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Star Trek: Axanar

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At 1:19 - "Axanar is the first independent Star Trek film"

That's false. Ironically, Alec was at the STR shoot, and still says this :wtf:. The first independent Star Trek: Of Gods and Men in 2007, filmed using mostly all professional actors and some professionals on the crew. STR had professionals (mixed with some volunteers) and was shot in a studio (Laurel Canyon Stages) where many industry productions have been filmed.

Only Alec and Rob can speak to or for what appears in that pitch video when it come to the content, I'm afraid, since that was their work and I only saw it myself for the first time once it was available to public.
 
Don't want to get "Clintonian" about semantics, but I'm genuinely curious what the definition of "independent" is, in this context, to both sides of the argument.

It's such a generic and ambiguous word, it could mean anything, and anyone could refute it equally.
 
I hope the production is able to invest in a more stable tripod before principal photography begins. Most notably, the wobble at the 3:42 mark ruins the upwards tilt that should punctuates the scene. It would definitely be worth going to an alternate take or reshooting to correct that.

The digital backdrop wasn't really convincing to me. Through much of the scene, the actors looked like they were walking in place, not actually moving forward in three dimensional space.

Given the stated fundraising goals, I hope the rest of the movie is able to spend more time showing rather than telling. This is just one scene, of course, but it amounts to one character telling another what is happening. Why not show it instead?

Ummm... tripod? No offense to anyone that is using that kind of rig, but it's not like we went to Best Buy for our equipment. =P

Everything used to film Axanar is professional Hollywood filmmaking in carnate -- tracks, dollies, etc. We may even be going Steadycam in some shots of the feature, too. Red cameras, real teamsters on the crew (they're a surly bunch, let me tell ya!) from the local Local, and the list goes on. If it appears in an Axanar production, barring some extraordinary circumstance that I couldn't even think of at the moment, then it has been done for a specific reason.

Watch the following proper pitch video that we added to the Indiegogo fundraiser early Sunday and you'll get glimpses on the setup for this one day shoot -- we sure weren't stuck using something like our buddy Cooter's camcorder after a quick pit stop at Fry's for extra batteries. Heck, I'm not even on the technical side of filmmaking and have a Red One rig in the closet just in case it might ever come in handy -- second hand, of course. =P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6TXDDoADIY

It's wonderful that you guys have access to such expensive equipment that the professionals use. It's also exciting to consider the possibilities and potential of this film and how amazing it will be thanks to all involved. However, it's money down the drain if the people operating these machines don't know how to do use them properly.

Harvey's point though is valid - the bump, particularly at the end, is extremely noticeable and to me and screamed "FAN FILM" all over what was an otherwise beautifully shot scene.

Mr. Peters and Mr. Burnett are trumpeting to the hills that this is to be an "indie" film, made by "professionals" and Mr. Burnett has, of late, reminded us on several occasions of his extensive, 26-year career of experience. This scene doesn't look professional with this bump. It looks amateurish.

Also, while I realize you guys have a wealth of resources at your disposal, I'm also just as confident that someone who knows what they're doing with a $15 tripod from Best Buy could get that shot done properly without spending thousands of dollars renting a pair of professional sticks.

Regarding the "bump" - i never would have thought that so many people noticed. I intentionally left that one in to give the whole shot a more realistic feel. If you smooth everything out, you get a very artificial look.

Respectfully, Tobias, that's bunk.

You are unparalleled when it comes to visual effects work, but this was clearly an amateur mistake. The scene wasn't supposed to be some kind of cinema vérité, it wasn't shot hand-held, and it certainly didn't come off as "realistic." It just looks like someone didn't tilt up properly. If you all want this to be your professional calling card, more power to you.

Me? I'd fix it first.

I just read back my original reply -- the one with the "Cooter's camcorder" comment -- and hope that it wasn't perceived as boasty, because that wasn't the intent. Reading it back now it could certainly be taken that way with little effort though.

In the end re: the shake at you mentioned, only Rob, the director, could definitively lay the issue to bed, but I'm not sure if he's a member of this forum, but would wager that he is in some capacity given his fandom. It's perhaps a bit harsh to call, or even imply, that Tobias or I are blowing smoke out of our butts on this topic. You asked a question. We gave you honest replies. If your opinion won't digest them as fact then that's one of the things that you'll just have to live with as a mystery then, I guess.

When I came to this group I stated that folks would get the truth and it was given. Now, if Rob joins this thread and says something like "Terry's wrong and I screwed up," or something like that, then I'll promptly eat my hat publicly. But, I cannot believe for a second that Rob didn't want that to be there and that Tobias would let something like that slide if it wasn't meant to be, given that they both worked on that scene for three weeks straight while they worked out their processes of collaboration as a new director-VFX supervisor team. =)
 
That whole sequence was done within 3 weeks from start to finish - including building all the vulcan scenery, ships, camera tracking, rendering, compositing. Bascially 3 weeks with no social life and very few sleep for me :)

I´m glad that most of you like the outcome. Regarding the "bump" - i never would have thought that so many people noticed. I intentionally left that one in to give the whole shot a more realistic feel. If you smooth everything out, you get a very artificial look.

Three weeks for all of that? That is an impressive amount of work in that time, Tobias.
Without highjacking the thread, maybe by PM, I am interested in knowing how you decided to color and texture Vulcan As well as the sky color.
 


At 1:19 - "Axanar is the first independent Star Trek film"

That's false. Ironically, Alec was at the STR shoot, and still says this :wtf:. The first independent Star Trek: Of Gods and Men in 2007, filmed using mostly all professional actors and some professionals on the crew. STR had professionals (mixed with some volunteers) and was shot in a studio (Laurel Canyon Stages) where many industry productions have been filmed.

Only Alec and Rob can speak to or for what appears in that pitch video when it come to the content, I'm afraid, since that was their work and I only saw it myself for the first time once it was available to public.

Thanks Terry, I have addressed this with Alec. It is important that all our Star Trek productions play well together. If I see things like that i'm going to call them out. As I would expect you guys to if the situation was reversed.

BTW, it was also the first line of the Indiegogo page as well, it has since been changed to: "Axanar is the first fully-professional, independent Star Trek film" That is also a shaky line as well for a few reasons I will not get into here.
 
Don't want to get "Clintonian" about semantics, but I'm genuinely curious what the definition of "independent" is, in this context, to both sides of the argument.

It's such a generic and ambiguous word, it could mean anything, and anyone could refute it equally.

In the case of Star Trek both the terms 'Fan Film' and 'Independent' are all but the same. Independent sounds more professional and is better for marketing. In either case when you are producing something without the involvement of the trademark holding studio, it is either independent or a fan Film (because your making a film for the fans). Independent can also describe other lower budget original concept film with out the backing of a major studio.
 
Which is effectively saying no dissenting viewpoints whatsoever allowed or you will be labeled a hater.

Nice to know.

Why does there need to be dissenting viewpoints about the Abrams films in a thread that should have nothing to do with the Abrams films?

When evaluating a product, comparisons with other supposedly similar products are inevitable.
True.

Yet all someone did was state a preference for Axanar over Abrams' work and an insinuation was made that someone with such a viewpoint lacked perspective. The point was countered and subsequently the discussion took an off-ramp.
 
Why does there need to be dissenting viewpoints about the Abrams films in a thread that should have nothing to do with the Abrams films?

When evaluating a product, comparisons with other supposedly similar products are inevitable.
True.

Yet all someone did was state a preference for Axanar over Abrams' work and an insinuation was made that someone with such a viewpoint lacked perspective. The point was countered and subsequently the discussion took an off-ramp.


Good lord.

Someone compared Axanar to everything Abrams has done in his career. It may not have been intended to sound that way, but that's how it was read. One 20 minute fan film against not only those loathesome (LOATHESOME!!) Trek movies, but also Alias, Lost, Fringe, Super 8, Alcatraz, Undercovers, Felicity, Regarding Henry, Mission: Imossible III, Armageddon, Person of Interest, Believe, Revolution, Cloverfield, What About Brian, The Pallbearer, and Forever Young (among others) and oh yes, the new Star Wars.

Suggesting that a 20 minute fan film is better than the combined work of the career of one of the most prolific auteurs working in television and film today (whether you like his work or not) demonstrates a profound and obvious lack of perspective.
 
Overall, nice beginning.

However, the political jargon didn't make sense: the council has already cast their vote, but the council's decision will soon be final?!? All that's left is ratification, meaning that the council must ratify its own vote, given that the council still has something left to do??? No. The universal translator must be broken.

Anyway, I really like Ambassador Soval. He was one of my favorite ENT characters.

The Council (Senate) votes. The Administrator (President) signs in to law. Since there's no canon to say either way, the American system works well, since it's familiar.

:lol:

Yeah, but the point is that the first thing stated was that the council had just cast their vote. Then it's about getting the council to change their mind before the process of secession concludes by ratification.

I thought it was obvious: The Council passes resolutions at the highest level and that resolution has to be ratified by the legislatures/ruling councils/monarchs/whatever of various nation states in order to become law. Sort of like the U.N., basically. The reason ratification is "just a formality" is because Vulcan has been ruled under a unified central government for years and there has never IN PRACTICE been a situation where one of its nation states decided to oppose a decision of the council (besides which, the resolution wouldn't be passed without all of their input anyway).

It basically IS too late to really change anyone's mind because the deal has been done and all that's left is for the various nations to sign the resolution into law, a resolution that they have technically already approved. But Vulcans embrace technicality, and Soval figures he still has time to turn things around.
 
The whole Abrams in this thread started when I had the audacity to write that I actually believe Axanar was better that anything trek I saw from Abrams.

Of course I now realize that was a horrendous thing to have said, how dare I have my own opinion.

The issue was dropped and forgotten about for over 24 hours til a pro abrams fan no doubt devastated at any criticism all be it in an off the cuff remark reignited it.

Then others who also had the sheer audacity to agree with me and actually dare to do it in the thread got involved and it was made into something serious.

Hopefully now we can all go back to discussing axanar and axanar alone, the movie I most want to see.
 
It basically IS too late to really change anyone's mind because the deal has been done

Ah, at last someone sees the problem, too.

The whole problem with this scene here could be easily fixed by simply having the council vote not have been cast yet, and instead simply have their intentions known.
 
Don't want to get "Clintonian" about semantics, but I'm genuinely curious what the definition of "independent" is, in this context, to both sides of the argument.

It's such a generic and ambiguous word, it could mean anything, and anyone could refute it equally.

By definition all fan films are indie, because they're made outside of the industrial studio system. That said, some (I haven't decided if I'm one of them yet) then choose to differentiate based on perceived quality or resources available for production on what might be considered "fan film" or "independent film."

In the end it really doesn't matter to me either way, because it's the same amount of work to make it no matter what label is taped on. =)
 
It basically IS too late to really change anyone's mind because the deal has been done

Ah, at last someone sees the problem, too.

The whole problem with this scene here could be easily fixed by simply having the council vote not have been cast yet, and instead simply have their intentions known.

You're assuming that's a problem, though. I mean, it obviously is for SOVAL, which is why he's so stressed out about this. But the subtext of the scene is "They already voted, so we're fucked."

So how is Soval going to unfuck Vulcan and what drastic and unprecedented craziness is going to ensue that gives him the opportunity to do so? We'll just have to wait and see.:vulcan:
 
Don't want to get "Clintonian" about semantics, but I'm genuinely curious what the definition of "independent" is, in this context, to both sides of the argument.

It's such a generic and ambiguous word, it could mean anything, and anyone could refute it equally.

By definition all fan films are indie, because they're made outside of the industrial studio system. That said, some (I haven't decided if I'm one of them yet) then choose to differentiate based on perceived quality or resources available for production on what might be considered "fan film" or "independent film."

In the end it really doesn't matter to me either way, because it's the same amount of work to make it no matter what label is taped on. =)
AFAIK, in common usage "Independent films" are produced with the intention of marketing/selling them to consumers. If not for profit, at least to compensate the production costs and the time/effort of the actors and crew. Fan films, by contrast, are vanity projects and aren't intended to make anything back.

If I understand the situation, technically you couldn't actually SELL copies of Axanar without getting sued into oblivion by an unholy alliance of CBS, Paramount, Bad Robot, Steve Inhat's ghost and Harlan Ellison's mother in law. So to the extent those labels are not totally arbitrary anyway (and they mostly are) it would still be considered a "fan film" of the "Nya nya, we did it just for fun so you can't sue me!" variety.
 
I would have thought that any reference to Abrams in terms of this thread would be to his Trek work would be obvious context, but I guess it really is necessary to parse everything out these days.

Moving on:

[I thought some nice character touches came out, although the format only allows for minimal brush-strokes: Kharn as something of a philosopher-warrior and the sort who recognizes and respects his enemy (though they remain the enemy); Garth as surprisingly self-effacing, soft-spoken and modest; Travis as a gruff personality with a wry sense of gallows humour. One of the best things about it, actually.

I like Sonya Alexander's little smirk when she relates her Klingon nickname. She's proud of earning it.



Yeah, but the point is that the first thing stated was that the council had just cast their vote. Then it's about getting the council to change their mind before the process of secession concludes by ratification. Sorry, but it literally makes no sense. Either it's passed out of the council's hands or it hasn't. And if it hasn't, then why make the point that they've already cast their vote?

The best way to look at it would be like a US Constitutional amendment. Passed by the central government, it now has to be ratified by the states/people. An act which apparently Soval sees as a "done deal" at that point in time.



The notion that mainstream entertainment is less intelligent, imaginative and sophisticated than Star Trek is preposterous fannish nonsense.

Take it up with GR who, despite all his faults, worked hard to establish Trek as appealing to a bar set higher than the LCD entertainments of the day, a policy that was continued through all the modern Treks up to the 09 film.


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Repeating his self-promoting nonsense endlessly doesn't make it so, but it does often seem to be the only arrow in the quiver of fans inclined to talk mainly to one another rather than paying attention to what actually is on the screen.

Would you like to throw in a line about how he's "spinning in his grave?" That doesn't make any sense either, but it seems to be a popular way of venting. ;)

Sorry, Dennis, but the evidence of history once again is not with you. Countless interviews and documents and audio commentaries on Trek videos all talk about GR's desire to produce a show that was literate as well as "action-y". Solo, Justman, Coon, Fontana, even Gerrald have talked about this in their interviews, etc.

In a battle of all those worthies vs you, I go with the people who were there and helped GR do it.

One last point:

I am sick of a few people continuing to backhand complement Axanar by emphasizing "fan film", as though any production not coming out of Big Hollywood must forever be consigned to the "little kid's table". Axanar is proving otherwise.
 
It basically IS too late to really change anyone's mind because the deal has been done

Ah, at last someone sees the problem, too.

The whole problem with this scene here could be easily fixed by simply having the council vote not have been cast yet, and instead simply have their intentions known.

You're assuming that's a problem, though. I mean, it obviously is for SOVAL, which is why he's so stressed out about this. But the subtext of the scene is "They already voted, so we're fucked."

So how is Soval going to unfuck Vulcan and what drastic and unprecedented craziness is going to ensue that gives him the opportunity to do so? We'll just have to wait and see.:vulcan:

All I've been trying to say is that, unless ratification doesn't operate the way it does in the real world, and given that the vote has already been cast, getting the council to change their mind can't be enough to stop Vulcan's secession. Yet that's Soval's goal as laid out in the scene. To prevent Vulcan's secession, he must also stop the ratification process.

Again, if the story doesn't involve Soval pleading to multiple independent sovereigns not to ratify the council's vote because the council will vote again to change its mind, then the far simpler change is to simply have the final vote not yet taken in the council.

You know what, I'm just going to go with what Maurice said, because that's really simpler: Gee, it sure was heavy on the political technobabble.
 
I am sick of a few people continuing to backhand complement Axanar by emphasizing "fan film", as though any production not coming out of Big Hollywood must forever be consigned to the "little kid's table". Axanar is proving otherwise.

Axanar is fan art. Grand in scope and spectacular in execution, but still, simply, a work of art. Compare and contrast with the Star Trek franchise in general, which an entertainment commodity that happens to INCLUDE artwork from many different contributors as part of its overall presentation.

You can either be the Big Kid at the Kid's Table or the upstart young cousin at the grownup's table. Before you make your choice, consider that the kids' table is WAY more fun and none of us have copyright lawyers on speed dial.
 
All I've been trying to say is that, unless ratification doesn't operate the way it does in the real world, and given that the vote has already been cast, getting the council to change their mind can't be enough to stop Vulcan's secession. Yet that's Soval's goal as laid out in the scene. To prevent Vulcan's secession, he must also stop the ratification process.
Exactly right. And he knows this is just about impossible to do, just like he knows that if he DOESN'T find a way to do it, the Federation is going to fall apart.

It's a classic no-win scenario.

Again, if the story doesn't involve Soval pleading to multiple independent sovereigns not to ratify the council's vote because the council will vote again to change its mind, then the far simpler change is to simply have the final vote not yet taken in the council.
That or Vulcan actually DOES secede and Starfleet shows up to save them from a Klingon invasion anyway, an act of sacrifice and loyalty that leads to the Council repealing the resolution and returning to the Federation.

Or some other similar crisis that results in an extraordinary reversal of fortunes. Whatever happens, it's probably either during or immediately after the ratification process and certainly disruptive enough to throw the entire legislative process into complete chaos. In either case, the likely culprit is "OMG!!! Klingons!!!!"
 
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