Am I the only one who dislikes the Enterprise-E?

[Kronos]

Hmmm..."Main Engineering", "Nacelles", "Saucer Section"...

...can't find a "butt"...

And, before you tell me to "...go look in a mirror!", I am just kidding, Kronos!!!

Well, you just need to consider the entire thing as a hole...erm... I mean whole

This

 

[Ithekro]

Enterprise's problem in TFF was she was understaffed. Not enough time to recall the crew, or if they actually had a full crew at that point. She barely had a skeleton crew aboard, and had glitches from her trial run still being fixed. Her engine was fine, she could go anywhere, just it be a pain getting from one section of the ship to another if the doors don't open or the computer goes wonky.

There were other ships, but just one James T. Kirk. It be quicker to take Enterprise than to transfer him and his staff to another ship, then go to Nimbus III. Time was something they didn't have much of in a hostage crisis.

In Generation, the new Enterprise happens to be the closest ship, and procedure is that the closest ship goes unless it can't. Despite her shortcoming, Enterprise was still able to render assistance. If they had left it to the next nearest ship, both transports would have been destroyed will all hands (that might be a good thing, but really it isn't).

In TWOK, Carol Marcus called Admiral Kirk. While they were supposedly the only ship in the "quadrant", save of course USS Reliant (why that was missed I can't guess), in reality, Enterprise should respond because they were the ones called by the Genesis team.

In TMP, Enterprise is the only starship in interception range of V'Ger. There may be other ships in range, but given that the thing just vaped three Klingon battlecruisers, I suppose Starfleet ruled out anything less than a starship would have even a remote chance of doing anything. It also might be due to speed. The cloud likely didn't slow down much if at all on the way to Earth from its encounter with the Klingons. Enterprise was keeping up and on slow approach at warp seven. Back in TOS, Mr. Scott would be complaining about anything over warp six. Cruising at warp seven just to keep pace with the cloud is probably outside the normal activity range of most other ships in Starfleet and possibly the older Starships. So it might just be a case of only Enterprise is in position and fast enough and considered powerful enough to intercept the cloud, while a half dozen smaller ships are told to stay away and the next nearest Starship is a day too far out. And the nearest Dreadnought might not be able to make it in time, or Starfleet was not confident in them against these sorts of things.

 

[MacLeod]

Enterprise's problem in TFF was she was understaffed. Not enough time to recall the crew, or if they actually had a full crew at that point. She barely had a skeleton crew aboard, and had glitches from her trial run still being fixed. Her engine was fine, she could go anywhere, just it be a pain getting from one section of the ship to another if the doors don't open or the computer goes wonky.

There were other ships, but just one James T. Kirk. It be quicker to take Enterprise than to transfer him and his staff to another ship, then go to Nimbus III. Time was something they didn't have much of in a hostage crisis.

Well the fact that theri were other ships available sort of implies that they could reach Nimbus III in a similar timescale to the ENT, so you have the ENT rendezvous with one of them on route to the Nimbus system.

 

[TheSubCommander]

The 14 year old me on seeing First Contact for the first time loved it and much preferred it to the D (which I wasn't a fan of).

However, as an adult, I have grown to think of it as over-designed and over-aggresive in appearance as a Starfleet vessel. I have also come to appreciate the D more with age too.

I always felt that "D" looked distorted, and found "E" to be a step back towards what I considered the classic shape.

When I first saw the Enterprise-E, I was thrilled because it looked more like a throwback to the TMP incarnation. When TNG debuted, I was not a fan of the Enterprise-D. It took all of first season before I warmed up to it, and I remember wishing they had just used the Excelsior model as a basis for a refit version (little did I know they would basically do that with the Enterprise-B years later).

But I eventually became used to, and even came to really like the Enterprise-D. When it was destroyed in Generations, I remember being a bit upset about it, but when I saw Enterprise-E, I felt it was a worthy successor. In fact, I remember thinking it was what the E-D should have looked like in the first place, since its style looked more like the classic design.

But over the years, the Enterprise-E has lost its luster for me. The Enterprise-D's look, maybe partly due to nostalgia, partly coming to appreciate its design, has actually grown for me, and the Enterprise-E has faded. In retrospect, destroying the Enterprise-D felt so cheap and unnecessary, and I can't help but think what a missed opportunity for a a big screen appearance of AGT future Enterprise-D.

In retrospect, if the Enterprise D was to be replaced, I really wish the Enterprise-E looked more like this ship.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/31/star-trek-onlines-iconic-excalibur-class-vessel/

She does look a little too... stretchy. And I thought the Vengence in "Into Darkness" looked a lot like the E...

Agreed. Intentional or not, when I first saw the Vengeance, my first thought was it resembled the E-E quite a bit.

 

[Lance]

I wasn't even talking about the actual design, but the ship as being something special. We had seven years to get to know the Enterprise-D as being something of a home for Picard's crew through thick and thin. Before that, there was nearly twenty years of Kirk and Scotty occasionally obsessing over the original Enterprise and regarding her as something to be treasured. In comparison, the Enterprise-E was merely...an object, a means to an end, and not really shown as anything more, IMO.

The 1701-D felt more a character unto itself, especially after all we'd been through with her. Comparatively, I find the 1701-E cold and distant, both internally and externally. I just can't attach myself to her in the three movies that we saw her in, she's just kind of... "there".

This and this. I didn't actively dislike the E, but she never grew on me...and for my money, she never earned her place as a hero ship in the series. I think that the big miscalculation was in giving us a completely new and different ship from her predecessor for the sake of being new and different. With the TMP refit, they redesigned the ship in a way that was evocative of the original, and were able to perpetrate the illusion that it was the same ship with an upgrade. This more easily allowed both the fans and the characters in the films to transfer any affection for the original to the film version.

Absolutely. The 1701-refit configuration felt like a refinement of the TOS aesthetics, not a replacement. Both internally and externally, it feels like the same ship with more elegant lines. The Enterprise-E doesn't feel like it's got enough of a 'connection' to the 1701-D aesthetic. I can understand why they went for a look that was basically the complete antithesis of what we were used to seeing on television, but I think it backfired big time. All of the changes, for me, are just a little too much to take on board at once. It felt like they were a little too eager to throw out everything they had disliked about the TNG-aesthetic, including blowing up 1701-D itself, so the 1701-E ended up feeling more like a shallow replacement rather than a worthy successor.

That's how I feel about it anyway.

 

[beamMe]

1. That was always just used as a plot device to get the Enterprise into the Frey in both TMP and the Enterprise B in Generations.

Star Trek II, she was the only ship in the area. Star Trek III, there were obviously no ships between Earth and the Mutara Sector to intercept the Enterprise. Star Trek V, they send a woefully under prepared Enterprise to Nimbus III.

First, in TMP, Enterprise was the biggest, best equipped ship in V'Ger's line of travel. In TWOK, Kirk called Starfleet Command and was probably given orders to investigate, as Enterprise was already deployed.

In TMP the Enterprise wasn't ready; her engines hadn't even been tested yet in the field; her commander wasn't familiar with her (which almost caused her destruction and the death of everyone on board); the glitchy transporter-system killed two people before the ship even left the drydock, the chief engineer (the guy most familiar with the innards of the ship) needed the help of the character who was out of the loop for years completely -- all those bits of "tension" and "drama" in the script make our heroes and Starfleet look incompetent.

Though, I still enjoy that sleeping pill of a movie.

The Enterprise-E doesn't feel like it's got enough of a 'connection' to the 1701-D aesthetic.

Well, it's more of a evolution from the design of the Voyager.

 

[BillJ]

The Enterprise-E doesn't feel like it's got enough of a 'connection' to the 1701-D aesthetic.

Well, it's more of a evolution from the design of the Voyager.

Which was a huge mistake. I always felt they took Voyager, the Excelsior and the Enterprise-refit, put them all in a bag and stomped on it to create the Enterprise-E.

 

[beamMe]

The Enterprise-E doesn't feel like it's got enough of a 'connection' to the 1701-D aesthetic.

Well, it's more of a evolution from the design of the Voyager.

Which was a huge mistake. I always felt they took Voyager, the Excelsior and the Enterprise-refit, put them all in a bag and stomped on it to create the Enterprise-E.

Well, Eaves did the redesign of the Excelsior into the E-B and Probert's Refit is something of a gold standard of Trek-ships, IMO, so I don't think you are that far off.

I like the Voyager-design, but it's also a lot more chunky and "practical" than, say, the Refit - which is a beautiful design, but puts far more emphasis on form rather than function. But Sternbach started us on that design-road and Eaves followed it to the E-E.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I never cared for John Eaves' design aesthetic.

 

[T'Girl]

Well the fact that theri were other ships available sort of implies that they could reach Nimbus III in a similar timescale to the ENT, so you have the ENT rendezvous with one of them on route to the Nimbus system.

Why? There was nothing wrong with the Enterprise's engines, and they were only responding to the kidnapping of three people.

Why pull another ship off it's assigned duties?

 

[nx1701g]

The Enterprise-E doesn't feel like it's got enough of a 'connection' to the 1701-D aesthetic.

Well, it's more of a evolution from the design of the Voyager.

From an in character perspective that makes sense though. Voyager was, from behind the scenes materials at least, one of the first ships designed to overcome the damage to subspace when at high warp speeds. It'd make sense for the newer classes of ships to fall more under that aesthetic than those of the Enterprise-D for that reason.

When she was being first designed the E-E was even supposed to have the pivoting nacelles of the Intrepid Class.

 

[Ithekro]

Well the fact that theri were other ships available sort of implies that they could reach Nimbus III in a similar timescale to the ENT, so you have the ENT rendezvous with one of them on route to the Nimbus system.

Why? There was nothing wrong with the Enterprise's engines, and they were only responding to the kidnapping of three people.

Why pull another ship off it's assigned duties?

Exactly. You would have either two starships in motion while only one would be used at Nimbus III (Enterprise would head for home once Kirk was dropped off), or you'd have a smaller ship or warp shuttle carry Kirk to his new command and hope he reaches it before it's getting into orbit of Nimbus III, or that it doesn't have to sit and wait for him, or worse, backtrack towards Earth to get him them warp to Nimbus III. All of those are potential delays that are not recommended in a hostage situation. Also Starfleet seemed worried the Klingon and Romulans might move as well, and wanted to be sure Starfleet not only got their first, but also has a captain that could deal with them...assuming the ship he is in is suited to the task of denying Klingon or Romulan intervention.

The only reason not to just send one of those other ships without Kirk is that Starfleet doesn't think their commanding officer is experienced enough to deal with this sort of situation. That or they think they might be able to handle it, but need the reputation of James T. Kirk in order to hold off the Romulans and Klingons (or simple PR). That the Klingon captain actually jumped at the chance to fight Kirk might have compromised Starfleet's idea about the mission using Kirk. But then Klaa wanted to fight any Federation Starship. That it was Kirk just made him excited.

 

[beamMe]

Well, the biggest break in the aesthetic of Trek came with TMP. From then on all we got was variations on a theme for over 30 years.
DS9 at least looked different.

Oh, and we've seen what happened when they tried to recapture the feel of the TV-show: Insurrection.

 

[Lance]

The Enterprise-E doesn't feel like it's got enough of a 'connection' to the 1701-D aesthetic.

Well, it's more of a evolution from the design of the Voyager.

From an in character perspective that makes sense though. Voyager was, from behind the scenes materials at least, one of the first ships designed to overcome the damage to subspace when at high warp speeds. It'd make sense for the newer classes of ships to fall more under that aesthetic than those of the Enterprise-D for that reason.

When she was being first designed the E-E was even supposed to have the pivoting nacelles of the Intrepid Class.

It's not just the exterior though, it's everything about the ship, inside and out. I'm not saying USS Voyager is any better at following the 'TNG aesthetic', but when you're selling a set of movies based upon a popular TV show (and TNG was huge in its day), then it seems to me counterproductive to completely redesign *everything* as much as they did from First Contact onwards. From the uniforms, to the sets, to the filming model, *nothing* aboard 1701-E carries over any of the warmth of 1701-D, which is something that I reckon was as much a part of the TV show as any of the main characters. In retrospect, it feels just like we saw 'The Next Generation' itself go down in flames on Veridian III, and none of the movies that came after it ever quite managed to recapture the right feel. And I think 1701-E itself is a part of the problem.

 

[Lance]

Well, the biggest break in the aesthetic of Trek came with TMP. From then on all we got was variations on a theme for over 30 years.

As we addressed earlier in the thread, the TMP refit still carries over the design lines from TOS. Internally (the bridge) and externally alike, it feels like a subtle update of the TOS design, *not* an complete change.

The TNG movies just don't feel like it respects what TNG actually was. For better or for worse. 1701-E itself is just symptomatic of that.

I'll admit, if one were the kind of viewer who had spent seven years hating the ''beige'' aesthetic of the TV show, then I don't doubt 1701-E must have felt like a refreshing change. But certainly from my point-of-view, it was like we'd seen an old friend being hung, drawn, quartered, and replaced by Frakenstein's monster.

 

[beamMe]

Well, the biggest break in the aesthetic of Trek came with TMP. From then on all we got was variations on a theme for over 30 years.

As we addressed earlier in the thread, the TMP refit still carries over the design lines from TOS. Internally (the bridge) and externally alike, it feels like a subtle update of the TOS design, *not* an complete change.

The TNG movies just don't feel like it respects what TNG actually was. For better or for worse. 1701-E itself is just symptomatic of that.

I'll admit, if one were the kind of viewer who had spent seven years hating the ''beige'' aesthetic of the TV show, then I don't doubt 1701-E must have felt like a refreshing change. But certainly from my point-of-view, it was like we'd seen an old friend being hung, drawn, quartered, and replaced by Frakenstein's monster.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing subtle about the change from TOS to TMP. It's a visual reboot.

The TNG movies actually are a progression of the aesthetic that was set in TMP (though, that a real version of Starfleet would actually stick with the basics of that for over a hundred years would be unlikely). At least internally the E-E is much closer to the E-D than the Refit ever was to the TOS-version of the Enterprise.

 

[Balrog]

E-E was not my favorite when first introduced. I missed the E-D. E-E in FC was like having a first Christmas with your parents in a place that's not your childhood home. But as a ship, it's nice.

What I did not care for re: E-E was the change of mission from the E-D. The E-D was an exploration vessel. It was built for long-distant, multi-generational space travel. Its aesthetic inside and out reflected that IMO.

The E-E stripped away all that. It looks sleek, sure. But it seems too militaristic inside and out. That change I did not and still do not like about the E-E from the E-D.

But I like much about the ship itself.

I like how Trek's ships look from different angles. E-E looks great from below at an angle, but not from straight on IMO. It's kind of like the E-D which looked better from below than from above.

But I'm picky. The only starship I think films well from most any angle is the E-refit/E-A. That ship is the best rendition IMO.

 

[martok2112]

E-E was not my favorite when first introduced. I missed the E-D. E-E in FC was like having a first Christmas with your parents in a place that's not your childhood home. But as a ship, it's nice.

What I did not care for re: E-E was the change of mission from the E-D. The E-D was an exploration vessel. It was built for long-distant, multi-generational space travel. Its aesthetic inside and out reflected that IMO.

The E-E stripped away all that. It looks sleek, sure. But it seems too militaristic inside and out. That change I did not and still do not like about the E-E from the E-D.

But I like much about the ship itself.

I like how Trek's ships look from different angles. E-E looks great from below at an angle, but not from straight on IMO. It's kind of like the E-D which looked better from below than from above.

But I'm picky. The only starship I think films well from most any angle is the E-refit/E-A. That ship is the best rendition IMO.

Yes, of all the Prime Universe Enterprises, the refit/A is my favorite too.

I do prefer the E-E over the E-D. But, over them both, I prefer the E-B. (Love the Excelsior class.)

 

[Balrog]

I liked the E-B Excelsior refit from Gen even more than the original Excelsior.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I have a "meh" attitude towards the Ent-E. My favorite ships from ST:FC were the other new designs created for the film - the Akira, Steamrunner, Norway and Saber classes.