Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sense

[enterprisecvn65]

Seems like even though Generations isn't always considered the worst film of the original ten. It does seem to be the favorite when it comes to people complaining about the sheer number of things that were stupid and/or just didn't make sense.

So to mix it up let's talk about things in Generations that did make sense and/or weren't stupid.


Well I thought Picard being sad about his family being killed in a fire was a pretty realistic reaction that made a lot of sense.

 

[Lance]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I've always found Soran's motivation believable too.

His desperation to get back into the Nexus is driven by an inability to come to terms with the Borg having killed his family. Guinan basically went through her seven stages of grief and acceptance, but Soran instead became obsessed with getting back into his magical land where he could live with them forevermore. It's a very powerful motivation and one which is quite relatable.

 

[HIjol]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

Kirk's whole "...is there something wrong with your chair?" squirming and being uncomfortable NOT making the decisions on the Bridge made sense, though the way he was dissing Scotty did not. Not between the characters, anyway

Also, the way he jumped in to go try and prepare the deflector dish made sense.

The Reporters antics and quality of questions made me wince and laugh, but I do not know if they made sense.

 

[DonIago]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

It -sort of- makes sense that the E-B would be launched without all systems fully up and running. It wouldn't be the first time a vessel was launched on its maiden voyage as a bit of a PR stunt (note the reporters) and wasn't necessarily equipped to handle surprises that came up along the way.

Obviously they weren't expecting to receive a distress call along the way, much less one that would call for them to, ideally, utilize systems they didn't currently have.

It may even be the case that Captain Harriman was surpervising the ship's construction (or perhaps his superior called in sick that day), and was never intended to command the ship in a serious capacity.

 

[Timo]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

Not sure why Kirk would know the first thing about deflector dishes, but it's not as if he would have anything to lose!

I liked the concept of the Nexus a lot. It's weird and left largely unexplained, but it's pretty relatable in all its oddity. Might be a futuristic transportation system with superb inflight entertainment or something...

Nice use of the political background of Trek - Romulans do Romulan things, Klingons do Klingon things, the Durases are the Durases (or whatever their House name or surname was at that point). Good use of Guinan, too.

Harriman being a pretty decent CO but still falling short of Kirk standards is better than him being totally incompetent in order to make Kirk look good. Anybody would freeze and defer in the presence of such a legend and his tagalong cameras - but Harriman actually does not! Not until it makes sense.

(Also, Harriman is like Pike in very sensibly deciding not to respond to a distress call. It takes guts to do that!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

The Reporters antics and quality of questions made me wince and laugh, but I do not know if they made sense.

I couldn't help but think that the reporters were a giant exaggeration based on stereotypes in movies -- ironically a form of media itself. Kirk was visiting the new Enterprise, but the reporters (particularly that really loud lady in the front) pounced on him like he was the defendant who just stepped out of the courthouse during a high profile murder/prostitution ring case.

Anyway, things they did right:

-updating the bridge. It seemed to be busier and bustling with important tasks, and I really wish this was the bridge we started with in the TV show.

-some may disagree but my eye isn't as finely tuned, but I really love how the Enterprise-D looked on the big screen. Thanks, ILM! It's also pretty spectacular to see a ship you've grown up with make the transition to cinema (only this one and Serenity, right?). For all the lipservice about the TOS refit, we didn't get a TV ship onto a big screen until this movie. (Airplane II doesn't count, folks)

-Kirk conceding the captain's chair to Harriman was the right move and spoke well of Kirk himself. It was the first sign in the movie that he moved on; compare that to Soran's whole plot, which depends on him dwelling on the past. That was a good, subtle move by the writers to start the parallels between the hero and villain, I thought.

-on a side note, seeing Walter Koenig with an actor as prolific as Malcolm McDowell -- even if only for 10 seconds -- was nice to watch

---

Offtopic, but now that I think about it, Kirk fell to his death twice in this movie. I wonder if Spock Prime told nuKirk this, and this is the reason why nuKirk is always hanging off of cliffs and ledges in the JJmovies.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I liked the concept of the Nexus a lot. It's weird and left largely unexplained, but it's pretty relatable in all its oddity. Might be a futuristic transportation system with superb inflight entertainment or something...

Always thought the concept of the nexus and the way Guinen describes it as a 'doorway to another place...a place of bliss etc' was interesting ...could the nexus be a portal to heaven?

as for what worked/I liked, thought the 23rd century opening was good with Kirk saving the Ent (his scenes on the way to the deflector room reminded me of Spocks decent to engineering in Trek II), the sea scene was a nice idea although abit unfunny, Picards grief was well portrayed by Stewart, His meeting with Soran was a great scene 'time is the fire in which we burn' was inspired, the space map room - the way it was revealed Soran was destroying stars (a human 'Star Destroyer') to manipulate the nexus path was very interesting, BOP battle and Ent destruction on the planet was cool with the Ent crash landing on the unchartered planet with the sister planet full of pre warp people (like if a giant flying saucer crashed on our moon)...the sun going nova, then darkness and the ribbon approaching the planet was eerie. Picards Xmas nexus had a Twilight Zone feel to it - that scene of him looking out at the tree and at the exploding star baubles (reminding him the Amargosa star had gone nova and everyone was dead) was very Christmasy but at the same time very eerie, made me wonder what was outside the house...just pitch blackness maybe (like in The Royale)

i think as time goes on Generation resonates more and is is improving with age (at least for me) - Picards grief, the idea of the nexus, Sorans quest, Picards xmas nexus etc

it all seems alot more interesting seeing it now as an adult than seeing it years ago

Offtopic, but now that I think about it, Kirk fell to his death twice in this movie. I wonder if Spock Prime told nuKirk this, and this is the reason why nuKirk is always hanging off of cliffs and ledges in the JJmovies.

that's a good point, Kirk spends a lot of time hanging from stuff in ST09 (the narada end scene he even jumped from one thing to another similar to the Generations bridge jump)...i wondered if that was sort of an intentional foreshadowing of the way he died in Generations? (and the way he almost did at the start of Trek V where after he prophesized his death).... also spocks line of 'you of all people should know - a captain cannot cheat death' (yeah i know he meant his father but it also applies to Prime James Kirks demise)

 

[SchwEnt]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I don't know if it makes sense but they certainly got the Generations idea right.

There are the two crews, TOS and TNG. Two generations of starship crews.

We see the launch of the Enterprise-B, then the old sailing vessel Enterprise, then the Enterprise-D. Multiple generations of Enterprises.

We meet Demora Sulu, the next generation in Hikaru's family.

We hear of the loss of Picard's nephew, the next generation of Picards, and ponder the future of no more Picards in the family line. And we also get a bit of history and painting of previous generations of Picards.

In many ways, the movie really lives up to its name Generations. They got that right.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I don't know if it makes sense but they certainly got the Generations idea right.

There are the two crews, TOS and TNG. Two generations of starship crews.

We see the launch of the Enterprise-B, then the old sailing vessel Enterprise, then the Enterprise-D. Multiple generations of Enterprises.

We meet Demora Sulu, the next generation in Hikaru's family.

We hear of the loss of Picard's nephew, the next generation of Picards, and ponder the future of no more Picards in the family line. And we also get a bit of history and painting of previous generations of Picards.

In many ways, the movie really lives up to its name Generations. They got that right.

I think it was also a good idea to not only get the one recurring character who had been established to live through generations (Guinan) but to make the big bad of the same race as well as a counterpart.

"Time is the fire in which we burn." is also a great line, though I know it came from Delmore Schwartz. Still, it's a pretty clever way to incorporate that line into the movie.

 

[HarryM]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I also thought the Ent-D looked great on the big screen. Since it has such a wide primary hull it worked for widescreen. Same with the bridge interior. Somebody just wanted to have a "kewl" new ship so blow up the old one.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

.... I liked the concept of the Nexus a lot. It's weird and left largely unexplained, but it's pretty relatable in all its oddity. Might be a futuristic transportation system with superb inflight entertainment or something...
Timo Saloniemi

I REALLY like that idea, Timo! The Nexus not being a natural phenomenon, but perhaps a very sophisticated technology/artifact from an ancient, forgotten race that is rolling around the galaxy long after that civilization is gone. A technology so advanced that it is not recognized as technology by the Federation. A cross between DS9's wormhole and the Doomsday Machine. The races we see in TNG simply do not know how to use it properly to get to Point B, so anyone entering it is simply 'trapped in the elevator with the doors closed', not knowing how to punch the button to go up a floor!

I also thought the Ent-D looked great on the big screen. Since it has such a wide primary hull it worked for widescreen. Same with the bridge interior. Somebody just wanted to have a "kewl" new ship so blow up the old one.

I, too, am sorry that we only got to see the D in one movie, but my understanding is that TPTB wrecked her because the interior sets designed for TV broadcasts were showing wear & tear (and also 'economical' cut corners from the original construction) that did not look good on the big screen. That is why interior shots were all so dimly lit. I guess they could have rebuilt all the D sets for the next movie, but I guess someone(s) decided a new ship would be a kewler solution to the problem.

 

[BK613]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

We meet Demora Sulu, the next generation in Hikaru's family.

Thought she was credible character and wish we had a way to see more of her.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I thought Kirk's "Risk is part of the game if you want to sit in that chair" was well done. He was correct of course and he said it in a way of a wise man who had decades of experience and was teaching Harriman, not in some cocky ahole way like "If you don't have the balls then move aside for someone who does, sprinkles are for winners"

 

[Vger23]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

Not sure why Kirk would know the first thing about deflector dishes, but it's not as if he would have anything to lose!

I liked the concept of the Nexus a lot. It's weird and left largely unexplained, but it's pretty relatable in all its oddity. Might be a futuristic transportation system with superb inflight entertainment or something...

Nice use of the political background of Trek - Romulans do Romulan things, Klingons do Klingon things, the Durases are the Durases (or whatever their House name or surname was at that point). Good use of Guinan, too.

Harriman being a pretty decent CO but still falling short of Kirk standards is better than him being totally incompetent in order to make Kirk look good. Anybody would freeze and defer in the presence of such a legend and his tagalong cameras - but Harriman actually does not! Not until it makes sense.

(Also, Harriman is like Pike in very sensibly deciding not to respond to a distress call. It takes guts to do that!)

Timo Saloniemi

I've seen a lot of contrarian opinions about Star Trek in my years, but never have I seen anyone state that "Harriman was a pretty decent CO."

 

[Vger23]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I thought Stellar Cartography was excellent. I thought the TOS-style interfaces on the Armagosa Obsevatory were cool. I like them (finally) showing the BOP to scale against a Galaxy-class ship was good...usually they look much bigger. The BOP destruction was also well-done.

 

[Smellmet]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I thought Stellar Cartography was excellent. I thought the TOS-style interfaces on the Armagosa Obsevatory were cool. I like them (finally) showing the BOP to scale against a Galaxy-class ship was good...usually they look much bigger. The BOP destruction was also well-done.

Stellar Cartography was one of the best scenes in the movie, especially at the cinema, I think it holds up very well today too, as do most of the visuals in Generations. The BoP destruction was just re-used footage from TUC though, and for me is the only weak link in the FX.

 

[DonIago]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

The BoP destruction was a horrible re-use and took me out of the film.

But yes, Stellar Cartography was amazing. Not just a cool visual, but a great use of "show, don't tell".

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I feel like the Stellar Cartography scene was probably the most visually complex/sfx scene in a starship in all the TNG movies. Which is pretty sad considering it's the first TNG movie. It's almost as if the Enterprise-D was upgraded with all this fancy tech to take advantage of the cinematic format, but the Enterprise-E was a step down in that regard.

With that said, I like that it's, in a way, a precursor to X-Men movies' version of Cerebro. My only concern is that it (and Cerebro) look like they need more guard rails, especially for those susceptible to vertigo.

One thing about Soran's plan, as revealed during the Stellar Cartography scene, though: Soran blows up stars to change the Nexus' course, so that it comes to him. Okay, fine. Picard asks why not just fly in there with a starship, to which Data replies that every ship it ever encountered had been heavily damaged or destroyed. Except Soran got to the Nexus by ship in the first place.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

If I'm gonna talk about what made sense, or what I liked, I gotta say the music was absolutely gorgeous. Dennis McCarthy outdid himself here, giving us a wonderfully dreamy score. Such a beautiful composition, I was sad to hear to many people didn't care for it. Easily the high point of the film for me and the score that brought large scoring back to Star Trek.

 

[Vger23]

Re: Change of pace lets talk about things in Generations that made sen

I thought Stellar Cartography was excellent. I thought the TOS-style interfaces on the Armagosa Obsevatory were cool. I like them (finally) showing the BOP to scale against a Galaxy-class ship was good...usually they look much bigger. The BOP destruction was also well-done.

Stellar Cartography was one of the best scenes in the movie, especially at the cinema, I think it holds up very well today too, as do most of the visuals in Generations. The BoP destruction was just re-used footage from TUC though, and for me is the only weak link in the FX.

I actually meant the internal shots of the explosions and decompression.

Besides, if Star Trek II could re-use a huge number of shots from TMP, I'm willing to let a couple of shots slide in GEN.