterprise, although I doubt the studio made them put in the decontamination chamber, the vulcan neuropressure, or put a gun to their heads to force them to make episodes like "A Night in Sickbay". Voyager, from what I remember, didn't have as much studio interference, and (even though I'm kinder to it than some people), it was pretty bad. They can't blame the idiotic reset buttons, bad stories and poorly used characters from Voyager on the network.
Now, berman and Braga did a few good things before Voyager, but they're no Moffat. You can't even really compare them to Moffat. When B&B were given the reigns, things went to hell, and it was because they generally sucked at being in charge, not because of studio or network interference. I'm not saying there was none, and Enterprise obviously got screwed with, but it wasn't the reason Voyager was mediocre, and based on Manny Coto's actually good season of Enterprise, it wasn't the reason Enterprise failed either. B&B just weren't good for the series, at least in a position of authority/creative control. That's my opinion, at least
That might be true for some of Enterprise, although I doubt the studio made them put in the decontamination chamber, the vulcan neuropressure, or put a gun to their heads to force them to make episodes like "A Night in Sickbay". Voyager, from what I remember, didn't have as much studio interference, and (even though I'm kinder to it than some people), it was pretty bad. They can't blame the idiotic reset buttons, bad stories and poorly used characters from Voyager on the network.
Now, berman and Braga did a few good things before Voyager, but they're no Moffat. You can't even really compare them to Moffat. When B&B were given the reigns, things went to hell, and it was because they generally sucked at being in charge, not because of studio or network interference. I'm not saying there was none, and Enterprise obviously got screwed with, but it wasn't the reason Voyager was mediocre, and based on Manny Coto's actually good season of Enterprise, it wasn't the reason Enterprise failed either. B&B just weren't good for the series, at least in a position of authority/creative control. That's my opinion, at least
You can debate what might or might not have happened. But ratings continued to decline for Deep Space Nine which was ran by Ira Steven Behr and Enterprise during Manny Coto's run.
The studio did interfere. Berman wanted to take a break between series, the studio didn't. Berman/Braga wanted to make "Year of Hell" a season long arc, the studio didn't.
While Berman should take blame as captain of the ship, he had a ton of help in killing the franchise from those above and below him.
I might be wrong, and will have to follow up, but I believe the contract with the BBC and the creator of the Dalek's estate state that they must make at least one appearance in each season in order to keep using them. As I said, I could be incorrect but I remember that being an aspect of Who's history.
I have other thoughts but those will have to wait. Suffice to say that I think VOY and ENT's failure was a combination of many factors, including the audience, Berman's leadership, and studio wants.
Also, the effort to replicate TNG's success without all the elements that made TNG that success.
Same could be argued about the PT as well.
I don't blame them. Can you imagine living in something like that?
