Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble film?

[Mudd]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Requiring Uhura does not preclude also requiring McCoy on the landing party.

It precludes making McCoy the third member of the starring cast. Sure he can beam down, just like Uhura often did. He can throw his characteristic one-liners at the Big Three, same as Scotty.

At least having Uhura chatting with Kirk and Spock on the bridge makes some sense. McCoy rarely had a good reason for hanging around up there as much as he did.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Your point about Saldana's bigger star is a good one. But even in ST 11 McCoy was instantly Kirk's friend and doctor. It is regrettable if they leave that behind, especially if it removes the balance between Kirk's logic (Spock) and emotionalism (McCoy). In it's place, will the new trinity work?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Kirk and Spock are the most interesting TOS characters, so it makes sense that any reboot would focus on them.
I do agree that the nuTrek McCoy is really an impersonation, but Deforest's style and mannerisms are so distinctive that any actor inheriting the role would have no choice but copy him almost completely.

 

[Ovation]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Kirk and Spock are the most interesting TOS characters, so it makes sense that any reboot would focus on them.
I do agree that the nuTrek McCoy is really an impersonation, but Deforest's style and mannerisms are so distinctive that any actor inheriting the role would have no choice but copy him almost completely.

Why? The same claims can be made about Nimoy and, especially, Shatner yet neither Pine nor Quinto go to the lengths Urban does (much to their credit).

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Kirk and Spock are the most interesting TOS characters, so it makes sense that any reboot would focus on them.
I do agree that the nuTrek McCoy is really an impersonation, but Deforest's style and mannerisms are so distinctive that any actor inheriting the role would have no choice but copy him almost completely.

Why? The same claims can be made about Nimoy and, especially, Shatner yet neither Pine nor Quinto go to the lengths Urban does (much to their credit).

I don't know. I have been rewatching TOS recently, and both Shatner and Nimoy, in my opinion, actually had more depth and subtlety in their performances than Kelley. Not to say that McCoy wasn't a great character, but overall McCoy is more tied to the popular perception of a country curmudgeon who loves metephors than Kirk is tied to the overacting and Spock to the raised eyebrow and "fascinating".

Urban is also from New Zealand, which means he is having to force a Deep South American accent. That takes concentration and focus, which may restrict him from being more subtle and avoiding a more overt imitation of the original "Bones".

 

[Franklin]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Kirk and Spock are the most interesting TOS characters, so it makes sense that any reboot would focus on them.
I do agree that the nuTrek McCoy is really an impersonation, but Deforest's style and mannerisms are so distinctive that any actor inheriting the role would have no choice but copy him almost completely.

Why? The same claims can be made about Nimoy and, especially, Shatner yet neither Pine nor Quinto go to the lengths Urban does (much to their credit).

I don't know. I have been rewatching TOS recently, and both Shatner and Nimoy, in my opinion, actually had more depth and subtlety in their performances than Kelley. Not to say that McCoy wasn't a great character, but overall McCoy is more tied to the popular perception of a country curmudgeon who loves metephors than Kirk is tied to the overacting and Spock to the raised eyebrow and "fascinating".

Urban is also from New Zealand, which means he is having to force a Deep South American accent. That takes concentration and focus, which may restrict him from being more subtle and avoiding a more overt imitation of the original "Bones".

I dunno, either. I seem to remember Urban himself saying back in 2009 that he deliberately played McCoy close to Kelley's McCoy, but I can't find the reference. I did find that Nimoy said in an interview in 2009 that Urban's performance moved him to tears, and was, ..."so moving, so touching and so powerful as Dr. McCoy, that I think D. Kelley would be smiling, and maybe in tears as well."

The thing is, McCoy is the "vent" among the characters. He's the one allowed to let off steam and sometimes speak truth to reason. A character like that has memorable moments and neat lines, but he must also be taken in small doses or it wears thin.

Even in TOS and the movies, Kirk can get tired of McCoy's rants and cut him off, or he'll just dismiss them.

I've always seen him as an outside observer, who's job it is to point out when something seems ridiculous. He's needed. Imagine Kirk and Spock having a serious discussion about time travel to go back and get some whales without McCoy saying what everyone in the theater is thinking: it's an outlandish, dangerous, stupid, and crazy scheme.

His rant about Genesis in TWOK basically crystalized the ethical and philosophical problems of such a device in a couple of lines.

He's a very needed character, but I would say he's been less inclined to drive any action as he has been to comment on it and become a sometimes reluctant participant.

I guess the bottom line is McCoy is so set in his cynical but humanistic ways that it is probably hard to find multiple angles for playing the character.

 

[Mudd]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

My ex-wife, no trekkie, watched TWOK with me in 1982 and, when McCoy and Spock started going at it over the Genesis Device, leaned over to me and asked "Why does Kirk put up with this?"

Seriously, if an actor can do Kirk without imitating Shatner there's no reason an impersonation of Kelley is necessary.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

But "imitating Shatner" is a phrase that has meant different things at different periods of history. Shatner always has injected that classic Look! I ammm... the Captain! cadence into his lines, but there is a depth and variety to the way he played Kirk, in no small part due to the fact that Kirk was the center of virtually every story and therefore had a lot of material to work with. McCoy was at the center of very few stories, and most of the time his role was limited to "vent" or "curmudgeonly conscience/adviser". So Kelley played that role to the hilt, and thus created a distinctive, but unfortunately narrow style and body of Trek work.

So an actor can imitate Shatner and still be more than a caricature, but imitating McCoy? That's harder to do without being a carbon copy of Kelley.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Urban may have been able to take McCoy in a slightly different direction, but I think he'd have done so at his own risk. Things are expected of McCoy's character because of the nature of his dynamic with Kirk and Spock.

It's not that he couldn't be other things. We saw McCoy the charmer in "Shore Leave" and he had some more well-rounded parts in other episodes, but it always gets back to his role with Kirk and Spock that defines the character. I think Jedi is right that it's also what limits him. The character's most famous traits are bound into a very tight space. "I'm a doctor, not a -- ," is probably the second most recognized line out of all of "Star Trek" after, "live long and prosper" (OK, maybe third if one includes, "Khaaaaan!"). It's almost expected of McCoy to say the line, now.

While Pine and Quinto had a lot to draw on to interpret their characters, I'd bet it was probably even easier for Pegg, Saldana, Cho, and Yelchin to make their characters "their own," too, because all four of those characters were never really developed at all. One could take them in just about any direction one wanted to. But every time we see McCoy, we have certain expectations.

If McCoy had a bigger part playing off of more characters than just Kirk and Spock, it would probably give Urban room to interpret and develop the character more, too.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

"Shore Leave" gave Bones something to do besides be the doctor or adviser, and it was nice to see a bit more of his personality.
Even in a "Private Little War" when its just him and Kirk he primarily serves as counter point to Kirk's thought process.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

The last two films have been very kirk and spock centric which is fine but I was hoping maybe trek 3 will be like an avengers type of film, a film with an ensemble cast where all the characters ( iron man, captain america , black widow, hulk , hawkeye and the twins) were all sort of leads in the film than just 2 main leading characters

I will prefer star trek 3 to be about the crew this time and not just about kirk and spock with the others in supporting roles. I believe the first 2 films have done a decent job in establishing their friendship now its time for the film to evolve from there and focus on the other characters and give them the same development like they have given kirk and spock.

I would like to see Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Basically more McCoy. Urban does a great job at portraying the character and sadly Abrams never used him much in favor of going with a Spock, Kirk, Uhura love triangle which I never got into because if frankly felt cliché and kind of like a soap opera. In the series Spock was the logical non emotional intellect, McCoy was the emotional but gifted doctor and Kirk was in between Spock and McCoy he a gifted leader and actually had some traits of both McCoy and Spock basically emotional at times and calm and tough as nails at other times. Pretty much a great dynamic. The new movies unfortunately took that away and now McCoy is a shadow of the previous incarnation. I hope Pegg fixes that.

 

[Mudd]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

They're not going to replace Uhura with McCoy.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

They're not going to replace Uhura with McCoy.

So they will be giving Uhura more screen time? How do you know this?

 

[BillJ]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

They're not going to replace Uhura with McCoy.

So they will be giving Uhura more screen time? How do you know this?

That wasn't what he said. But from a pure marketing standpoint, it wouldn't be smart to lessen the screen time of a star that has been in two huge sci-fi hits (Avatar, Guardians of the Galaxy) that have a combined $3.4 billion dollars in worldwide grosses.

Saldana is pretty much geek royalty at this point.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

They're not going to replace Uhura with McCoy.

So they will be giving Uhura more screen time? How do you know this?

That wasn't what he said. But from a pure marketing standpoint, it wouldn't be smart to lessen the screen time of a star that has been in two huge sci-fi hits (Avatar, Guardians of the Galaxy) that have a combined $3.4 billion dollars in worldwide grosses.

Saldana is pretty much geek royalty at this point.

To me Saldanas best role was in Guardians. I am not a fan of Avatar because I found the CGI cartoony and in ST she just seems to be a whiny girlfriend of Spock(Mostly in ST09). I don't get why so many do not want to see Urbans McCoy shine more in the moves. He does a fantastic job. McCoy is a doctor and really needs to be in the landing parties when they start to explore.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

To me Saldanas best role was in Guardians. I am not a fan of Avatar because I found the CGI cartoony and in ST she just seems to be a whiny girlfriend of Spock(Mostly in ST09). I don't get why so many do not want to see Urbans McCoy shine more in the moves. He does a fantastic job. McCoy is a doctor and really needs to be in the landing parties when they start to explore.

I like McCoy, but I don't want them to force him into situations just for the sake of it because Saldana is a very, very talented actress and her presence doesn't hurt the movies.

Many times in TOS, his presence seemed awkward at best.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

They're not going to replace Uhura with McCoy.

They can't use both?

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I don't get why so many do not want to see Urbans McCoy shine more in the moves.

How many have said that this is what they do not want to see?

If anything, most comments I can recall expressing an opinion on the matter were in favor of more McCoy, not less. Where are you seeing the "so many" opposed?

 

[beamMe]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

They're not going to replace Uhura with McCoy.

They can't use both?

Whatever McCoy's role in the film will be, the marketing will again concentrate itself on Kirk, Spock and Uhura.
They have been established as the stars for these films.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I agree but I also think you could expect more interactions between the guys and more Mccoy and dudebro stuff because Pegg is all about the male characters (listen to his interviews) and I'm sure his own bias influenced this aspect of the story and possibly changed the tone of the first two movies a bit.
The producers probably had to 'force' him to not scale back Uhura's role too much but she and her connection to kirk and spock clearly doesn't interest him because he made a point in interviews (before he became a writer) that for him the story are the male characters only.