‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

[Locutus of Bored]

I didn't assume his family died in the Metropolis stuff. Honestly, I kind of figured that he's a retired Batman, and that note was to taunt him about his guilt over his mom and dad dying. Kind of a "you let your family die as a kid, then Batman left and all these people were killed" thing. Bruce in the comics a lot of the time feels guilty about his parents dying, even though he couldn't do anything. The note could be using that as a taunt, along with the Metropolis stuff, to get Batman to suit back up to take Superman down.

He's desperately screaming for someone to get out of Wayne Financial on his cellphone, then he runs directly into the rapidly approaching debris field to go after them, then he's shown holding a little girl in the aftermath (who could be his or a stranger he thought was his daughter), and finally a newspaper about the building being destroyed has "You let your family die" written on it. That's a pretty strong narrative chain they're pushing on the audience if it's simply a reference to his parents or Robin dying, both of which are also referenced separately in the trailer and provide no reason for him to bitterly resent Superman.

It makes more sense than Batman having a wife and child, which would be extremely out of place for him. I just don't see them doing that.

Selina Kyle/Helena Wayne and Talia al Ghul/Damian Wayne would beg to differ.

 

[JoeZhang]

Except Jason Todd/Robin was clearly killed by Joker, hence the "Hahah, jokes on you!" graffiti on his armor, which Batman is maintaining in his vault.

Where do you get Jason Todd from???? How do you know it's not dick Grayson ?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Except Jason Todd/Robin was clearly killed by Joker, hence the "Hahah, jokes on you!" graffiti on his armor, which Batman is maintaining in his vault.

Where do you get Jason Todd from???? How do you know it's not dick Grayson ?

Just supposition since Todd was the one killed by Joker in the comics, and the Robin armor in the trailer has Joker graffiti scrawled on it taunting Batman.

 

[JoeZhang]

My iPad crashes when I try and spoiler text but there are reasons to think that is not the case...

 

[The Old Mixer]

Allow me.

Spoiler: Leaked image pertaining to this discussion

We've see a photo of Dick Grayson's gravestone. There's little reason for them to establish multiple dead Robins in the new Batman's backstory. Dick would have greater name recognition with general audiences, and having only one Robin in the past who was killed would make for a tighter narrative.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^ Ah, gotcha. Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[kirk55555]

It makes more sense than Batman having a wife and child, which would be extremely out of place for him. I just don't see them doing that.

Selina Kyle/Helena Wayne and Talia al Ghul/Damian Wayne would beg to differ.

Talia and Bruce were never married, and Damien was created from their DNA through science (and I think he even had mutated "brothers"). Helena Wayne was an Earth 2 creation that, even with the reboot, isn't that well known compared to the Helena Bertinelli Huntress, and was never the daughter of the main continuity Batman in any era. The main canon Batman never has a wife and kids, at most he has a psychotic ex who he never really "loved" and a science created offspring.

Batman having some kind of family in batman v Superman is still really out of place. They could easily make it that Batman has a dead wife/kids, its not like the people that make these movies really care about the characters anyway, but it would still be out of place for Batman in general.

 

[Captaindemotion]

My iPad crashes when I try and spoiler text...

That's interesting, so does mine. However, it works fine for my iPhone.

On topic, as someone who liked but didn't love MOS, this looks incredible. I do keep thinking, however, about how brilliant the trailers for that movie were and how, for me, anyway, it didn't really live up to them. I hope that history doesn't repeat itself here.

 

[The Old Mixer]

[Re Bruce's family] But it would only be a new backstory element...a more recent tragedy in Bruce's life for him to have a vendetta against Superman. In order for a character to suffer a tragic loss, they first need to have something that can be taken away from them. If they go that route, he wouldn't be a happy family man anymore.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

What I don't like about the BvS movie.. in addition to the fact that Snyder is more about glitz than anything else... is the whole "backtracking" thing. It happens in all big multipart live action universes.. but here, the entire heart of the story relies on it. Here's my point: despite the fact that "Man of Steel" was said to be the first film in the DCCU, the film itself has no other references to this. The executives of DC approached the whole enterprise with the "Let's see how Man of Steel does at the box office.. if it succeeds, yeah, sure, we'll say it's the first film of the DCCU, and if it doesn't, well, it was a stand alone film." As a result, we got a scene of Zod using his heat vision to destroy a building from within. In the first film. it was just a building.. even to the people MAKING it. Now, oh no, it was a Wayne Enterprise building.. and now Bruce Wayne had been running toward it all the emotional torment is there now... all written NOW and never planned... So much of this film is about backtracking want they want to make it seem like MOS was truly the start of their universe, when it was always just a timid test-bed of a film. Instead of spending an hour of Zod and Superman smashing the world to holy hell, they could have been laying down track for Bruce Wayne, or Wonder Woman, or all those other people, but they DIDN'T because they were timid about starting a universe. My theory, I think the biggest suits were thinking a few years ago that the comic book book movie bubble would burst much earlier than it actually will.

 

[The Old Mixer]

BTW, this might be old news to some, but I saw a quote from Henry Cavill in a magazine blurb about the film: "This is not a Superman sequel."

 

[JoeZhang]

Is that abandoned Wayne manor?

And when we see Superman bow to Luther -maybe doomsday is a red herring and it's a superman clone?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

It makes more sense than Batman having a wife and child, which would be extremely out of place for him. I just don't see them doing that.

Selina Kyle/Helena Wayne and Talia al Ghul/Damian Wayne would beg to differ.

Talia and Bruce were never married...

I believe I said wife or lover/mother of his child multiple times in my posts, not just wife.

Besides, it's not as if it's unusual in comic films and TV to cherry pick elements from different continuities to provide backstories for modern characters.

Batman having some kind of family in batman v Superman is still really out of place.

Well, he doesn't have one in BvS, because if he did they probably died offscreen during Man of Steel, hence this conversation. It's not like they're turning the movie into The Sound of Music and Captain von Batt is going to take his singing children on tour while the nuns sing "How do you solve a problem like Selina?"

They could easily make it that Batman has a dead wife/kids, its not like the people that make these movies really care about the characters anyway.

No, they just have a different interpretation of what they want to see from them than you do. Snyder's obviously got a great deal of knowledge and investment in the characters and world, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean he didn't care.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

What I don't like about the BvS movie.. in addition to the fact that Snyder is more about glitz than anything else... is the whole "backtracking" thing. It happens in all big multipart live action universes.. but here, the entire heart of the story relies on it. Here's my point: despite the fact that "Man of Steel" was said to be the first film in the DCCU, the film itself has no other references to this. The executives of DC approached the whole enterprise with the "Let's see how Man of Steel does at the box office.. if it succeeds, yeah, sure, we'll say it's the first film of the DCCU, and if it doesn't, well, it was a stand alone film." As a result, we got a scene of Zod using his heat vision to destroy a building from within. In the first film. it was just a building.. even to the people MAKING it. Now, oh no, it was a Wayne Enterprise building.. and now Bruce Wayne had been running toward it all the emotional torment is there now... all written NOW and never planned... So much of this film is about backtracking want they want to make it seem like MOS was truly the start of their universe, when it was always just a timid test-bed of a film. Instead of spending an hour of Zod and Superman smashing the world to holy hell, they could have been laying down track for Bruce Wayne, or Wonder Woman, or all those other people, but they DIDN'T because they were timid about starting a universe. My theory, I think the biggest suits were thinking a few years ago that the comic book book movie bubble would burst much earlier than it actually will.

Interesting take.

I was not particularly impressed with the SDCC trailer, since it is not presenting anything different that the Superman-is-the-false-God-of-the-people / Batman-gritty-human-taking-him-down plot is so very old, appearing in comics and WB's animated properties. Wonder Woman's appearance--the build of the actress was underwhelming.

No one knows what kind of tone this "Dawn of Justice" will end on, but if there's one thing the better DC stories sold was the idea that in the face serious events, the entire world cannot be grim and dark going forward. Someone has to be a visual and ideological light in the film, otherwise its the same bleak crap beaten to death in comics of the past 20+ years.

 

[JoeZhang]

I don't understand what is bleak about it? superman is still flying around saving people - which makes him even more noble in a world where people mistrust him rather than simplistically stand around cheering...

 

[Bad Bishop]

Wonder Woman's appearance--the build of the actress was underwhelming.

That's your immediate impression of WW, based on her less than 4 seconds of footage (wearing her costume) in the trailer? I'm glad that WW is not built like Mother Russia from Kick-start 2. But as they say, whatever floats your boat.

Wonder Woman first appeared in print in 1941. Never portrayed on the big screen in a significant way after nearly 75 years. Still the greatest superheroine of all (sorry, fans of Carol Danvers). Overall, seeing just a glimpse of her in the new trailer yesterday was, for me at least, a big deal.

 

[Warped9]

Even though I still have quibbles with Supes' costume and the overall muted palette of the film MoS was better than I half expected. Based on that and the recent trailer I'm feeling rather optimistic about BvS.

 

[The Lensman]

What I don't like about the BvS movie.. in addition to the fact that Snyder is more about glitz than anything else... is the whole "backtracking" thing. It happens in all big multipart live action universes.. but here, the entire heart of the story relies on it. Here's my point: despite the fact that "Man of Steel" was said to be the first film in the DCCU, the film itself has no other references to this. The executives of DC approached the whole enterprise with the "Let's see how Man of Steel does at the box office.. if it succeeds, yeah, sure, we'll say it's the first film of the DCCU, and if it doesn't, well, it was a stand alone film." As a result, we got a scene of Zod using his heat vision to destroy a building from within. In the first film. it was just a building.. even to the people MAKING it. Now, oh no, it was a Wayne Enterprise building.. and now Bruce Wayne had been running toward it all the emotional torment is there now... all written NOW and never planned... So much of this film is about backtracking want they want to make it seem like MOS was truly the start of their universe, when it was always just a timid test-bed of a film. Instead of spending an hour of Zod and Superman smashing the world to holy hell, they could have been laying down track for Bruce Wayne, or Wonder Woman, or all those other people, but they DIDN'T because they were timid about starting a universe. My theory, I think the biggest suits were thinking a few years ago that the comic book book movie bubble would burst much earlier than it actually will.

Uhhh....no. I remember them saying this would be the first film of a connected universe and it was seeded with a ton of easter eggs.....like the Wayne Tech satellite and the Luthor Corp truck. These weren't just cute little throwaways like naming a street after Siegal or Shuster. It was letting us know that this was a shared universe. Everyone knew this. They rightfully kept the focus on Superman instead of going the Marvel gimmick route where you go see a movie and it's clear half the goal of the movie is just to set up the next movie.

Just because they didn't do it in the way you thought it should be done doesn't mean it wasn't done. Everyone, even the regular joe on the street, knows we're in the age of the "shared universe" on screen, especially when it comes to the superheroes. We don't need to have our hand held with Amanda Waller coming out at the end and saying "Let's talk about the Justice League initiative". We already knew a JLA film was coming.

I like that DC has a more subtle approach and assumes that their audience has intelligence and is paying attention.





As for Bruce Wayne's "family", honestly until I read a few of the comments here, I took it as his metaphorical family. As in friends and employee's who were killed in the Wayne Tech building.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As for Bruce Wayne's "family", honestly until I read a few of the comments here, I took it as his metaphorical family. As in friends and employee's who were killed in the Wayne Tech building.

This is entirely possible, too, of course. Maybe Bruce gave a pep talk to the troops at Wayne Enterprises and said something like, "You are my family. I would do anything for you." And now, someone is mocking him for that, after WE is brought down in MoS.

Or maybe he said that the people of Gotham are his family.

Or maybe someone knows he thought of Robin as family, and they are mocking him for Robin's death.

Or maybe someone thinks or knows that Bruce blames himself for the death of his parents. Maybe he's publicly said words to the effect, "If only I'd been stronger, hadn't been so helpless, I could have done something."

It's wide open, really, but I'll admit none of that has the punch that Selena/Helena would have. That would really take it to a whole new level.

 

[davejames]

Yeah it seemed obvious to me that his anguish was over the loss of life in one of his own buildings, and the fact he was unable to prevent it.

If he had actually lost a wife or kid, it's hard to see him EVER being able to forgive or work alongside Superman after that-- which is something that'll obviously have to happen for future movies.