If I had TFF vs. TVH and TMP, I'd have to go with TFF.
Otherwise, I voted for "KHAAAAANNNNN!!!!!"
Otherwise, I voted for "KHAAAAANNNNN!!!!!"
What was your favorite TOS film?
- Thread starter fonzob1
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Why???fonzob1 said:
The first movie IN EVERY SERIES is usually the best
Jumping on this rather late, I have to question that premise. Often the second movie is best, because the filmmakers get a chance to expand and improve on the success of the first one. And may have a better sense of what worked and didn't work in the first movie. And sometimes one of the even later ones is the best. I mean, does anybody really think Dr. No is the very best Bond film? Or that the first Pink Panther movie is the best one? (With Peter Sellers, I mean. Not the remakes with Steve Martin.)
Other examples of sequels that are arguably better than the originals:
The Bride of Frankenstein, Tarzan and His Mate, After the Thin Man, The Wrath of Khan,The Empire Strikes Back, Addams Family Values, X2: X-Men Unlimited, Spider-Man II, The Dark Knight, etc.
And you can probably make a case for The Godfather II and Terminator 2 as well. And maybe even Gremlins 2.
(We'll just forget about the Highlander series, okay? And The Exorcist.)
How about Transformers?
Kor
Why???
The first movie IN EVERY SERIES is usually the best
Jumping on this rather late, I have to question that premise. Often the second movie is best, because the filmmakers get a chance to expand and improve on the success of the first one. And may have a better sense of what worked and didn't work in the first movie. And sometimes one of the even later ones is the best. I mean, does anybody really think Dr. No is the very best Bond film? Or that the first Pink Panther movie is the best one? (With Peter Sellers, I mean. Not the remakes with Steve Martin.)
Other examples of sequels that are arguably better than the originals:
The Bride of Frankenstein, Tarzan and His Mate, After the Thin Man, The Wrath of Khan,The Empire Strikes Back, Addams Family Values, X2: X-Men Unlimited, Spider-Man II, The Dark Knight, etc.
And you can probably make a case for The Godfather II and Terminator 2 as well. And maybe even Gremlins 2.
(We'll just forget about the Highlander series, okay? And The Exorcist.)
How about Transformers?
Kor
I confess: I have never seen a Transformers movie or cartoon.
Nothing personal. It's a generational thing; I was already an adult when when the original toys and cartoons debuted, so they flew beneath my radar. I don't know anything about Transformers, except what I've picked up by osmosis. There's no nostalgic connection there, so I've never gotten around to seeing the movies.
Is the second one better than the first?
Well, they are Michael Bay movies... 
The first Transformers was praised for its entertainment value and pure escapism.
The second one tried to be "bigger and better" but it just ended up being a huge, drawn-out mess.
Roger Ebert gave the first Transformers movie three stars. Then, if I remember right, he gave the sequel one star, and panned it for the exact same things that he liked about the first one!
Kor
The first Transformers was praised for its entertainment value and pure escapism.
The second one tried to be "bigger and better" but it just ended up being a huge, drawn-out mess.
Roger Ebert gave the first Transformers movie three stars. Then, if I remember right, he gave the sequel one star, and panned it for the exact same things that he liked about the first one!
Kor
Well, they are Michael Bay movies...
The first Transformers was praised for its entertainment value and pure escapism.
The second one tried to be "bigger and better" but it just ended up being a huge, drawn-out mess.
Roger Ebert gave the first Transformers movie three stars. Then, if I remember right, he gave the sequel one star, and panned it for the exact same things that he liked about the first one!
Kor
Bar the first one, they have all been drawn out messes. The third one is utterly preposterous and is actually a draining experience...
Yeah, but for every better-than-the-original sequel there are 20 of the worse variety, a la Jaws 2, Porkys 2, Exorcist II: The Heretic, The Sting II, Rocky II, Cars 2, The Fly 2, Teen Wolf Too, Grease 2, Robocop II, Evan Almighty, Quantum of Solace, Staying Alive, Jewel of the Nile, Book Of Shadows: Blair Witch 2, Men in Black II and III, Caddyshack II, etc. etc. etc. etc.The first movie IN EVERY SERIES is usually the best
Jumping on this rather late, I have to question that premise. Often the second movie is best, because the filmmakers get a chance to expand and improve on the success of the first one. And may have a better sense of what worked and didn't work in the first movie. And sometimes one of the even later ones is the best...
Other examples of sequels that are arguably better than the originals:
The Bride of Frankenstein, Tarzan and His Mate, After the Thin Man, The Wrath of Khan,The Empire Strikes Back, Addams Family Values, X2: X-Men Unlimited, Spider-Man II, The Dark Knight, etc...
Yeah, but for every better-than-the-original sequel there are 20 of the worse variety, a la Jaws 2, Porkys 2, Exorcist II: The Heretic, The Sting II, Rocky II, Cars 2, The Fly 2, Teen Wolf Too, Grease 2, Robocop II, Evan Almighty, Quantum of Solace, Staying Alive, Jewel of the Nile, Book Of Shadows: Blair Witch 2, Men in Black II and III, Caddyshack II, etc. etc. etc. etc.The first movie IN EVERY SERIES is usually the best
Jumping on this rather late, I have to question that premise. Often the second movie is best, because the filmmakers get a chance to expand and improve on the success of the first one. And may have a better sense of what worked and didn't work in the first movie. And sometimes one of the even later ones is the best...
Other examples of sequels that are arguably better than the originals:
The Bride of Frankenstein, Tarzan and His Mate, After the Thin Man, The Wrath of Khan,The Empire Strikes Back, Addams Family Values, X2: X-Men Unlimited, Spider-Man II, The Dark Knight, etc...
And those were all theatrical releases too. Oy!
At least Direct to Video (in the history of movies, still a relatively young advent) helps to ablate a lot of horrible movies from hitting the big screen.
Yeah, but for every better-than-the-original sequel there are 20 of the worse variety, a la Jaws 2, Porkys 2, Exorcist II: The Heretic, The Sting II, Rocky II, Cars 2, The Fly 2, Teen Wolf Too, Grease 2, Robocop II, Evan Almighty, Quantum of Solace, Staying Alive, Jewel of the Nile, Book Of Shadows: Blair Witch 2, Men in Black II and III, Caddyshack II, etc. etc. etc. etc.The first movie IN EVERY SERIES is usually the best
Jumping on this rather late, I have to question that premise. Often the second movie is best, because the filmmakers get a chance to expand and improve on the success of the first one. And may have a better sense of what worked and didn't work in the first movie. And sometimes one of the even later ones is the best...
Other examples of sequels that are arguably better than the originals:
The Bride of Frankenstein, Tarzan and His Mate, After the Thin Man, The Wrath of Khan,The Empire Strikes Back, Addams Family Values, X2: X-Men Unlimited, Spider-Man II, The Dark Knight, etc...
True, but the original assertion was that this was the case for "EVERY SERIES"--in all caps,no less!
Just pointing out that wasn't universally so.
Jaws 2 is a decent sequel. The first is clearly an all time classic but the second one is still one hell of a tense movie.
I love all of the Rocky films bar 5. The first two I think are quite similar to each other despite the first one being the 'classic'. I'll be honest I've always got a bigger kick out of 3 & 4, they are dumb, yes, but such good fun.
I think your selections are rare in that they are not only considered better (or in some cases) superior to the original, but some are among the greatest films ever made (The Bride of Frankenstein, The Empire Strikes Back, The Godfather, Part II, etc.), so that is a very rare distinction, sequel or not.
However, a few sequels fall into the "almost there" slot (Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Superman II, etc.), or the "you *&?%^!!--I cannot get back that two hours of my life" category, such as..
- Back to the Future II
- Revenge of the Nerds II
- Damien: The Omen II
- Revenge of the Creature
- Stayin' Alive
- Rock 'N' Roll High School Forever
- Beyond the Poseidon Adventure
- They Call Me Mister Tibbs!
- Batman Returns
- Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
- The Mummy's Hand
Star Trek II--while not one one of the greatest films ever made, was head and shoulders above TMP; it felt like a natural evolution of the characters and sense of adventurous drama of TOS--which should have been the point from the moment ST was slated for the big screen. TMP was a curiosity as a reunion film, but it had no heart. Close to lifeless. Star Trek is not Star Trek without heart.
Rocky 4? Rocky wins the Cold War by carrying 700lb logs on his back, screaming, and beating on another steroid monster uttering such eternal lines as, "You vill lose."
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Rocky IV is my favorite. Entertaining from beginning to end.
Back to the Future II doesn't belong on that list IMO, whilst not a timeless classic like the original, it counters by being huge fun and very clever in parts - the bits where Marty is intertwined with the events of the first movie are genius. It at least belongs in the 'almost there' category.
I'll never get into a deep discussion about the virtues of Rockys 3 & 4, anyone who thinks they're garbage I won't really argue too much, but I don't think they are genuinely bad movies. Batman & Robin, Superman 4 - now they are bad movies.
For a good part of my earlier life I preferred II over the original also, but as I've got older I've swung back to the first. Much like my assessment of the first two Indy movies. I can tell by your signature you're a big Superman II fan. I don't think there's much in it though, they are both excellent, hugely entertaining movies.
I tried watching the first SUPERMAN movie from The Seventies and it's very heavy on camp. Gene Hackman's running out the clock the whole time just kills it, for me. I do love the interview Lois has with Superman, however. There was very much charm and humour in that, it was brilliant, especially how it leads to the "Can You Read My Mind" fly-by. Overtly sentimental, perhaps, but I loved it! The rest of the movie, pretty much rubbish, like its sequel, although ... Ursa, or whatever her name was, turned out to be quite a find! She $aved that movie, without a doubt. Give me SUPERMAN RETURNS, any day, though ...
The Lex Luthor portion of the first Superman movie is a product of its time.
Comics hadn't yet gotten all serious. Retroactively, with comics becoming more "real life", the Hackman portrayal has become maligned or dated, but I still thought he exuded a lot of charm and humor in the role. It's a fun performance, and I think it's unfairly criticized in hindsight.
Personally, I always enjoyed the Metropolis segment. The Krypton and Smallville sequences are pretty timeless though.
Despite the camp of the Metropolis scenes, I found Christopher Reeve timeless as well.
Comics hadn't yet gotten all serious. Retroactively, with comics becoming more "real life", the Hackman portrayal has become maligned or dated, but I still thought he exuded a lot of charm and humor in the role. It's a fun performance, and I think it's unfairly criticized in hindsight.
Personally, I always enjoyed the Metropolis segment. The Krypton and Smallville sequences are pretty timeless though.
Despite the camp of the Metropolis scenes, I found Christopher Reeve timeless as well.
