Some of Captain Kirk's acts of stupidity

[Lance]

TWOK
I don't even have to spell this one out. Raise the goram shields.

...against a fellow Starfleet ship? That very point was addressed by Khan and Joachim moments before, which the screenwriters anticipated would be a question. If you raise shields against a fellow vessel simply because communications cannot be established, then there's something not quite right about Starfleet.

Except Saavik seems to be trying to warn Kirk about a regulation that tells them to do just that.

SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, 'On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...
SPOCK: Lieutenant, the Admiral is well aware of the Regulations.
SAAVIK: Aye sir.

I'm sure Starfleet had seen occasions where their vessels had become compromised and boarded by enemy forces before (heck, we saw it happen to the Enterprise a few times in TOS!), so the regulation is clearly there for a reason. Somewhere in Starfleet's past, a precedent was set that made General Order Twelve necessary. The whole point of the scene is to make Kirk look like a jackass for not following regulations and raising the damn shields, no matter how much he'd like to believe a 'friendly' hasn't been taken over by unknown forces. Nobody's asking him to open fire on the Reliant, but General Order 12 is clearly there for a reason. Kirk ignored it, and paid a price by not raising the shields as a precautionary measure only.

 

[MarsWeeps]

TWOK
I don't even have to spell this one out. Raise the goram shields.

...against a fellow Starfleet ship? That very point was addressed by Khan and Joachim moments before, which the screenwriters anticipated would be a question. If you raise shields against a fellow vessel simply because communications cannot be established, then there's something not quite right about Starfleet.

Not true. Saavik was in the middle of quoting Starfleet regulations which implied some type of defensive action when Spock cut her off:

SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, 'On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...
SPOCK: Lieutenant, the Admiral is well aware of the Regulations.
SAAVIK: Aye sir.

After the Reliant attacked them, Kirk sort of admitted that he screwed up by not listening to Saavik:
SULU: Sir, you did it.
KIRK: I did nothing ...except get caught with my britches down. I must be senile. Mister Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations!

The look Saavik gives him is priceless.

 

[Marsden]

No, this was just an example of horrible writing. Something as complex as a transporter should constantly be doing self-checks before attempting any transport. There is no way that a screwed up "module" would have gone undetected by the electronics itself and allowed a transport attempt. That was a stupid scene, especially when shortly after, they crack jokes about McCoy having his molecules scattered. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I nominated that scene to be one of the worst scenes in the Star Trek movies thread. It's pointless and terrible for no reason other than the very thin one of leaving Kirk without a science officer for Spock to show up an hour (movie time) later and take right over.

 

[Ithekro]

TWOK
I don't even have to spell this one out. Raise the goram shields.

...against a fellow Starfleet ship? That very point was addressed by Khan and Joachim moments before, which the screenwriters anticipated would be a question. If you raise shields against a fellow vessel simply because communications cannot be established, then there's something not quite right about Starfleet.

Except Saavik seems to be trying to warn Kirk about a regulation that tells them to do just that.

SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, 'On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...
SPOCK: Lieutenant, the Admiral is well aware of the Regulations.
SAAVIK: Aye sir.

I'm sure Starfleet had seen occasions where their vessels had become compromised and boarded by enemy forces before (heck, we saw it happen to the Enterprise a few times in TOS!), so the regulation is clearly there for a reason. Somewhere in Starfleet's past, a precedent was set that made General Order Twelve necessary.

Kirk then goes to Yellow Alert. Defense systems activated. Shields not yet raised.

At which point Uhura gets a message from Reliant about their coil emmissions interfering with comunications. Kirk has Spock check, while doing this Khan raised shields and locks phasers on Enterprise. Kirk orders the shields raised, but Khan's order to fire brings the phaser strike into Engineering before the shields can be raised. He is a second too late. Probably because Khan had read Starfleet's books and knew what was needed to get close to Enterprise. As soon as there is an indication that Kirk is suspicious, Reliant sends out a message that delays Kirk form acting for a few more seconds.

Khan knows his enemy. Kirk does is only starting to get suspicious. That is the ship Chekov is XO on after all.

 

[Timo]

Nonsense. His senior officers, especially Spock could have suggested, even insisted on all those things and he did not.

That's Spock's failing, not Kirk's. Kirk recognizes he is losing his strength of will, and his response is to order Spock to bolster it, to protect his public image. Spock agrees.

It's great writing as regards Kirk. Not so great as regards Spock.

Yeah, you're right. Don't even bother trying. Give up. Hate to see a good blanket go to waste.

That's why you would never make a competent paramedic or the like. You don't waste time throwing rubber duckies to people drowning in icy water. That's not "trying", that's fiddling, and doing it just establishes you as unfit to assist the people in need.

(Regarding blankets specifically, the landing party already had those!)

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd570.jpg

Who mentioned turning it into lava?

I did. Lava, red-hot stones, embers, whatever... There'd be great heat, and there'd be great cold, and no zone of survival in between unless some means existed for containing that heat. Just try it out with a bonfire in the middle of the winter (preferably minus 120 degrees of winter!).

Of course, because YOU thought of it.

It's basic survival 101, a textbook case if there ever was one: create a shelter that retains heat. If you have no local materials other than bedrock, then use that... While you can.

TWOK
I don't even have to spell this one out. Raise the goram shields.

Against a fellow starship in distress, this has one downside of some importance: transporters cease to be an option. What if the situation calls for evacuation?

Again, it's not a Kirk failing: every starship skipper always flies into danger with shields down. There's something fundamentally wrong about raising shields, it seems. Power drain? Interference with sensors? Dunno. But it's a Star Trek feature, not a Kirk failing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

...against a fellow Starfleet ship? That very point was addressed by Khan and Joachim moments before, which the screenwriters anticipated would be a question. If you raise shields against a fellow vessel simply because communications cannot be established, then there's something not quite right about Starfleet.

Except Saavik seems to be trying to warn Kirk about a regulation that tells them to do just that.

SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, 'On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...
SPOCK: Lieutenant, the Admiral is well aware of the Regulations.
SAAVIK: Aye sir.

I'm sure Starfleet had seen occasions where their vessels had become compromised and boarded by enemy forces before (heck, we saw it happen to the Enterprise a few times in TOS!), so the regulation is clearly there for a reason. Somewhere in Starfleet's past, a precedent was set that made General Order Twelve necessary.

Kirk then goes to Yellow Alert. Defense systems activated. Sheilds not yet raised.

At which point Uhura gets a message from Reliant about their coil emmissions interfering with comunications. Kirk has Spock check, while doing this Khan raised shields and locks phasers on Enterprise. Kirk orders the shields raised, but Khan's order to fire brings the phaser strike into Engineering before the shields can be raised. He is a second too late. Probably because Khan had read Starfleet's books and knew what was needed to get close to Enterprise. As soon as there is an indication that Kirk is suspicious, Reliant sends out a message that delays Kirk form acting for a few more seconds.

The point is, General Order 12 is clearly a precautionary measure. Saavik begins quoting it before the 'coil emissions' excuse comes through, so the regulation is evidently there because a vessel approaching in such a fashion is already a potential threat. If Kirk had raised the shields and it turned out Reliant was fine after all, then there was nothing lost. But instead, they sit on their hands for a minute too long. Khan gains a tactical advantage not from reading a textbook, but from correctly judging that Kirk is the kind of guy who wouldn't follow the strict letter of General Order 12.


EDIT:

Khan knows his enemy. Kirk does is only starting to get suspicious. That is the ship Chekov is XO on after all.

Well exactly. But this is the thing: by rights, 'coil emissions' or no, 'Chekov' or no, General Order 12 exists for a reason, and Saavik quotes it for a reason. Kirk's folly is in completely ignoring the advice he's being given. What happens next (including the many deaths of which Preston was only one of them) is wholely on his shoulders, because he decided not to follow General Order 12 and raise the shields at the first sign of trouble.

Kirk's stupidity comes from letting his heart rule his head. And Khan completely plays him like a harp because of it.

 

[Timo]

It would help if we knew what GO12 stated.

"On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established..."

"...Keep on hailing"?
"...Maintain safe distance"?
"...Fire warning shots"?
"...Be sure not to make any threatening or surprising moves"?

"Raising shields" is actually the least likely way to complete that phrase, because it never happens in Star Trek. It is sometimes suggested by people like Riker, only to be shot down by their respective Picards; it's clearly not an automatic or strongly recommended response.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Kirk and Spock are attempting to work out why Reliant is not comminucating with them via possible techical problems. Kirk does have a reason to be less suspicous of Reliant than any other ship in the fleet. Chekov is the first officer. Kirk knows Chekov and one would gather from Chekov's prior appearances that Chekov is rather loyal to Kirk. Kirk has little reason to go with General Order 12 as a reaction to events due to this being a known fact. That Chekov is not on Reliant at this time had not crossed anyone's mind.

Why there would even be two starships in the area to pass that close together is I suppose an oddity, when Enterprise is suppose to be the only ship in the quadrant in responce to the garbeled communications from Carol Marcus. That didn't seem to come up. Only Saavik seemed to sound remotely suprised (she also seems to be acting as the XO for Spock on this trip base on her taking the captain's seat while Spock is away. That makes some sense that the XO beamed down with the Admiral later on).

 

[Lance]

It would help if we knew what GO12 stated.

"On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established..."

"...Keep on hailing"?
"...Maintain safe distance"?
"...Fire warning shots"?
"...Be sure not to make any threatening or surprising moves"?

"... get the gally to prepare for an exchange of gourmet pastries?"

I'll admit, it's a shame Spock cut her off when he did, because the tragedy would've been even stronger if we (the audience) were more privy about what exactly General Order 12 actually is.

Kirk and Spock are attempting to work out why Reliant is not comminucating with them via possible techical problems. Kirk does have a reason to be less suspicous of Reliant than any other ship in the fleet. Chekov is the first officer. Kirk knows Chekov and one would gather from Chekov's prior appearances that Chekov is rather loyal to Kirk. Kirk has little reason to go with General Order 12 as a reaction to events due to this being a known fact. That Chekov is not on Reliant at this time had not crossed anyone's mind.

Nevetheless, as Saavik seems to imply that General Order 12 is a precautionary measure that exists for any situation like this, then Kirk's ignoring it is clearly an error.

On the other hand, maybe Kirk doesn't ignore it. If it turned out that GO12 was "On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established, go to Yellow Alert", then the only thing Kirk does not do is follow it straightaway, but instead he hesitates, then does it a moment or two later.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Yeah, you're right. Don't even bother trying. Give up. Hate to see a good blanket go to waste.

That's why you would never make a competent paramedic or the like. You don't waste time throwing rubber duckies to people drowning in icy water. That's not "trying", that's fiddling, and doing it just establishes you as unfit to assist the people in need.

I hope you aren't in a professional position where people's lives are at stake. I'd hate to see the body count that you've racked up. Sort of reminds me of NASA's Linda Ham and the Columbia disaster. When it was suggested that Columbia may have been damaged on lift off, she basically threw up her hands and said, "Oh well, we can't do anything about it anyhow" instead of TRYING something.

(Regarding blankets specifically, the landing party already had those!)

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd570.jpg

So what? 10 blankets will help keep the heat in much better than one or two.

I did. Lava, red-hot stones, embers, whatever... There'd be great heat, and there'd be great cold, and no zone of survival in between unless some means existed for containing that heat. Just try it out with a bonfire in the middle of the winter (preferably minus 120 degrees of winter!).

I used to go backpacking, sometimes in the winter. Sure, it never got to minus 120 degrees but a fire ALWAYS warms you up as opposed to having no fire at all. To suggest otherwise just shows how ignorant you are.

Of course, because YOU thought of it.

It's basic survival 101, a textbook case if there ever was one: create a shelter that retains heat. If you have no local materials other than bedrock, then use that... While you can.

Building a fire is also basic survival 101 but according to you, it's pointless.

 

[Mytran]

Galileo 7. Take care of the emergency first THEN come back and check out the phenomenon.

Again, just Kirk following his orders:

...I have standing orders to investigate all quasars and quasar-like phenomena wherever they may be encountered.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

TWOK
I don't even have to spell this one out. Raise the goram shields.

...against a fellow Starfleet ship? That very point was addressed by Khan and Joachim moments before, which the screenwriters anticipated would be a question. If you raise shields against a fellow vessel simply because communications cannot be established, then there's something not quite right about Starfleet.

Not true. Saavik was in the middle of quoting Starfleet regulations which implied some type of defensive action when Spock cut her off:

SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, 'On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...
SPOCK: Lieutenant, the Admiral is well aware of the Regulations.
SAAVIK: Aye sir.

After the Reliant attacked them, Kirk sort of admitted that he screwed up by not listening to Saavik:
SULU: Sir, you did it.
KIRK: I did nothing ...except get caught with my britches down. I must be senile. Mister Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations!

The look Saavik gives him is priceless.

Spock cutting her off implied it was not necessary, not to simply prevent her from trying to school a senior officer. Kirk was aware of the regulation, but ignoring it seems like it was yet another paper-pusher rule that is rarely used, hence Kirk not raising shields.

 

[Timo]

Did Kirk fail to follow that regulation or not? When the smoke clears, he tells Saavik to keep on quoting the regs, on a rather upbeat note - a sign that those regs actually saved their bacon here? Perhaps Kirk wouldn't have gone to yellow alert without Saavik reminding him, and this would have led to Khan winning?

...I have standing orders to investigate all quasars and quasar-like phenomena wherever they may be encountered.

We could argue that the medical emergency made Kirk take a rare shortcut that took him to within close range of a phenomenon nobody had studied before. This mini-quasar must have been visible to a great distance, and well known to exist, but possibly no other mission would ever have justified sending a ship this far into otherwise "worthless" space.

We know starships are busy little bumblebees: perhaps Kirk would never have gotten a second chance at Murasaki if he failed to make use of the exceptional circumstances of the medical emergency. Oh, some other skipper would have done it eventually. But not Kirk, and that would be reason enough to make good use of the extra hours or days Kirk had available.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[golddragon71]

Kirk's not raising shields to an approaching object to avoid provoking an attack is nothing new

Spock: Captain, We are being scanned...
Kirk: Do not return scans Mr. Spock! It could be misinterpreted as hostility.
Spock: Intruder scans emanating from the exact center of the cloud....Energy of a type...never before encountered.
Uhura: No response to friendship messages sir.
Chekov: Shall I go to Battle Stations sair?
Kirk: Negative. we'll take no provacative action.
Decker: reccommend defensive posture...screens and shields.
Kirk: Nooo Mr. Decker, that could also be misinterpreted as hostility....Cloud composition Mr. Spock.
Spock: Twelfth Power engery field
Sulu: Twelfth Power?!?
Decker: Captain, we've seen what their weapons can do. Shouldn't we take every possible precaution?
Kirk: Mr. Decker....
Spock Captain, I suspect there is an object at the heart of that cloud.
Kirk: Mr. Decker I will not provoke an attack. If that order isn't clear for you, i'll...
Decker: Captain, as your Exec it's my duty....to point out alternatives.
Kirk: Yes it is...I stand corrected.


now of course this is a situation in which Kirk is dealing with an unknown entity rather than a fellow ship of the line however despite the fact that he's dealing with the unknown he's not raising shields because the Cloud in question has been observed attacking any objects that have done things like scanning or raising shields (or firing on it the way those "shoot first and don't bother with questions later" Klingons did.)

however, when Spock proved their claim about the coil emissions interferring with communications was a lie, Kirk should have raised shields.
It's one thing to keep things friendly even without communication but when you get a message the proves they're being evasive and falsifying their reasons... then it's time to put up the guard and say "OK Back it up! NOW!!!!"

 

[Ithekro]

If the exchanges between Khan and Jochim are happening at the same time as Kirk and Spock....Kirk has maybe six to ten seconds between Spock's scanning for coil emissions and Khan opening fire. That whole bit takes only 25 seconds and some of that is FX shots of the ships closing.

 

[FormerLurker]

^The quick cuts between them make it clear that even if they're not simultaneous, they happen on top of one another.

 

[Marsden]

If the exchanges between Khan and Jochim are happening at the same time as Kirk and Spock....Kirk has maybe six to ten seconds between Spock's scanning for coil emissions and Khan opening fire. That whole bit takes only 25 seconds and some of that is FX shots of the ships closing.

^The quick cuts between them make it clear that even if they're not simultaneous, they happen on top of one another.

This brings up a whole new topic, but how long does it take for the shields to go "up" or on.

Kirk does say raise shields, why aren't they up in time? Yes he could have said it 2 seconds sooner, would that have made a difference? Did Sulu have his finger over the button? Maybe it's Sulu's reflexes that are too slow, let's blame him.

In Errand of Mercy, the shields came on and protected the ship from Klingon attack before they even had more than a second to wonder why the shields came on.

 

[ToddPence]

The escape attempt in "By Any Other Name" which got Yeoman Thompson killed. Just what exactly did Kirk think he was going to accomplish?

 

[jksNDNgrl66]

I just watched "Requiem" last night and I am glad I'm not the only one who thought Kirk's behavior was irresponsible. He seemed to totally lose focus of the mission and usually the ship and crew are foremost in his mind. I think maybe it was typical writing of the "hurry up and get this series over with" attitude by the network at that point.

 

[Poltargyst]

Galileo 7. Take care of the emergency first THEN come back and check out the phenomenon.

Again, just Kirk following his orders:

...I have standing orders to investigate all quasars and quasar-like phenomena wherever they may be encountered.

I'm sure whoever gave those standing orders would agree that taking care of the emergency was the higher priority. The quasar wasn't going anywhere.