He had Jetrel and Mortal Coil as far as I'm concerned. This whole thread made me realize that I actually find Neelix one of the more colorful characters of Voyager. Then again even Chakotay had "Nemesis"
Worst characters in each series
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He had Jetrel and Mortal Coil as far as I'm concerned. This whole thread made me realize that I actually find Neelix one of the more colorful characters of Voyager. Then again even Chakotay had "Nemesis"
They just wanted Kes to be like a space butterfly whose lifespan was fleeting by human standards.
I understood the intent. But the intent and the way it plays are two distinct things.
I agree that they didn't play it well.
Everything!I never understood the Neelix hatred, what's wrong with good ol' Neelix?
...
1) He's annoying, in a stupid uninteresting way.
2) He's incompetent, any time he boasts about a pretend skill, you can be sure he's terrible at it: horrible cook, his so called survival skills cause two people to die in Basics. He poisons the ship with cheese once, another time he disturbs the warp field by getting flees into the ship as well.
3) He's unreliable, cowardly, unfunny...etc.
Sure, he's had his annoying moments.
But he did pretty good trying to keep the crew's morale up. He seemed pretty useful to the crew.
Nobody felt anything when after all those years he left the ship to live with that Talaxian colony?
The one creepy thing about him, though, is the relationship he had with Kes, and even then I only realized that when others pointed out how creepy it was.
And even then, the way Kes dumped him was kind of crappy.
How does Mr. "Emergency Command Hologram" get a pass, and Neelix doesn't?
Everything!I never understood the Neelix hatred, what's wrong with good ol' Neelix?
...
1) He's annoying, in a stupid uninteresting way.
2) He's incompetent, any time he boasts about a pretend skill, you can be sure he's terrible at it: horrible cook, his so called survival skills cause two people to die in Basics. He poisons the ship with cheese once, another time he disturbs the warp field by getting flees into the ship as well.
3) He's unreliable, cowardly, unfunny...etc.
Sure, he's had his annoying moments.
But he did pretty good trying to keep the crew's morale up. He seemed pretty useful to the crew.
Nobody felt anything when after all those years he left the ship to live with that Talaxian colony?
The one creepy thing about him, though, is the relationship he had with Kes, and even then I only realized that when others pointed out how creepy it was.
And even then, the way Kes dumped him was kind of crappy.
How does Mr. "Emergency Command Hologram" get a pass, and Neelix doesn't?
I am sorry. What pass does he get that the other one doesn't? Plus the doctor is invaluable to the ship, without him the whole crew would have died several times over, the giant viruses, the pitcher plant, the getting through a deadly nebula...etc. None of these would have been defeated without him. All Neelix is good at is talk endlessly about stupid things and poison the crew once in a while.
The EMH talks endlessly about stupid things as well.
I'm sure Kes could have been able to handle the sickbay by herself. She's an elf, they can do things.
I'm sure Kes could have been able to handle the sickbay by herself. She's an elf, they can do things.
The Doctor is no where near the worse character in Trek. In fact, the first 3 seasons, the Doctor was a pretty good character.
But the seasons 4-7, "Photons be Free!", singer, writer, author, daydreamer, commander, have crush on Seven, Doctor?
Doesn't that seem over the top?
I mean, I always wondered, how does Neelix gets so much fan hate in polls, and yet the Doctor (4-7) has been able to escape?
Among other things.
But the seasons 4-7, "Photons be Free!", singer, writer, author, daydreamer, commander, have crush on Seven, Doctor?
Doesn't that seem over the top?
Exactly, and it was not a crush on Seven, it was straight out creepin' on Seven. It might have been intended as some kind of homage to Phygmalion, but to me it seemed as creepy, if not more than the Nelix/Kes thing (not that the EMH wasn't creepin' on Kes as well once in a while).
Let alone that his writing/author skills were at the level of bad fan-fiction and his "daydreams" were just creepy power fantasies.
The EMH and Neelix, to me, are just two sides of the same coin and of the two I find bumbling Neelix far, far less grating.
And it would have been okay t have the EMH's writing be awful,wish-fulfillment fan-fiction IF everybody in universe had treated it that way. However it was published and became a success (apparently enjoyed unironically).
Either the standards of literature in the Federation are sub-zero or the writers just forced yet another "admirable talent" on an already over-the-top character.
But the seasons 4-7, "Photons be Free!", singer, writer, author, daydreamer, commander, have crush on Seven, Doctor?
Doesn't that seem over the top?
Exactly, and it was not a crush on Seven, it was straight out creepin' on Seven. It might have been intended as some kind of homage to Phygmalion, but to me it seemed as creepy, if not more than the Nelix/Kes thing (not that the EMH wasn't creepin' on Kes as well once in a while).
Let alone that his writing/author skills were at the level of bad fan-fiction and his "daydreams" were just creepy power fantasies.
The EMH and Neelix, to me, are just two sides of the same coin and of the two I find bumbling Neelix far, far less grating.
And it would have been okay t have the EMH's writing be awful,wish-fulfillment fan-fiction IF everybody in universe had treated it that way. However it was published and became a success (apparently enjoyed unironically).
Either the standards of literature in the Federation are sub-zero or the writers just forced yet another "admirable talent" on an already over-the-top character.
How about when Kim was "creepin'" on Seven?
KES for "Voyager," hands down.
Sure, Neelix was annoying, Icheb was boring, and Harry and Chakotay were ignored by the writers and often badly acted. But no character is perfect.
Correction, no character is supposed to be perfect. Whoever wrote up the character of Kes, however, disagrees.
Kes is beautiful. (So much so that Tom and Neelix fight over her, and the Doctor crushes on her.) She's smart. She's got a superhuman memory. She's kind. She's wise. She has extraordinary powers that randomly save the day, and astound everyone, even earning the respect of villains. She's strong and determined. Her only character flaw? "I'm too curious." This might be forgivable, if her curiosity had ever had actual consequences for her. In "Fury" and "Cold Fire" it did, and those were the only times Kes came close to being interesting. Otherwise....ladies and gentleman, Bella Swan is now on a starship.
The real tragedy here is that with Kes's backstory, she could have been a really cool character. Kes grew up sheltered; she has potentially dangerous powers she wants to explore; and she's an alien. She should not have been perfect; she should have been naive, clumsy, rash, and not a bit eccentric. Her curiosity and kindness should have been her fault as much as her strength, having it get herself and the crew in danger. (For instance, she might bring home a deadly animal because she thought it was cute and wanted to help it.) She should have had odd tendencies that put human men off. Have her eat bugs all the time, not just when she's in her Elogium. Have her date Neelix because she honestly thinks Talaxian men are hot, not just because of his "inner beauty." Treat Tom's crush on Kes as a weird thing, that baffles Harry and even Tom himself, because Kes is such a weirdo but Tom likes her anyway. And have her powers gradually lure her to the Dark Side, having her teeter on becoming a full-time villain.
Never mind Harry or Chakotay, I say it was Kes who suffered the most mis-writing.
Characters from other series who were awful.... Rom from "Deep Space Nine" (mostly it's his voice I can't stand), and obviously Wesley.
Sure, Neelix was annoying, Icheb was boring, and Harry and Chakotay were ignored by the writers and often badly acted. But no character is perfect.
Correction, no character is supposed to be perfect. Whoever wrote up the character of Kes, however, disagrees.
Kes is beautiful. (So much so that Tom and Neelix fight over her, and the Doctor crushes on her.) She's smart. She's got a superhuman memory. She's kind. She's wise. She has extraordinary powers that randomly save the day, and astound everyone, even earning the respect of villains. She's strong and determined. Her only character flaw? "I'm too curious." This might be forgivable, if her curiosity had ever had actual consequences for her. In "Fury" and "Cold Fire" it did, and those were the only times Kes came close to being interesting. Otherwise....ladies and gentleman, Bella Swan is now on a starship.
The real tragedy here is that with Kes's backstory, she could have been a really cool character. Kes grew up sheltered; she has potentially dangerous powers she wants to explore; and she's an alien. She should not have been perfect; she should have been naive, clumsy, rash, and not a bit eccentric. Her curiosity and kindness should have been her fault as much as her strength, having it get herself and the crew in danger. (For instance, she might bring home a deadly animal because she thought it was cute and wanted to help it.) She should have had odd tendencies that put human men off. Have her eat bugs all the time, not just when she's in her Elogium. Have her date Neelix because she honestly thinks Talaxian men are hot, not just because of his "inner beauty." Treat Tom's crush on Kes as a weird thing, that baffles Harry and even Tom himself, because Kes is such a weirdo but Tom likes her anyway. And have her powers gradually lure her to the Dark Side, having her teeter on becoming a full-time villain.
Never mind Harry or Chakotay, I say it was Kes who suffered the most mis-writing.
Characters from other series who were awful.... Rom from "Deep Space Nine" (mostly it's his voice I can't stand), and obviously Wesley.
Nice to see that someone appreciates Kes. I like her, too. But I know people who find her boring and bland and prefer "Seven for Sex" 
Kes, on the other hand, is almost gone from the Litverse, whereas Seven gets the opportunity to grow, thanks to a great Kirsten Beyer.
Where are the Wesley haters???????
Kes, on the other hand, is almost gone from the Litverse, whereas Seven gets the opportunity to grow, thanks to a great Kirsten Beyer.
Where are the Wesley haters???????
I love Kes! Half of the reason I dislike Harry Kim so much is that he was supposed to go and was saved by that stupid magazine article calling his pudgy baby-face "beautiful" and so Kes was booted. The other half is made up by him having the personality of wallpaper and grinning stupidly.
Kes had HEAPS of potential that was simply wasted and personally I think she and Seven could have had an interesting character dynamic, they might have developed a sort of sister-like relationship with each other and Kes would have been all over helping Seven regain her humanity.
But as she was, especially by season 3 she was just a potentially interesting character who was ignored and wasted because she was "hard" to write, just like Troi on TNG.
Kes had HEAPS of potential that was simply wasted and personally I think she and Seven could have had an interesting character dynamic, they might have developed a sort of sister-like relationship with each other and Kes would have been all over helping Seven regain her humanity.
But as she was, especially by season 3 she was just a potentially interesting character who was ignored and wasted because she was "hard" to write, just like Troi on TNG.
Nice to see that someone appreciates Kes. I like her, too. But I know people who find her boring and bland and prefer "Seven for Sex"
Kes, on the other hand, is almost gone from the Litverse, whereas Seven gets the opportunity to grow, thanks to a great Kirsten Beyer.
Where are the Wesley haters???????
I am sorry but IMO Kes was boring, even when she came back as the evil one, she was still boring, just evil boring...
^This. And what's with that incredibly annoying scream she had? Like some crazy electronic noise of some sort - ridiculous. And beautiful? No. Everyone has their own opinion and mine's that she was significantly below average in that regard.
Good riddance to this character...
She was boring because the writers once again created a psionic character (like Troi) then decided "writing psionic characters is hard, man!" (just like with Troi) and shoved her in the background (just like Troi in the early seasons of TNG) unlike Troi Kes never again stepped into the foreground and was instead dropped.
Heck, in season 3 she even looked like blonde!Troi with her big, curly hair and her wardrobe consisting of a red jumpsuit, a blue jumpsuit (okay, Troi had a purple one) and a turquoise dress.
Heck, in season 3 she even looked like blonde!Troi with her big, curly hair and her wardrobe consisting of a red jumpsuit, a blue jumpsuit (okay, Troi had a purple one) and a turquoise dress.
