Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[USS Pertinax]

There, despite being semi-justified in their beliefs, the movies never seemed to portray normal humans in the right at all.

So basically staying with the source material.

Besides the U.S. government in the The Last Stand seemed to have a sensible position of leave the non threatening mutants alone and just go after the criminal mutants.

The MCU movies aren't afraid of having their Protagonists be in the wrong or have their antagonists have a point, which would be a very welcoming change in the X-Men movies..

Wasn't Fassbender Magneto a protagonist or almost a protagonist?

 

[Anwar]

The MCU movies aren't afraid of having their Protagonists be in the wrong or have their antagonists have a point, which would be a very welcoming change in the X-Men movies..

When the hell have any of the MCU protagonists been wrong about some thing?

Iron Man 2, Tony acting like it's all a bunch of nonsense that the Government want access to his Iron Man tech. They had a point over the whole thing (yes, the Senator was a HYDRA Operative but still).

Avengers, the whole team getting upset at SHIELD for creating Tesseract based weapons when again it makes sense they'd try to do something like that.

Thor...well, I think this is self-explanatory.

Yeah, compared to the X-Films where there isn't much in the way of nuance or internal conflict I wouldn't mind more of the MCU's approach to the whole thing.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The MCU movies aren't afraid of having their Protagonists be in the wrong or have their antagonists have a point, which would be a very welcoming change in the X-Men movies..

When the hell have any of the MCU protagonists been wrong about some thing?

Iron Man 2, Tony acting like it's all a bunch of nonsense that the Government want access to his Iron Man tech. They had a point over the whole thing (yes, the Senator was a HYDRA Operative but still).

So not wrong, considering Hydra tried to use Stark tech to take over the world.

Avengers, the whole team getting upset at SHIELD for creating Tesseract based weapons when again it makes sense they'd try to do something like that.

Which SHIELD can't do anymore because Thor took the Tesseract at the end, and SHIELD infiltration by HYDRA pretty much means yeah they were right to be upset about it.

Thor...well, I think this is self-explanatory.

So character development arc makes him wrong about something?

Yeah, compared to the X-Films where there isn't much in the way of nuance or internal conflict I wouldn't mind more of the MCU's approach to the whole thing.

Still not seeing much of a difference between the two on that end.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Regarding Inhumans with powers vs non-Inhumans with powers; it's entirely possible that all the "gifted" that SHIELD already knew about are actually Inhumans who had their change triggered (accidentally or otherwise) by means other than the terrigen mists. Like for example, perhaps Erskine's formula was based (knowingly or otherwise) on samples taken from the GH corpse and/or a crystal from one of the diviners?

It's also possible that they're not of Inhuman ancestry at all and what is being triggered is something much older and seemingly innate to humans as a species. Remember again that the Kree tried this on many other worlds and it *only* worked here. Not only that but it worked too well. Like off the charts, potentially the Inhuman equivalent of omega level mutants. So powerful their Kree masters could barely contain them, much less control them.

There may be some tampering even further back in our history. Celestials perhaps? Something to do with our place in Yggdrasil?

I wonder what the explanation for MCU Daredevil's superhuman abilities will be. Guess we'll be finding out soon.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Appears to be toxic waste falling from a truck when Matt was pushing a man out of the way so he wouldn't be hit. That's based on the trailers.

 

[Anwar]

So not wrong, considering Hydra tried to use Stark tech to take over the world.

But the argument the Senator used was correct.

Which SHIELD can't do anymore because Thor took the Tesseract at the end, and SHIELD infiltration by HYDRA pretty much means yeah they were right to be upset about it.

But the basic argument they used wasn't wrong.

So character development arc makes him wrong about something?

Yes. It's him realizing he was wrong in how he was acting before and wrong in his past actions that got him into that mess to begin with.

Still not seeing much of a difference between the two on that end.

Guys like Senator Kelly and Dr Trask aren't wrong in their views and their fears, but instead of pointing this out the story just ignores it. And no one points out how Xavier's approach to things isn't really helping matters because he just cloisters the students up in a fancy house and does litle to change things (instead just reacting to others) and has no problem tampering with innocent peoples' minds.

 

[Reverend]

Appears to be toxic waste falling from a truck when Matt was pushing a man out of the way so he wouldn't be hit. That's based on the trailers.

Hasn't that always been the case? I'm honestly not well versed in the comics, so I don't know if there's a more nuanced version. I mean, "toxic waste" seems a bit vague for something that can imbue super-powers. Or am I perhaps reading it wrong? Was Murdock always a "gifted" person and being blinded simply brought his heighten senses to the forefront?

Come to think of it, in the comics is Murdock classified as a mutant or is he strictly of the "product of science" category like Banner, Parker, Rogers etc.?

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

Yes, that's his comic origin.

Murdock, Banner, Rogers, and others who have powers that they gained through non-mutant, non-magical means are called mutates.

 

[bbjeg]

^Who are generally accepted, as opposed to those horrible mutants.

The more I think of it and the more it's discussed, I'm becoming more and more OK with X-Men and the MCU being separate. Yeah, I would like to see Wolverine fighting along side with the Avengers, but the two properties have lots of stories to tell, and whatever they miss, they can retell in a reboot. Honestly, I'm just glad Marvel is on the big screen. It makes all those comics I read as a kid seem not as much a waste.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Appears to be toxic waste falling from a truck when Matt was pushing a man out of the way so he wouldn't be hit. That's based on the trailers.

Hasn't that always been the case? I'm honestly not well versed in the comics, so I don't know if there's a more nuanced version. I mean, "toxic waste" seems a bit vague for something that can imbue super-powers. Or am I perhaps reading it wrong? Was Murdock always a "gifted" person and being blinded simply brought his heighten senses to the forefront?

Come to think of it, in the comics is Murdock classified as a mutant or is he strictly of the "product of science" category like Banner, Parker, Rogers etc.?

It's the comic origin. He's strictly a "product of science" origin - although an accidental one like Peter Parker.

The only change from the comics apparent from the photos is that Rand Industries is apparently the company that made it this time. Rand Industries, of course, would be owned by the father of Danny Rand (the Immortal Iron Fist).

 

[theenglish]

^Who are generally accepted, as opposed to those horrible mutants.

This reminds me of something I've always wondered. How does the government, let alone the general public, know the difference between a super-human and somebody with powers.

I suppose the Sentinels track down mutant DNA or something?

But what about your average Joe or Jane. Imagine the dialogue:

"Look out it's one of those horrible mutants!"

"No, I got my powers when I was bitten by a radioactive spider!"

"Oh that's all right then--go Spidey!"

Then all Xavier would need to do is make up silly origin stories for all his students.

 

[bbjeg]

^It's odd that no mutant thought of that before. I want to say it's the Avengers club-card that makes them welcome but Beast and Wolverine have one and they're still feared along with the rest of the mutants.

 

[Anwar]

Like I said, in the movies they're more accepted because of how few superbeings there actually are and how most are just humans anyways. With mutants, there's millions of them and...well, the fear they get is somewhat justified.

In the comics, Spider-Man, Hulk and Daredevil are feared. Cap has the Government backing him, the Fantastic Four have Reed Richards' pre-existing scientific fame protecting them, etc.

Of course, the X-Men comics themselves are inconsistent on this. For a while in the 80s the mutant hatred vanished and the X-Men were seen as regular heroes by everyone.

 

[bbjeg]

^That generally waned away (generally after some mutant ruins it for the rest of them). That's what the beginning of Astonishing X-Men was getting at. They weren't really hated and they wished to astonish people back into believing they were heroes again.

 

[theenglish]

^It's odd that no mutant thought of that before. I want to say it's the Avengers club-card that makes them welcome but Beast and Wolverine have one and they're still feared along with the rest of the mutants.

"I was bitten by a radioactive wolverine in the Canadian wilderness, bub, gotta problem with that?"

 

[Marsden]

This may not add to the specific line, but the same accident that gave DareDevil his powers also created the Mutant Ninja Turtles. Really.

Which according to the above would make them the Teenage Mutate Ninja Turtles.

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

 

[Vendikarr]

This may not add to the specific line, but the same accident that gave DareDevil his powers also created the Mutant Ninja Turtles. Really.

Which according to the above would make them the Teenage Mutate Ninja Turtles.

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

Somebody heard it wrong and it stuck.

 

[Reverend]

^That generally waned away (generally after some mutant ruins it for the rest of them). That's what the beginning of Astonishing X-Men was getting at. They weren't really hated and they wished to astonish people back into believing they were heroes again.

Well half the point of the X-Men comics is that they're feared and persecuted by half the people they're trying to protect. If they ever actually achieve mutant-human harmony then the story is over really. Without that it's just a generic superhero team.

It's partly why I tend to agree that X-Men as an IP works best separate from main Marvel universe.

 

[Anwar]

Well, the movies can have an end point to it all because they're movies and not a serial comic. So that still doesn't mean the X-Men story doesn't fit the MCU.

 

[bbjeg]

^ The thing is they don't have to or even need to.