Simon Pegg, Doug Jung To Write Star Trek 3

[fireproof78]

No, I'd agree the story was the big problem with STID.

BTW, it occurred to me recently, did they make the "suicide bomber" near the beginning mid-Asian looking to compensate for Khan not looking Indian at all?

Noel Clarke's character??

I don't think so

Yeah, no. Noel Clarke's character is seems to be more of a sympathetic character, to try and show how far Khan is willing to push people, and the leverage that can be used to motivate someone to do something terrible.

Personally, I don't think the problem is with the story, so much as the execution of it. The fact that Khan had to be shoehorned in as the villain was not the best choice, despite Cumberbatch's excellent performance. It would have resonated so much more to have Khan be the inspiration to create Harrison as the perfect soldier, only for that soldier to reject its genetic engineering and become a maniacal dictator.

The story could have been better, but I certainly don't hold it out as the worse part.

 

[JWPlatt]

...It would have resonated so much more to have Khan be the inspiration to create Harrison as the perfect soldier...

So I think you mean that Khan is not in the film at all except by name as inspiration to what would have truly been John Harrison.

That does echo the tendency of some films, such as a story about the Devil (in some form - e.g. The Exorcist where it was just a demon), to use one of his disciples instead of the "real" Devil. They, films, like to avoid omnipotence and just use a lieutenant instead so that the battle is actually winnable. But by the way, it's always seemed to me to be somewhat cowardly of writers when they avoid the big guy himself. So while it's attractive, I have a sense that if your scenario were the case, we would be here complaining that the writers didn't have the courage to just go with Khan himself. I would have liked The Exorcist just a little more if they had beaten the Devil himself. Sending in the second string was a little disappointing. It is for this reason that I really respect Quentin Tarantino for his courage to present an alternative history with Hitler himself in Inglourious Basterds - surely evil incarnate.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

No, I'd agree the story was the big problem with STID.

BTW, it occurred to me recently, did they make the "suicide bomber" near the beginning mid-Asian looking to compensate for Khan not looking Indian at all?

Noel Clarke's character??

I don't think so

Yeah, no. Noel Clarke's character is seems to be more of a sympathetic character, to try and show how far Khan is willing to push people, and the leverage that can be used to motivate someone to do something terrible.

Well I may be reaching a bit but I think Nerys Myk's point is that Harewood is definitely not "Asian looking".

 

[Nerys Myk]

Noel Clarke's character??

I don't think so

Yeah, no. Noel Clarke's character is seems to be more of a sympathetic character, to try and show how far Khan is willing to push people, and the leverage that can be used to motivate someone to do something terrible.

Well I may be reaching a bit but I think Nerys Myk's point is that Harewood is definitely not "Asian looking".

He said "mid-Asian" which I assumed meant the Middle East or Indian. Which to my eyes Noel Clarke doesn't look. But my post was referring to the "compensating casting" idea.

 

[Sindatur]

Noel Clarke's character??

I don't think so

Yeah, no. Noel Clarke's character is seems to be more of a sympathetic character, to try and show how far Khan is willing to push people, and the leverage that can be used to motivate someone to do something terrible.

Well I may be reaching a bit but I think Nerys Myk's point is that Harewood is definitely not "Asian looking".

Yea, that really had me scratching my head, how can anyone think Noel Clarke looks in any way Asian?

 

[fireproof78]

Noel Clarke's character??

I don't think so

Yeah, no. Noel Clarke's character is seems to be more of a sympathetic character, to try and show how far Khan is willing to push people, and the leverage that can be used to motivate someone to do something terrible.

Well I may be reaching a bit but I think Nerys Myk's point is that Harewood is definitely not "Asian looking".

Sorry, I should have been more clear (late night posting again). I don't think Clarke's casting was compensating because, as Nerys Myk's, pointed out, he doesn't look Asian.

My extension of that point was that his casting really didn't matter because he is supposed to be a sympathetic character, to highlight the evil of Khan.

 

[Malaika]

Does anyone find it weird that Orci stopped to comment over trekmovie? He did that right until the news about Simon Pegg and the other guy were released. Before that, he still posted and defended the new director and also tried to be positive and say he was still involved. After the latest news though he suddenly vanished and stopped to comment (him and Pegg seem to be friends so it's weird he didn't comment on him writing the way he had been supportive of the new director)
Don't wanna read too much into it but either he suddenly got wise and gets that engaging with the haters over trekmovie is a loss of time and not worth it, or this a sign that he is really out of the whole thing now..
I wonder what kind of movie paramounts wants to make if there really was a creative conflict with the person who wrote the first two and would likely follow the story and keep the characters baggage established in the first two movies. Paramount's problem couldn't be just the Shatner cameo (so say the the rumors)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Don't wanna read too much into it

Oh?

but either he suddenly got wise and gets that engaging with the haters over trekmovie is a loss of time and not worth it, or this a sign that he is really out of the whole thing now..

....or something else entirely.

rumors

Yeah.

 

[eyeresist]

^^ It would be mighty interesting to find out what this Orci idea was that the studio disliked so much. Maybe he wanted to bring back yet another old villain?

Yeah, no. Noel Clarke's character is seems to be more of a sympathetic character, to try and show how far Khan is willing to push people, and the leverage that can be used to motivate someone to do something terrible.

Well I may be reaching a bit but I think Nerys Myk's point is that Harewood is definitely not "Asian looking".

I didn't realise it was Noel Clarke. I just thought he had an "Indian" nose. Thankfully Nerys Myk understood my poorly-put point.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^^ It would be mighty interesting to find out what this Orci idea was that the studio disliked so much.

It would, and I expect we'll find out down the road, eventually.

 

[Malaika]

The fact that he suddenly stopped to comment begs the question why now, imo. Last time I checked he was saying that paramount was considering his second story..he was for the most part still positive about the movie ..then the news about the new writers broke and he vanished..did they reject the second story too?
'History' with his posting seems to suggest that his silence sometimes means he can't reply to questions or that his reply would be a no (like when people asked him if he still was one of the writers and then only much later he finally he admitted he was just producing)
I'm not saying that all the rumors about what happened behind the scenes are true. But I don't think that the current 'clues' make it so far fetched to think that maybe he really is out of the project now (for reasons we can't know) which, to be honest, concerns me. Maybe they are indeed using his second story but the point still stands that he unconventionally vanished.
So again I wonder about what were these creative differences b/w him and paramount. I'd love to think that his script sucked big time and paramount was having none of that and 'saved' the movie.. but I'm not sure it's that simple

^^ It would be mighty interesting to find out what this Orci idea was that the studio disliked so much. Maybe he wanted to bring back yet another old villain?

Some speculate that maybe the movie had even more nods to tos and the shatner's cameo was the last straw basically. Still, I find paramount's behavior a bit weird because they could have rejected everything many months ago. I find it hard to believe that the same man they trusted and hired for two movies couldn't give them anything that they could like. Unless, again, they want the last movie to be a completely different thing.
It's also possible that the script was more the work of the other two writers than his anyway.

 

[JWPlatt]

Sorry. Try as I might, I'm just not finding anything useful for discussion there. But I am expecting that ego ("that's why I make movies and you don't") will eventually come back to bite him in some moment of karma.

 

[Malaika]

Sorry. Try as I might, I'm just not finding anything useful for discussion there. But I am expecting that ego ("that's why I make movies and you don't") will eventually come back to bite him in some moment of karma.

He was right though and he's still making movies (and making money out of them) while they don't

 

[shapeshifter]

^^ It would be mighty interesting to find out what this Orci idea was that the studio disliked so much. Maybe he wanted to bring back yet another old villain?

Or he wanted an original character but Paramount wants someone familiar, again?

Remember he was the one pushing for originality in ID but got shouted down in favor of it being Khan.


I am hoping Orci's disappearance is a sign he's got something else with a Trek moniker in the works, ("bigger chairs to fill") but a condition of that is he must wait till ST'3' is in the history books - he's laying low waiting for his turn.[/unsubstantiated opinion\wishful thinking]

 

[Mudd]

Sorry. Try as I might, I'm just not finding anything useful for discussion there. But I am expecting that ego ("that's why I make movies and you don't") will eventually come back to bite him in some moment of karma.

He was right though and he's still making movies (and making money out of them) while they don't

Yep.

People have an odd idea of what "karma" is. Aside from which, the assumption that Orci's moment of frustration there rises anywhere near to a level of egotism that would stand out for an instant in his business is...unobservant.

Orci's done a lot of work that's entertained me. I wish him well and I hope he continues to be a decision-maker in some future Star Trek productions.

 

[Dales]

The fact that he suddenly stopped to comment begs the question why now, imo. Last time I checked he was saying that paramount was considering his second story..he was for the most part still positive about the movie ..then the news about the new writers broke and he vanished..did they reject the second story too?
'History' with his posting seems to suggest that his silence sometimes means he can't reply to questions or that his reply would be a no (like when people asked him if he still was one of the writers and then only much later he finally he admitted he was just producing)
I'm not saying that all the rumors about what happened behind the scenes are true. But I don't think that the current 'clues' make it so far fetched to think that maybe he really is out of the project now (for reasons we can't know) which, to be honest, concerns me. Maybe they are indeed using his second story but the point still stands that he unconventionally vanished.
So again I wonder about what were these creative differences b/w him and paramount. I'd love to think that his script sucked big time and paramount was having none of that and 'saved' the movie.. but I'm not sure it's that simple

^^ It would be mighty interesting to find out what this Orci idea was that the studio disliked so much. Maybe he wanted to bring back yet another old villain?

Some speculate that maybe the movie had even more nods to tos and the shatner's cameo was the last straw basically. Still, I find paramount's behavior a bit weird because they could have rejected everything many months ago. I find it hard to believe that the same man they trusted and hired for two movies couldn't give them anything that they could like. Unless, again, they want the last movie to be a completely different thing.
It's also possible that the script was more the work of the other two writers than his anyway.

I sincerely doubt it was more nod to TOS. After Star Trek Into darkness, there is enough nod to TOS in the film to last future trek films a lifetime.

Perhaps Paramount just got cold feet, Orci has not been on a great role lately with the failure of amazing Spiderman 2 and the falling ratings of sleepy hollows.

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry. Try as I might, I'm just not finding anything useful for discussion there. But I am expecting that ego ("that's why I make movies and you don't") will eventually come back to bite him in some moment of karma.

He was right though and he's still making movies (and making money out of them) while they don't

Yep.

People have an odd idea of what "karma" is. Aside from which, the assumption that Orci's moment of frustration there rises anywhere near to a level of egotism that would stand out for an instant in his business is...unobservant.

Orci's done a lot of work that's entertained me. I wish him well and I hope he continues to be a decision-maker in some future Star Trek productions.

Agreed. The arguments against him just make me go

I may not be entertained by all of his work (though most of it has been entertaining) but I hold no ill will towards him personally.

 

[JWPlatt]

I tend to trust and believe people more when they deserve respect but do not put their ego on display to demand it. I lose my faith when that happens.

I'm not singling out Orci. Lots of people have their words to come back to haunt them later. He just added to the potential. I don't think it was necessary to say it twice, especially after apologizing after the first time which I think he later rescinded somewhat.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I tend to trust and believe people more when they deserve respect but do not put their ego on display to demand it. I lose my faith when that happens.

I'm not singling out Orci. Lots of people have their words to come back to haunt them later. He just added to the potential. I don't think it was necessary to say it twice, especially after apologizing after the first time which I think he later rescinded somewhat.

To achieve continued success in the world of entertainment, one has to be ambitious and confident, while simultaneously indulging in the farcical dance of "I'm blessed, and I don't know how all this success happened, thank the Maker."

Orci made one simple mistake, he revealed he was human, and tired of ill-qualified people saying stupid things about work they could never accomplish.

 

[fireproof78]

I tend to trust and believe people more when they deserve respect but do not put their ego on display to demand it. I lose my faith when that happens.

I'm not singling out Orci. Lots of people have their words to come back to haunt them later. He just added to the potential. I don't think it was necessary to say it twice, especially after apologizing after the first time which I think he later rescinded somewhat.

To achieve continued success in the world of entertainment, one has to be ambitious and confident, while simultaneously indulging in the farcical dance of "I'm blessed, and I don't know how all this success happened, thank the Maker."

Orci made one simple mistake, he revealed he was human, and tired of ill-qualified people saying stupid things about work they could never accomplish.

Yeah, I'm not saying that what Orci said was the smartest of things to do, but that doesn't make me wish him ill. Part of the risk of any artistic endeavor is people not understanding your work or not appreciating it.