Petition for a return of the "Q Who" - Borg in the Novels!

[zarkon]

I did far prefer the inexorable locusts of q-who who spoke only with a chorus of voices myself too.

But don't forget there was that very interesting line from the end of the ep, where Guinan says:

"Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them."

Which suggests that there was more to them, and that perhaps as originally envisaged it was possible for races to have alliances or treaties with them, so they probably would have been fleshed out in a way that made them less implacable eventually. Although perhaps not in the disappointing way that actually transpired.

Maybe in that reality we would also get to see the history between Guinan & Q, and find out what her hand movements were supposed to do to an omnipotent being

 

[Therin of Andor]

Although perhaps not in the disappointing way that actually transpired.

Disappointing for you, perhaps. Borg episodes were crowd pleasers, and rated well for Voyager and "First Contact" and the Pocket novels, which is why they kept coming back.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

I did far prefer the inexorable locusts of q-who who spoke only with a chorus of voices myself too.

But don't forget there was that very interesting line from the end of the ep, where Guinan says:

"Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them."

Which suggests that there was more to them, and that perhaps as originally envisaged it was possible for races to have alliances or treaties with them, so they probably would have been fleshed out in a way that made them less implacable eventually. Although perhaps not in the disappointing way that actually transpired.

Maybe in that reality we would also get to see the history between Guinan & Q, and find out what her hand movements were supposed to do to an omnipotent being

Great post! That's exactly as i see it!

 

[zarkon]

Although perhaps not in the disappointing way that actually transpired.

Disappointing for you, perhaps. Borg episodes were crowd pleasers, and rated well for Voyager and "First Contact" and the Pocket novels, which is why they kept coming back.

Lots of things that are disappointing to me do nicely

voyager got seven seasons...

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Although perhaps not in the disappointing way that actually transpired.

Disappointing for you, perhaps. Borg episodes were crowd pleasers, and rated well for Voyager and "First Contact" and the Pocket novels, which is why they kept coming back.

If is like that, then why are there so many fans that don't want to see them again? :-)

 

[Idran]

Although perhaps not in the disappointing way that actually transpired.

Disappointing for you, perhaps. Borg episodes were crowd pleasers, and rated well for Voyager and "First Contact" and the Pocket novels, which is why they kept coming back.

If is like that, then why are there so many fans that don't want to see them again? :-)

Because there's a lot of both? Why do you think that there being a lot of people that feel one way means that there aren't a lot of people that feel the other way?

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Disappointing for you, perhaps. Borg episodes were crowd pleasers, and rated well for Voyager and "First Contact" and the Pocket novels, which is why they kept coming back.

If is like that, then why are there so many fans that don't want to see them again? :-)

Because there's a lot of both? Why do you think that there being a lot of people that feel one way means that there aren't a lot of people that feel the other way?

The Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi and Cardies don't seem to have much of that problem...

 

[Idran]

If is like that, then why are there so many fans that don't want to see them again? :-)

Because there's a lot of both? Why do you think that there being a lot of people that feel one way means that there aren't a lot of people that feel the other way?

The Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi and Cardies don't seem to have much of that problem...

When was the last time we saw early TNG-style Ferengi?

 

[Christopher]

When was the last time we saw early TNG-style Ferengi?

Probably in DC's TNG comic. But really, I don't see why anyone would want to revert the Ferengi to that unsuccessful first-draft version. It was changed for a reason.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi and Cardies don't seem to have much of that problem...

You don't get around much. Plenty of fans complained about Klingons in DS9 (and when Worf joined the show) and ENT and "Into Darkness", and the Romulans in "Nemesis", ENT and the 2009 movie.

 

[Idran]

When was the last time we saw early TNG-style Ferengi?

Probably in DC's TNG comic. But really, I don't see why anyone would want to revert the Ferengi to that unsuccessful first-draft version. It was changed for a reason.

Oh, yeah, that was my point. That was changed for a reason, and so were the Borg.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

When was the last time we saw early TNG-style Ferengi?

Probably in DC's TNG comic. But really, I don't see why anyone would want to revert the Ferengi to that unsuccessful first-draft version. It was changed for a reason.

Oh, yeah, that was my point. That was changed for a reason, and so were the Borg.

Without respect for the fans who liked the early version of the borg much more (-:

 

[fancealot]

Just got one thing to say about the borg and that's Borg T-Rex = awesome!!!! Thanks Christopher for that one it made me chuckle and love the fact it still tried to say resistance is futile via roars he he!

 

[Unimatrix Q]

I hate how they retconned the borg in Voyager to ever have been Spacezombies! That wasn't what many fans (including myself) fall in love with. They used the borg in FC and Voyager because they were popular, but took all what made them interesting away from them!

 

[Christopher]

Without respect for the fans who liked the early version of the borg much more (-:

It's got nothing to do with respect. It's about finding ways to tell more stories that work. Every idea evolves over time. If everything were required to conform to its earliest version, then shows would never improve or learn from their mistakes. Of course no change is going to please everyone, but that's exactly why it makes no sense to expect writers to prioritize one subset of fans over others. It's a given that, no matter what decision you make, some members of the audience will like it and others will dislike it. So you can't worry about that. You just focus on coming up with new and effective story ideas.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I hate how they retconned the borg in Voyager to ever have been Spacezombies! That wasn't what many fans (including myself) fall in love with. They used the borg in FC and Voyager because they were popular, but took all what made them interesting away from them!

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. The Borg as depicted in both FC and Voyager were different than the Borg of early-TNG, but they were no less interesting. The Borg Queen was a great character played by two amazing actors (Susanna Thompson prefers the gender-neutral term), and her inclusion actually made me more curious about the Borg, not less.

I do have a problem with the way the Borg were watered-down as Voyager progressed--to the point that a single torpedo could destroy one of their vessels--but I don't have a problem with the way the Collective was depicted, nor do I have any complaints about the use of various characters to serve as voices for the Collective.

--Sran

 

[Therin of Andor]

Without respect for the fans who liked the early version of the borg much more (-:

How is a group of writers, costumers and makeup artists trying to improve their own stories and concepts disrespecting the fans?

I suppose you wanted to see only white-faced humanoid Borg in black wetsuits on the big screen in "First Contact"?

Keep in mind that the Borg was originally conceived as an insectoid race, and they moved to cyborgs for budgetry reasons.

 

[Christopher]

As a creator, it's weird to me how attached some fans get to the earliest version of a thing. After all, the earliest version they see is itself usually the end result of a long behind-the-scenes process of trial, error, and development. First drafts are rarely ideal. As you try something out, you learn what works and what doesn't, and you do what you can to improve it. When you're working on a continuing series, that process of refinement has to happen with the audience watching, and partly in response to the audience's reactions. So the earliest version of an idea is often the crudest, the least refined, and to a creator, the least desirable one.

True, there can be a certain spontaneity and freshness to a new idea that can be sacrificed if you overdo the refinement. But for the most part, every first version of a thing needs some tweaking along the way.

 

[Therin of Andor]

^Totally agree. And no costume designer or makeup artist is going to win awards for Most Slavish Recreation of a pre-existing costume or makeup design, hence every new Trek attempts to improve, or at least put a new spin, on what has gone before.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

^Totally agree. And no costume designer or makeup artist is going to win awards for Most Slavish Recreation of a pre-existing costume or makeup design, hence every new Trek attempts to improve, or at least put a new spin, on what has gone before.

It isn't so much about Costumes, Makeup and Design for me. What bothers me is the Concept of a Queen, that rules the hive and the changing of the Borg from just interested in technology to assimilating everyone. The original borg were a mysterious really alien race that were dumbed down to a mainstream baddy. It didn't help that they were then defanged in Voyager. It would have been far more interesting if they had followed the thing Guinan said in Q Who about a possible relationship and cooperation with the borg later on...