George & Bill's "Feud"

[Amaris]

I was reading the TrekToday article about George Takei's insistence that it's William Shatner who is keeping their feud going. I love George Takei; he's intelligent, he's funny, he's a kind person, and he's a strong advocate for LGBT rights, but he's the one who has been pushing this whole feud for decades.

When Bill Shatner is interviewed, he doesn't mention George at all. When George is interviewed, he usually manages to put Bill's name in there somewhere. It was even in his docu-drama To Be Takei.

All I can think to say is he needs to let it go. Nichelle Nichols has forgiven him, Jimmy Doohan forgave him, it seems everyone has either forgiven Bill for whatever he may have done, or at the very least stopped talking about it, except for George. He will not leave it alone. To me, this feud has been one sided for many decades, and it's all being carried by George, because from what I've seen, Bill does not give a damn, and has not gave a damn from the start.

I'm probably not alone in thinking this, but your thoughts would be welcome.

Also, mods, if there is a thread on this I apologize, but I didn't see anything anywhere in the fora.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Thing is, there's no hype, there - almost ALL of Takei's "Shatner" stories are decades old! Whilst I do not doubt that Shatner's an egotistical maniac - of which TFF provides damning evidence - the Second Bananas bitching about Shatner has always seemed like Sour Grapes. Shatner, and to a lesser extent Nimoy, always managed to get starring roles in successful shows, whilst the supporting TOS cast always had to cater to TREKKIES at Conventions, just to get their bills paid. Many of Hollywood's currently hot celebrities weren't even born, yet, at the tail end of this going on. So again, there's just no hype, there. Who cares if The Shat wears a wig, or tries to hog the camera? He's an elderly grandfather who hasn't even been on live-action STAR TREK in a quarter of a century. George is no spring chicken, either, how can he remember all of this shit, so exactly, generations later???

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

William Shatner was the Lead Actor, he was the Captain, his name was first in the Actor Credits. The show relied in his appeal, he had the most pressure to sell an episode and give it energy. He had the most on the line as a starring performer career-wise.

Takei, Doohan, Koenig & Nichols were frustrated actors and owe much of their ongoing visibility to Shatner, Nimoy & Kelley. The show was really about them and their characters' adventures. I don't think the forementioned actors ever got that.

I'm sure when you are a guest at conventions for years & people tell you how much they love you and how awesome you are, and wish you had more stories, start to believe it.

Let's be honest: Sulu, Chekov, Scott and Uhura weren't much more than TALKING PROPS.

Having said that, If Shatner was rude and inconsiderate to them as human beings, that's another matter.

 

[Melakon]

If George hadn't gotten on Star Trek, he would have been an unknown actor all these many years, perhaps only remembered for one of the most racist Twilight Zone episodes ever made. George is lucky the show didn't fire him during his unplanned absences while shooting The Green Berets.

 

[Orphalesion]

Let's be honest: Sulu, Chekov, Scott and Uhura weren't much more than TALKING PROPS.

Which is one big reason I can't get into TOS.

On Topic: Again? Who cares if two actors don't like each other? It's their business. Same with all the other "feuds" in the various ST shows.
They are co-workers, not a family, not necessarily friends.

As long as they stayed professional while the cameras were rolling (which they evidently did) there's no issue here.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Let's be honest: Sulu, Chekov, Scott and Uhura weren't much more than TALKING PROPS.

I watched TOS during its initial network run. I found out, much later, that Sulu was absent from several episodes, but I never even noticed it at the time. Even today, after countless repeat viewings of the episodes, I couldn't tell you from memory which ones he's in and which he isn't.

Edited to add: I take it back. I do specifically remember him in two episodes. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" because of Beauregard. And "That Which Survives" for "I don't want to have to shoot a woman!"

 

[Forbin]

Koenig said it himself - 'we were day players, not the stars.'
"Ensemble television" casts were not a thing yet. You had a star, maybe a costar or two. Everybody else was support and background.

 

[Green Shirt]

All I can think to say is he needs to let it go.

For real. If a person wants to be taken seriously as an adult, they can try to start acting like one.

 

[RandyS]

Let's be honest: Sulu, Chekov, Scott and Uhura weren't much more than TALKING PROPS.

I watched TOS during its initial network run. I found out, much later, that Sulu was absent from several episodes, but I never even noticed it at the time. Even today, after countless repeat viewings of the episodes, I couldn't tell you from memory which ones he's in and which he isn't.

Edited to add: I take it back. I do specifically remember him in two episodes. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" because of Beauregard. And "That Which Survives" for "I don't want to have to shoot a woman!"

The "Beauregard" plant was "The Man Trap", and Sulu just sat there and laughed about it. It was Rand who named the plant.

 

[T'Girl]

Having said that, If Shatner was rude and inconsiderate to them as human beings, that's another matter.

One of the things that Shatner "revealed" through the years about Takei was that during the TOS time period is that he (Shatner) never knew Takei's full name, he was just "George." I don't know if that true, but I'm prepare to believe it. Shatner also didn't know the real name of "the transporter guy" either, but he did know the names of most of the actresses.

Now, is that rude or inconsiderate? Maybe. To Shatner, Star Trek was a job and a stepping stone in his career, would it be a reasonable expectation for him to know the names of all the actors ringing the bridge set?

 

[Robert D. Robot]

Edited to add: I take it back. I do specifically remember him in two episodes. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" because of Beauregard. And "That Which Survives" for "I don't want to have to shoot a woman!"

I thought Sulu chasing everyone with a sword in "The Naked Time" would be the Sulu Scene that most folks would think of right off the bat. Gave Spock the first opportunity to show us a nerve pinch, too.

"Take D'Artagnan here to sickbay."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Having said that, If Shatner was rude and inconsiderate to them as human beings, that's another matter.

One of the things that Shatner "revealed" through the years about Takei was that during the TOS time period is that he (Shatner) never knew Takei's full name, he was just "George." I don't know if that true, but I'm prepare to believe it. Shatner also didn't know the real name of "the transporter guy" either, but he did know the names of most of the actresses.

Now, is that rude or inconsiderate? Maybe. To Shatner, Star Trek was a job and a stepping stone in his career, would it be a reasonable expectation for him to know the names of all the actors ringing the bridge set?

I was under the impression that it was not normally considered rude to be addressed by one's first name.

True, Shatner might have taken the time to learn all of the names, but if he's only going to use one, well, might as well be the first, innit?

As for Takei: Whatever. Shatner's ego issues aside, I'm growing rather tired of Takei's "Hey, look at me, look at how edgy I am, look at how I'm milking this 'feud' for all it's worth and just WON'T LET IT DIE!" For some reason I'm getting the impression that Shat is willing to put the whole thing to rest but Takei just gets too much schadenfreude from it to let that happen.

And it's interesting that TFF is being used as 'evidence' of Shat's ego: From what I hear, it was exactly the opposite. Most of the rest of the cast had high praise for Shat as a director - that he was a professional at all times, treated everyone with respect and courtesy, and there was never any of the baggage normally associated with him as a co-star.

Oh, and if George is reading this: CUT IT OUT WITH THE FUCKING "OH MY". That was funny the first 1,000,000 times, but stick a fork in it, it's DONE.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

I wasn't there. I'm in no position to chose sides or whatever. I just want to state:

I really hate this kind of bitching about Shatner for decades. I hate to break this to Koenig, Takei, Nicholls and Doohan...but they were extras. Glorified extras.

Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were the main cast [in that order]. When the others talk about 'being held back' or whatever I can't help but laugh.

 

[Firebird]

George is practically the Old Faithful of bitter celebrity syndrome at this point. It's sad to see him continually beating this dead horse to generate new sympathy or animosity against Shatner.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

And it's interesting that TFF is being used as 'evidence' of Shat's ego: From what I hear, it was exactly the opposite. Most of the rest of the cast had high praise for Shat as a director - that he was a professional at all times, treated everyone with respect and courtesy, and there was never any of the baggage normally associated with him as a co-star.

I've heard this, as well. My understanding is that Shatner went out of his way to make sure each of his co-stars had at least one memorable scene in the film, something that wasn't the case when either Nimoy or Meyer was directing.

I really hate this kind of bitching about Shatner for decades. I hate to break this to Koenig, Takei, Nicholls and Doohan...but they were extras. Glorified extras.

Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were the main cast [in that order]. When the others talk about 'being held back' or whatever I can't help but laugh.

This. As much as Takei and Nichols want to believe that TOS had seven stars, it really had only thee. What's more, it's unlikely the four co-stars would have gained the attention and popularity they have without Shatner and Nimoy carrying the series. Star Trek has given each of them opportunities they'd likely never have had; blaming one of the people who made the series what it is doesn't make sense.

--Sran

 

[Jonas Grumby]

The "Beauregard" plant was "The Man Trap", and Sulu just sat there and laughed about it. It was Rand who named the plant.

Ah, yes, I got the episode names crossed, maybe due to one being the actual pilot, but the other being the first one actually aired.

Anyway, I wasn't giving Sulu credit for naming the plant; I was just referring to the plant by name. And you're right, Sulu really didn't do anything memorable in that scene. In fact, I can't, off the top of my head, remember what he did or said. I just remember that he was upstaged by a guy's hand in a glove.

I thought Sulu chasing everyone with a sword in "The Naked Time" would be the Sulu Scene that most folks would think of right off the bat.

Now that you've reminded me of it, I'd kind of think so too. And yet, when I was searching my memory for memorable Sulu appearances in preparation for my initial post, it didn't even cross my mind. Obviously, he didn't make as strong an impression on me as one would think a guy dashing around a starship with a sword would.

Now, is that rude or inconsiderate? Maybe. To Shatner, Star Trek was a job and a stepping stone in his career, would it be a reasonable expectation for him to know the names of all the actors ringing the bridge set?

Rude? Maybe if they were his co-stars. But, during TOS, they clearly were not. They were really no different from any of the other extras and bit players who populated the bridge set and wandered the corridors from week to week, except that they were sometimes given a line or two of dialog and were asked back to appear in more episodes than most.

Rather than calling him rude, I'd be more inclined to praise Shatner for bothering to learn their names at all.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sulu had the millionaire speech in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," which I always thought was a really cool speech.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Rude? Maybe if they were his co-stars. But, during TOS, they clearly were not. They were really no different from any of the other extras and bit players who populated the bridge set and wandered the corridors from week to week, except that they were sometimes given a line or two of dialog and were asked back to appear in more episodes than most.

Your post made me think of something else; I don't recall any other co-stars (Mark Lenard, David Warner, Paul Winfield, etc.) ever mentioning any problems working with Shatner. Granted, these people didn't work with him every day, but one would think at least one of them would have mentioned something were Shatner's attitude as bad as Takei and the others claim.

There are a number of actors who've mentioned wanting to do Star Trek at some point in their careers; I don't think that would have been the case were Shatner as difficult to work with as his colleagues claim.

--Sran

 

[Jonas Grumby]

^ Frankly, I'd be surprised if Takei actually had a real problem with Shatner during the filming of TOS. I just don't believe he was some wide-eyed bumpkin fresh off a turnip truck. He knew what his job on the show was.

I suspect it was only years later, after multitudes of fawning convention fans had inflated his ego and convinced him he was much more important to the show than he ever actually was, that he started thinking he wasn't treated with the proper respect.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^That's a good point. I don't remember Takei saying much about Shatner until the subject of Sulu's captaincy of the Excelsior came up; it seemed like Takei got a big head after that, thinking that if his character could have his own ship that he must have been as marketable an actor as Shatner.

--Sran