In any case, you have to appeal to the masses to make the show successful. Networks will simply not continue to air a show with low ratings in this day in age. If Star Trek only caters to the diehards then Star Trek will die.
Baggage you wish Star Trek could be free of?
- Thread starter Autistoid
- Start date
What I'd like to be rid of: The idea that Star Trek is somehow above the 'unwashed masses.'
Can't the people who trot out that line remember a time where they were only just introduced to Trek? Everyone had a period where they didn't care less about Trek, and everyone had their jumping off point that hooked them. Trek was not born with a fanbase. If the series aimed to cater purely to fans from the get-go, there would be a lot less people posting here today.
We also need to get over the idea that this reaction is somehow 'new' for the latest films. I remember a bunch of adults sneering at 12-year-old me on IMDB, purely because I said NEM was the only Trek movie I'd seen at the time. 'Not a true fan! Not real Star Trek! Just a passing fad! Blah blah blah.'
He was also 'never a Boy Scout.' Pick your backstory, or meld them together to make your own!
Can't the people who trot out that line remember a time where they were only just introduced to Trek? Everyone had a period where they didn't care less about Trek, and everyone had their jumping off point that hooked them. Trek was not born with a fanbase. If the series aimed to cater purely to fans from the get-go, there would be a lot less people posting here today.
We also need to get over the idea that this reaction is somehow 'new' for the latest films. I remember a bunch of adults sneering at 12-year-old me on IMDB, purely because I said NEM was the only Trek movie I'd seen at the time. 'Not a true fan! Not real Star Trek! Just a passing fad! Blah blah blah.'
He was also 'never a Boy Scout.' Pick your backstory, or meld them together to make your own!
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Police forces generally have all of this.
The coast guard which is directly the best example have alot of this as well.
Ignoring the fact that nasa is bound to develop a military structure that is easier to reconginize as the scale of missions expands. Typical ranks, or even an academy make no sense until we have a largest number of astronaunts in space.
Starfleet is a mix of exploration, humanitarian, pure science, diplomatic, law enforcement and military.
At no point are any of these traits seen to be secondary.
That's ignoring a larger ark where starfleet seems to take the place of organized labor(unions).
Spot on very much agree with this as the OP.
I think the stack of book with legs left with Vucanians and UESPA.
StarFleet is without a doubt a military force. All militaries throughout history have conducted exploration and humanitarian and diplomatic missions
I think the stack of book with legs left with Vucanians and UESPA.
Both could be equally accurate. Kirk can be a stack of books with legs while IN class, but "never a boy scout" when OUT of class.
I most definitely would not say all militaries do exploration/humanitarian/diplomatic missions (i.e. those militaries resulting from several dictatorships or violent coups over civilian rule), but your point is made.
And what do you two think this thread is about?
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the US military.
Where please?
For me:
Human Exceptionalism: This trope is something Star Trek beats us over the head with. Out of the hundreds of worlds in the UFP, somehow, its the Humans who lead it, and everyone wants to be human, act more human, or adopt human pop culture. Humans are new to the party, when it comes to space travel, hell, even being "enlightened." Yet somehow, humans are to be emulated by Vulcans, Andorians, etc. Every time the Enterprise encounters some super evolved energy being, that being needs to de-evolve, to be more human. I'd like to see humans want to emulate other cultures, for a change. When other cultures have been space faring for hundreds if not thousands of years, it should be the humans who are listening.
Religion: The idea that humans literally become secular over night isn't realistic. Religion is as old as humanity itself, yet somehow, it's shed by the 22nd or 23rd century, and the only religious people left are aliens? There should be Earth religions that are still prominent. I think it would be interesting to see how space travel and aliens affected Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and indigenous cultures across Earth.
Cultural homogeneity: Earth seems to have regions where countries used to be, but seems to be one unified culture. Where are the Asians and east Indians, which make up more than half the population of Earth? Also, alien cultures, like Vulcans, Romulans, and Klingons are too homogenous. Why can't there be subcultures within those cultures. The closest that came to that was the Vulcans of Enterprise.
Time Travel: An over used trope. Simply put, it should be nearly impossible to achieve, but by Voyager, it is established it becomes so common, they actually have a temporal police?
Human Exceptionalism: This trope is something Star Trek beats us over the head with. Out of the hundreds of worlds in the UFP, somehow, its the Humans who lead it, and everyone wants to be human, act more human, or adopt human pop culture. Humans are new to the party, when it comes to space travel, hell, even being "enlightened." Yet somehow, humans are to be emulated by Vulcans, Andorians, etc. Every time the Enterprise encounters some super evolved energy being, that being needs to de-evolve, to be more human. I'd like to see humans want to emulate other cultures, for a change. When other cultures have been space faring for hundreds if not thousands of years, it should be the humans who are listening.
Religion: The idea that humans literally become secular over night isn't realistic. Religion is as old as humanity itself, yet somehow, it's shed by the 22nd or 23rd century, and the only religious people left are aliens? There should be Earth religions that are still prominent. I think it would be interesting to see how space travel and aliens affected Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and indigenous cultures across Earth.
Cultural homogeneity: Earth seems to have regions where countries used to be, but seems to be one unified culture. Where are the Asians and east Indians, which make up more than half the population of Earth? Also, alien cultures, like Vulcans, Romulans, and Klingons are too homogenous. Why can't there be subcultures within those cultures. The closest that came to that was the Vulcans of Enterprise.
Time Travel: An over used trope. Simply put, it should be nearly impossible to achieve, but by Voyager, it is established it becomes so common, they actually have a temporal police?
You are correct, not all, but many have.
Exploration: Lewis and Clark were military, most of the European explorers that sailed the oceans were military.
Diplomatic: Gen MacAuthor ruled Japan after WWII
Humanitarian: The largest humanitarian force in the world right now is the US military
This I agree with. The only religious humans are ones who practice "Native" or "primitive" religion.
TNG was the only Trek series that tried to say humans no longer practiced religion, and even they backtracked on that once Roddenberry was gone. Otherwise, we know human religion does exist well into the 24th century, DS9 indicated Christianity still exists, and we know from Voyager (and TNG, for that matter) that Native Americans still practice their spiritual beliefs. Even in TOS the Enterprise had a chapel on board and in Enterprise Phlox once talked about his fascination with religion and all the various religions he observed being practiced on Earth.
Now, it's true none of the main human characters in any of the series seem to be particularly religious, aside from Chakotay. But I guess that luck of the draw has placed atheists on the senior staffs of the Enterprises, DS9 and Voyager.
I apologize, in canada our coast guard is independent of hte military. Either way you get the idea.And what do you two think this thread is about?
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the US military.
Where please?
Starfleet has alot of military based structure, however it clearly does things typical military do not do.
I don't mind the idea of holodecks, but they should work like they are confined in a small space and have well tested safety protocols.
Transporters I agree make escapes a lot less interesting but they are a big part of Trek aesthetic. I say keep the transporters but require a transporter fixture on both ends. No site to site transporting.
ESP is harmless if kept uncommon. Genetic engineering should have been addressed fully with all its implications and the Federation's enemies should have made better use of it.
I definitely agree, more variety of aliens, more variety of ethnic background among humans, more non-humanoid races. Though some of that is an unavoidable cost issue. I'd rather have human looking aliens than badly done prosthetics.
Transporters I agree make escapes a lot less interesting but they are a big part of Trek aesthetic. I say keep the transporters but require a transporter fixture on both ends. No site to site transporting.
ESP is harmless if kept uncommon. Genetic engineering should have been addressed fully with all its implications and the Federation's enemies should have made better use of it.
I definitely agree, more variety of aliens, more variety of ethnic background among humans, more non-humanoid races. Though some of that is an unavoidable cost issue. I'd rather have human looking aliens than badly done prosthetics.
The only difference between Starfleet and most modern militaries is that Starfleet has a larger science division. And that's more to do with them being in space than it is in indication of how military they are.
Besides, Starfleet has protocol which allow a starship captain the authority to annihilate all life on an inhabited planet. An ability like that would be given to the military before it was given to NASA or an organization similar to the Canadian Coast Guard (which doesn't even have firearms).
I missed that -- what episode was that in?
Episodic story-telling.
I enjoy stories that are rich in continuity and played out over multiple episodes, I like serious consequences and abhor the big red reset button.
Another issue, though one much more rooted in the technical (and commercial) aspect of the franchise, is the human aliens; by which I mean the aliens that are, literally, just humans, with a vaguely defined one-note cultural quirk.
I enjoyed the "rubber-forehead aliens" in the sense that I prefer the idea that the races we meet are similar to us and, culture, rather than biology, is a much bigger source of conflict. So, that's not the problem, it's the over-abundance of aliens that have no distinguishing features whatsoever, that are the problem.
The only way I could imagine liking it is if, as with the Vulcans/Romulans/Mintakans, there were to be an implied recent genetic relationship between such aliens and humans (as in, that they're the result of lost human deep-space expeditions, breakaway colonies, or abducted populations from Earth).
I enjoy stories that are rich in continuity and played out over multiple episodes, I like serious consequences and abhor the big red reset button.
Another issue, though one much more rooted in the technical (and commercial) aspect of the franchise, is the human aliens; by which I mean the aliens that are, literally, just humans, with a vaguely defined one-note cultural quirk.
I enjoyed the "rubber-forehead aliens" in the sense that I prefer the idea that the races we meet are similar to us and, culture, rather than biology, is a much bigger source of conflict. So, that's not the problem, it's the over-abundance of aliens that have no distinguishing features whatsoever, that are the problem.
The only way I could imagine liking it is if, as with the Vulcans/Romulans/Mintakans, there were to be an implied recent genetic relationship between such aliens and humans (as in, that they're the result of lost human deep-space expeditions, breakaway colonies, or abducted populations from Earth).
I forget exactly, it was one in the seventh season where Sisko and Kasidy Yates begin planning their wedding. Sisko asks if she's okay with Admiral Ross marrying them, and she says yes, despite her "Christian mother preferring a minister over a Starfleet admiral."
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