the JJprise is actually the Enterprise A?

[Khan 2.0]

just read a recent ST09/STID article and this part

16. In the story universe, the ship in the film is the second Constitution Class USS Enterprise, according to the back story worked out for the film, that was explored in the in-canon IDW/Bad Robot comics. When Starfleet (via Section 31?) discovered that the Klingons had reverse engineered technology from the Narada while Nero and his crew were on Rura Penthe, operatives smuggled out the technology. This is where the major changes in technology occur in the alternative timeline.

As the Klingon Defence Force replaced its D-7 Battle Cruisers with the vessels designated as Klingon Warbirds by Starfleet, Starleet started replacing its fleet too, with the original Constitution Class USS Enterprise having already completed its tour of duty with Captain Robert April (who faked his own death) , and a tour with Captain Pike (including the events of The Cage, perhaps) before being decommissioned and directly replaced with the Constitution (Mark 2?) class vessel seen in the film.

From a production point of view, when you think about it, there are a few pointers about the ship's design that suggest it may well be the second. The saucer section especially echoes that of the refit Enterprise and Enterprise-A from the first six original series cast Star Trek films, and indeed, the paint job using interference/pearlescent paint was specifically to mimic that of the refitted Enterprise in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Read more: http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/sta...hings-about-the-jj-abrams-films#ixzz3eLqo4A1p

I had no idea the JJprise was actually the 2nd Enterprise thus making it the Ent 'A'.
I haven't been keeping up to date with the Ongoing IDW series so im assuming it was revealed in those at some point (had read the Countdown to Darkness featuring April and his Ent but hadn't made the connection so maybe it was expanded in future issues?).

anyway in STB I hope they alter it abit so its looks even more like the Movies I-VI Ent (never liked the JJ nacelles much)

EDIT - Apologies, I see this has already been discussed in a previous thread (to which I posted in!)

 

[Starborn Dragon]

No, it will only be lettered AFTER it is destroyed when the Duras sisters find the right frequency....

Which should teach you to ALWAYS check your visor.

Although with his new eyes in First Contact I'm not so sure they can just take them out like that now.

 

[The Wormhole]

First, comics are not canon, and anything established in them does not count in the movies. Indeed, STID contradicts the comics at every turn.

Now, while it is true that Countdown to Darkness does reveal another Enterprise in service some twenty years prior which does resemble the Constitution design and does have the registry NCC-1701, that does not make the "JJprise" the Enterprise A. The one thing to remember is that the IDW comics are remarkably sloppy and are loaded with mistakes. We've seen characters slap their chest insignia as though they were comm badges, 24th century LCARS displays are shockingly common and a whole load of other mistakes. Hell, there wasn't even any real consistency between Countdown to Darkness and the Ongoing comic line, since the Ongoing Scotty flashback includes a reference to Alexander Marcus being head of the Academy Admissions Board at the same time Countdown to Darkness has him serving as XO on the Enterprise under Captain Robert April. And that's ignoring that the ongoing features the Kelvin era uniforms being used in this era while Countdown to Darkness has the TOS-style uniforms being used.

Besides, there is nothing in the comics to indicate that Starfleet was reacting to intelligence that the Klingons were designing new ships based on Narada's technology. Indeed, when such ships show up in the comics, it's after STID and they are a surprise to everyone. I don't know where the article gets the idea these are the term "warbird" applies to these ships which are replacements for the D-7, Trek XI refers to the D-7s as "warbirds" in the Kobayashi Maru simulation.

In light of this, I'm inclined to think the NCC-1701 showing up on Robert April's Enterprise is nothing more than a mistake and nothing further should be read into it. I'm sure it had some other registry, likely with an idiotic leading zero. The Enterprise seen in the films is the first to have the NCC-1701 registry.

And before someone waltzes in here claiming Trek XI was supposed to open with the original 1701 commanded by Captain April destroyed by the Narada, please support this claim with a source other than IMDB.

 

[Kemaiku]

The 1701 in the new movies is "the" original Enterprise of it's universe, starting construction sometime prior to 2255 and launched 2258 rather than the 2245 of the prime universe.

The "power wall" in Marcus' office visible in the movie does show another ship exactly the same configuration as the JJ Enterprise but less than half the size, but lists it with a different class index code (the ships are labelled by X:123 or something like that rather than a class).

That one would be the size of the original Enterprise, but given the same specs, likely produced alongside the new one.

Marcus' model collection shows the same NX-01 to 1701 gap as the prime universe, no ship in between.

 

[Ithekro]

Marcus does have an old style Constitution-class model hanging from his ceiling.

 

[Mage]

I don't remember a JJPrise from the movie. When was that ship seen? Did it move out with the fleet headed for Vulcan, right before the Enterprise?

 

[M'Sharak]

...

EDIT - Apologies, I see this has already been discussed in a previous thread (to which I posted in!)

The previous thread in question:

Kirk Enterprise - the Enterprise(a)?

 

[Kemaiku]

Marcus does have an old style Constitution-class model hanging from his ceiling.

The scene was deliberately removed from the movie so that doesn't count. It was also not the Enterprise which doesn't prove there was another one in any way.

 

[The Wormhole]

Marcus does have an old style Constitution-class model hanging from his ceiling.

The scene was deliberately removed from the movie so that doesn't count. It was also not the Enterprise which doesn't prove there was another one in any way.

Also, in the script it was meant to be the Abrams style Constitution. They just inserted the TOS style as an Easter egg for the scene after it was deleted.

 

[nx1701g]

First, comics are not canon, and anything established in them does not count in the movies. Indeed, STID contradicts the comics at every turn.

I thought that Countdown was at least considered canon... I seem to recall Abrams saying around the release date that the story was part of his 'canon'.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^The novels have been allowed to ignore it, so I guess not.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Countdown is not, and never was, canon.

 

[M'Sharak]

First, comics are not canon, and anything established in them does not count in the movies. Indeed, STID contradicts the comics at every turn.

I thought that Countdown was at least considered canon... I seem to recall Abrams saying around the release date that the story was part of his 'canon'.

In one interview, Orci was badgered into saying Countdown was canon, and then within a day walked it back. That's about as close as any of the tie-in comics ever came.

Edited to add:

This, quoting from the summaryof the Q&A Orci and Kurtzman did at TrekMovie:

Inconsistencies between film and "Countdown" can be explained that the comic is not canon

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/22/orci-and-kurtzman-reveal-star-trek-details-in-trekmovie-fan-qa/

And quoting from the Q&A session itself, Orci's comment at #495

495. Boborci - May 18, 2009 103. cugel the clever – May 18, 2009
QUESTION:
In “Countdown”, the Narada effortlessly destroyed an armada of 24th century Klingon warships and disabled the Enterprise-E with one volley. However, in the film, the Kelvin (and early 23rd century ship) actually managed to exchange fire and survive for at least several minutes. It even managed to damage the Narada by ramming it. Logically, this makes no sense…. it should have been destroyed immediately (and Kirk&mother killed) given the firepower possessed by the Narada.
This is like the Merrimac surviving a firefight with the Bismark.
Care to explain this inconsistency?
—————-
(Answer) Easy. The comic is not canon?

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/18/orc...ranscript-of-last-weeks-impromptu-qa/#1828719

 

[The Wormhole]

First, comics are not canon, and anything established in them does not count in the movies. Indeed, STID contradicts the comics at every turn.

I thought that Countdown was at least considered canon... I seem to recall Abrams saying around the release date that the story was part of his 'canon'.

Since the above post satisfactorily refutes this claim, I'll just add that Abrams himself has never talked about the comics, nor would he. He has nothing to do with them. The comics are, and indeed all tie-in material is supervised and handled by Orci, who as we have already established don't consider them to be canon.

 

[danielcw]

^The novels have been allowed to ignore it, so I guess not.

Which novels?

Since the above post satisfactorily refutes this claim, I'll just add that Abrams himself has never talked about the comics, nor would he.

Note the question-mark "?" at the end of Orci's answer.
It isn't a definite answer.

Later interviews with Orci suggest, that he is not sure what is canon, and (unfortunately) did not want to be an arbiter of cannon.


In the audio commentary of Star Trek (XI) Abrams, Orci & Kurtzman talk about the comic, for a few sentences, but I don't remember what exactly they said. I think, they did not seem to treat it as definite canon though.


Countdown has some continuity issues, but I like to treat it as canon, until a big problem arises. So it is part of my head-canon.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^The novels have been allowed to ignore it, so I guess not.

Which novels?

All of them, except the Star Trek Online novel Needs of the Many. Ask in the Trek Lit section of the board, the authors will tell you they don't consider Countdown canon and that novelverse won't follow it's plotlines.

Here's one of many threads on the subject:http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=241141

 

[The Wormhole]

^The novels have been allowed to ignore it, so I guess not.

Which novels?

All of them. The novels handle Data's resurrection a lot different than Countdown does, as well as his career choices after returning. Not to mention the careers of all the TNG characters are on a different path in the novels than Countdown, and one of the latest novels even takes place towards in 2386, one year prior to Countdown. Hell, the novel Peaceable Kingdoms from 2013 even directly establishes the differences with Picard stating "I have no intention of retiring or becoming an ambassador."

Since the above post satisfactorily refutes this claim, I'll just add that Abrams himself has never talked about the comics, nor would he.

Note the question-mark "?" at the end of Orci's answer.
It isn't a definite answer.[/quote]

The question mark seems to me to be more sarcastic, implying the answer should be obvious. Kind of like if someone says "because we breathe oxygen?" Orci has been very firm in almost every interview the comics aren't canon. The only exception was the infamous Trekmovie interview where he was goaded and manipulated into calling them canon, which he recanted within a day afterwards.

 

[danielcw]

Thanks for the answers about the novels!

If I may quickly ask here: how good is the continuity across the different novels?

The question mark seems to me to be more sarcastic, implying the answer should be obvious. Kind of like if someone says "because we breathe oxygen?" Orci has been very firm in almost every interview the comics aren't canon.

Could you link me to one more interview then, in which Orci gives a clear answer?

IIRC back then Orci's line became, that he does not rule over canon.
But I don't know every interview with him, of course

 

[The Wormhole]

If I may quickly ask here: how good is the continuity across the different novels?

The 24th century novels have a very strong and coherent continuity and shared universe which actually holds together a lot better than many other transmedia shared universes. Even better than some Trek shows have.

Could you link me to one more interview then, in which Orci gives a clear answer?

IIRC back then Orci's line became, that he does not rule over canon.
But I don't know every interview with him, of course

Here's the infamous Trek movie interview where he's forced to declare them canon. Scroll down to Comment 102 for where he recants:

.0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”

Which, okay is him essentially saying he can't decide canon. But in that case, we fall back on the official CBS Word which is that only movies and TV shows are canon. Period. No novels, no comics, no video games, nothing else than the movies and shows.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If I may quickly ask here: how good is the continuity across the different novels?

The 24th century novels have a very strong and coherent continuity and shared universe which actually holds together a lot better than many other transmedia shared universes. even better than some Trek shows have.

Yeah, it's quite amazing - I think every 24th century novel in the past 15 years is part of that shared universe. Many (though not all) 23rd and 22nd century books released in that time are part too and some novels from the 80's have been grandfathered in as well. It's not perfect, but it's extremely impressive.

Here's a thread charting the novelverse in extreme detail.