"Agent Carter" season one discussion and spoilers

[theenglish]

I just caught the final episode. I was actually disappointed a little, but in a good way if that makes sense. I guess I wanted something a little more spectacular, but I really liked the more intimate ending that we got. It was really driven by character as much as plot and everyone got a little moment. Wonderful show, and I can't wait to see a new season.

SHIELD is going to have to return BIG if it wants to live up to the standards of Agent Carter.

 

[theenglish]

Natasha Romanoff was around in WWII in the comics--it would be interesting seeing even a reference to her in the series.

 

[Christopher]

Natasha Romanoff was around in WWII in the comics--it would be interesting seeing even a reference to her in the series.

I would much prefer it if the show didn't do that, instead relying on Dottie as their Black Widow. The only reason the comics make so many characters incredibly old is because they've been around for decades without restarting their continuity, so characters who had believable ages when they were introduced in the 1960s now have to be retconned as immortal or given life-extending treatments or whatever. (The first such retcon being Captain America himself. In postwar comics, Cap and Bucky just became stateside crimefighters and commie-busters, but then Lee and Kirby invented the whole "frozen in ice" backstory when they brought Cap back in the '60s, and the postwar and '50s Cap and Bucky were retconned as impersonators.) An adaptation like this is brand-new and able to free itself of the baggage of the comics. It's able to build a less convoluted, more streamlined continuity, and that's an asset.

And yes, the movies have said that Natasha worked for the KGB, which wouldn't work unless she'd been recruited as a child or else was considerably older than she looked. I've heard that argument. But we've just seen that the Red Room subjects were recruited as children, so that may be the explanation.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Romanov was a child in Uncanny X-Men 268.

Marvel claims that Natasha and Scarlet share a birthday: November 22, 1984, even though Natasha claims to have worked for the KGB which shut it's doors in November 1991, which means that they were employing a tiny child to do something sketchy.

 

[Shawnster]

Howard sure does have a nice collection of war surplus fighters - fully equipped with their guns and ammo - all fueled up, armed and ready to go.

I was trying to identify the planes, both in Stark's hanger and the hanger they drove to earlier in the episode. We have he obligatory P51 and a Corsair, what were the others?

 

[DWF]

were[/I] recruited as children, so that may be the explanation.

In The Avengers, Natasha told Banner that she was a kid when stated being a spy.

 

[Reverend]

Romanov was a child in Uncanny X-Men 268.

Marvel claims that Natasha and Scarlet share a birthday: November 22, 1984, even though Natasha claims to have worked for the KGB which shut it's doors in November 1991, which means that they were employing a tiny child to do something sketchy.

Marvel's sliding timescale has created a number of oddities. Probably partly why they're going the DC route of some universe smashing reboot to set everything back to zero. That said, isn't that pretty much the point of the Ultimate books?

Personally, I'd be interesting to see them make a universe where the timeline didn't slide and you have a modern day Cap who's been unfrozen since the 60's (and still barely showing his age) an old retired Spidey etc. and several generations of legacy heroes that have taken the place of their older counterparts. I gather that was (is?) a Spider-Girl book that took sort of that tac, but I'd like to see that applied universe-wide and give a much broader sense of collective history.

Pretty much how Dredd has aged in real time since his first book was published and over the years you've seen other judges come up from rookies (or babies in the case of Beany and some of the other Fargo clones) all the way up to veteran street Judges and in the case of Hershey, even a Chief Judge.

 

[Gaith]

The Natasha-in-WW2 topic has been hashed over fairly recently in the AoS S2 thread. Short version: Christopher's right; it's a terrible idea.

 

[theenglish]

Romanov was a child in Uncanny X-Men 268.

Marvel claims that Natasha and Scarlet share a birthday: November 22, 1984, even though Natasha claims to have worked for the KGB which shut it's doors in November 1991, which means that they were employing a tiny child to do something sketchy.

Marvel's sliding timescale has created a number of oddities. Probably partly why they're going the DC route of some universe smashing reboot to set everything back to zero. That said, isn't that pretty much the point of the Ultimate books?

Personally, I'd be interesting to see them make a universe where the timeline didn't slide and you have a modern day Cap who's been unfrozen since the 60's (and still barely showing his age) an old retired Spidey etc. and several generations of legacy heroes that have taken the place of their older counterparts. I gather that was (is?) a Spider-Girl book that took sort of that tac, but I'd like to see that applied universe-wide and give a much broader sense of collective history.

Pretty much how Dredd has aged in real time since his first book was published and over the years you've seen other judges come up from rookies (or babies in the case of Beany and some of the other Fargo clones) all the way up to veteran street Judges and in the case of Hershey, even a Chief Judge.

Yeah, there is a whole alternate reality group of books that star legacy heroes including May Parker, the daughter of Spider-Man. Of course, those heroes would be getting on by now too.

But Marvel does try to follow a rough 5 Years real time is 1 Year comic time guide though. Spider-Man has been swinging for about ten to twelve years in the 616 universe, for example. The age of the Richards kids seems to follow this as well.

 

[Forbin]

Howard sure does have a nice collection of war surplus fighters - fully equipped with their guns and ammo - all fueled up, armed and ready to go.

I was trying to identify the planes, both in Stark's hanger and the hanger they drove to earlier in the episode. We have he obligatory P51 and a Corsair, what were the others?

The yellow flying wing on the right is the Northrop N-9M. It was a proof-of-concept for the flying wing bombers Northrop was developing. Recently restored, IIRC, it lives at the Planes of Fame museum in Chino, CA. To the left of the Corsair was a P-51B Mustang, the model before they had bubble canopies (That's the one Dottie landed on). If there was anything else, I'll need a screen grab to remember.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you want some fun, "Old Man Logan" is about Wolverine on a road trip checking out all the major players, set 40 years after an atomic world war and everything looks like a cross between Mad Max and Little House on the Prairie.

If you don't want fun, John Byrne tracked Superman and Batman for decades and then centuries in his several Generations projects. Clark Kent has to wear make up, and dye his hair silver so that Lois doesn't look like a paedophile.

 

[Sci]

Romanov was a child in Uncanny X-Men 268.

Marvel claims that Natasha and Scarlet share a birthday: November 22, 1984, even though Natasha claims to have worked for the KGB which shut it's doors in November 1991, which means that they were employing a tiny child to do something sketchy.

To be fair, the KGB's successor agency, the FSB, is basically the same agency with the same people. So one could either interpret the characters as referring to the FSB when they say "KGB," or interpret the MCU's FSB as retaining the name "KGB" post-Soviet dissolution.

I am intrigued by the fact that SHIELD, a nominally international agency, has had a historically antagonistic relationship with Russia in the MCU--not only going after KGB/FSB agents, but even to the point of launching air strikes on Russian-allied separatists in Eastern Europe (AoS "The Hub").

 

[Nerys Myk]

Romanov was a child in Uncanny X-Men 268.

Marvel claims that Natasha and Scarlet share a birthday: November 22, 1984, even though Natasha claims to have worked for the KGB which shut it's doors in November 1991, which means that they were employing a tiny child to do something sketchy.

To be fair, the KGB's successor agency, the FSB, is basically the same agency with the same people. So one could either interpret the characters as referring to the FSB when they say "KGB," or interpret the MCU's FSB as retaining the name "KGB" post-Soviet dissolution.

I am intrigued by the fact that SHIELD, a nominally international agency, has had a historically antagonistic relationship with Russia in the MCU--not only going after KGB/FSB agents, but even to the point of launching air strikes on Russian-allied separatists in Eastern Europe (AoS "The Hub").

The I is for "Intervention" not "International" these days. Frankly, the original acronymic meaning was the best.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Cinematic S.H.I.E.L.D. answered to the World Security Council before CM3 Winter Soldier.

Everyone Except Russia Security Council doesn't have the same ring to it, but it's unlikely that Russia did not have a seat at the Table.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I am intrigued by the fact that SHIELD, a nominally international agency, has had a historically antagonistic relationship with Russia in the MCU--not only going after KGB/FSB agents, but even to the point of launching air strikes on Russian-allied separatists in Eastern Europe (AoS "The Hub").

SHIELD's authority isn't global. In "Seeds", Coulson tells Ian Quinn that, "The first time your aircraft drifts over any country allied with SHIELD, we will shoot you out of the sky." Clearly, Russia isn't/wasn't allied.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But Hydra's Authority was secretly global before Winter Soldier, ipsofacto Hydra spent 60 years deciding where S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Authority would extend to, and end.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But Hydra's Authority was secretly global before Winter Soldier, ipsofacto Hydra spent 60 years deciding where S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Authority would extend to, and end.

So Hydra declared the USSR/Russia off limits?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

There's nothing in Winter Soldier to suggest Hydra flat out controlled SHIELD (in fact, if it did, it likely would fire the people not loyal to Hydra). Hydra corrupted SHIELD, there is a difference. On top of that, their goal was to ferment chaos to encourage the nations of the world to support their plans for Project Insight. Given this, I think it's likely SHIELD wasn't the only organization they infiltrated. They easily could have infiltrated Russian national security as well.

 

[theenglish]

There's nothing in Winter Soldier to suggest Hydra flat out controlled SHIELD (in fact, if it did, it likely would fire the people not loyal to Hydra). Hydra corrupted SHIELD, there is a difference. On top of that, their goal was to ferment chaos to encourage the nations of the world to support their plans for Project Insight. Given this, I think it's likely SHIELD wasn't the only organization they infiltrated. They easily could have infiltrated Russian national security as well.

This is what I got out of the movie too. They were basically double agents operating within the organization. In The Winter Soldier, SHIELD was shut down but that just means a lot of loyal agents lost their jobs or were transferred to other intelligence divisions.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If S.H.I.E.L.D. didn't have an overt opposing force of equal power, there there would be no escalation, arms race and constant strife, which after all was Hydra's goal, to create a world so dangerous and unstable that Americans (the world) would hand over all power/control to S.H.I.E.L.D. who is really Hydra.

Only fear can bring about complete submission?

Of course this is from the cinematic S.H.I.E.L.D. wiki.

SHIELD has a hierarchical command structure. The highest-ranking member of the organization is the Director, previously Nick Fury, now Phil Coulson.
Above the director was an international oversight council with representatives from the United States, United Kingdom, Russia, and China. The oversight board seemed to have a similar structure to the UN Security Council, with the afore-mentioned members having permanent seats, while other nations had rotating seats. Following the coup, SHIELD has no government sponsorship or oversight.

Russia had proportionate control over S.H.I.E.L.D. because of it's seat on the world Security Council, and because of the seat it was probably expected to contribute billions to an unspecified fund, but that seat also gave them the right to say "No S.H.I.E.L.D. inside our borders without express invitation". So while they can probably use S.H.I.E.L.D.to undertake missions towards the Russian good, S.H.I.E.L.D. has no authority to police on Russian soil.

Poorer, smaller, weaker countries obviously welcome defence by S.H.I.E.L.D. from aliens and local assholes, especially if it's funded in part by the Americans and the Russians, and they don't have to say "thank you" to the Americans or Russians like they're craven children, in fact if "they" (by they I could mean any one of 3/4s of the countries on the planet who are sick of being marginalized and looked over.) could waste trillions of American & Russian currency defending their borders, "they" would find that HILARIOUS.