I didn't know this. Do you know which episode it was?
The Outcast
- Thread starter Taelon
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I didn't know this. Do you know which episode it was?
Well the way I see it. A franchise does necessarily have to include a gay character for me to like it and like borgboy I was drawn to Trek before I even knew I was gay. Of course it annoys me today that in four shows full of characters they couldn't have one homosexual one, but nothing is perfect.
And it's not like they ever displayed openly anti-gay behavior on the show either, not even on TOS.
"The Offspring" when Lal asks Guinan to explain love/attraction to her.
And it's not like they ever displayed openly anti-gay behavior on the show either, not even on TOS.
"The Offspring" when Lal asks Guinan to explain love/attraction to her.
They could have portrayed the character with a man, but there's also the aspect that character was leaning towards wanting to become more female which is why Riker was getting interested. Makes sense because Riker is not usually interested in men before that point.
I'd say there should be a gay bridge character by this point though, and it hasn't happened because of the focus on movies. JJ's trek could have thrown one in, but it understandably needed to focus on pre-established characters already. I believe if Trek was still on TV we would have one by now though, whether it would be a gay captain or bridge crew member.
I'd say there should be a gay bridge character by this point though, and it hasn't happened because of the focus on movies. JJ's trek could have thrown one in, but it understandably needed to focus on pre-established characters already. I believe if Trek was still on TV we would have one by now though, whether it would be a gay captain or bridge crew member.
I am not a STAR TREK Trivia Clearinghouse by any means, and I certainly was not there for anything that went on during the making of TNG, so all I can do is offer opinions - or something in evidence. BUT ... according to the tried, true & trustworthy Internet:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Outcast_(episode)
■ Rick Berman tried not to let perceptions of what the public would find acceptable "influence us too much" in the choice of Riker's opposite, adding "but having Riker engaged in passionate kisses with a male actor might have been a little unpalatable to viewers." (San Jose Mercury News, Grapevine, March 14, 1992) Nevertheless, Jonathan Frakes felt otherwise and would later criticize the decision to cast women in the roles of the J'naii, as a love affair apparently shared between two men would have made the statement of the episode stronger.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Outcast_(episode)
■ Rick Berman tried not to let perceptions of what the public would find acceptable "influence us too much" in the choice of Riker's opposite, adding "but having Riker engaged in passionate kisses with a male actor might have been a little unpalatable to viewers." (San Jose Mercury News, Grapevine, March 14, 1992) Nevertheless, Jonathan Frakes felt otherwise and would later criticize the decision to cast women in the roles of the J'naii, as a love affair apparently shared between two men would have made the statement of the episode stronger.
Berman's statement sounds like a bunch of doublespeak nonsense. If he chose not to cast a male actor because he thought the actor's "passionate kisses" with Frakes would be "unpalatable" to viewers, then he most certainly was letting his expectation of public perceptions influence his casting choice. I'd say you could argue that this influenced his casting choice completely.
Also Billy Crystal played a gay character in Soap. And Roseanne had multiple gay characters around the same time.
It would have been a little different for Riker because A) He is established as a straight character and B) TNG was pushing it as a moral issue with conservatives as intolerant brainwashing villains. It would have been far bolder to push homosexual issues in 1992 by putting a straight character in an (Implicitly) homosexual relationship than it would have been just to have a gay guy show up and say hi.
Kids In The Hall was actively pushing the issue around the same time, I suppose. But it wasn't an American show.
I don't think it's the responsibility of a television show to respond to the current cultural dialog, but it does seem odd that a show famous for responding to the current cultural dialog would leave out such a large part of it.
It would have been a little different for Riker because A) He is established as a straight character and B) TNG was pushing it as a moral issue with conservatives as intolerant brainwashing villains. It would have been far bolder to push homosexual issues in 1992 by putting a straight character in an (Implicitly) homosexual relationship than it would have been just to have a gay guy show up and say hi.
Kids In The Hall was actively pushing the issue around the same time, I suppose. But it wasn't an American show.
I don't think it's the responsibility of a television show to respond to the current cultural dialog, but it does seem odd that a show famous for responding to the current cultural dialog would leave out such a large part of it.
I agree with you, but that's how the audience would perceive it. It would have been a much more courageous statement than just having a character show up and say "Hi, I am gay", which is how most TV shows addressed it at the time.
Also technically, it is unlikely that although she identifies as female that she has female reproductive organs. So it would be a trans relationship, which would have been even more politically courageous at the time.
Gene admitted before he died that homosexuality made him uncomfortable and that he regretted that and the unfortunate jokes he and his friends made back in the day. Makes me wonder what it was like for him and David Gerrold (and Takei for that matter). Gene at least gave some parting lip service, but I'm convinced Berman was (is) an unrepentant homophobe. With all the discussion and support from fans and staff for gay characters and so many opportunities missed (Hawk, 7of9, more I'm sure I'm not aware of) there's really no other answer. Berman didn't like dynamic lighting, powerful sound tracks, or non hetero normative characters on his shows. It's as simple as that.
I've read an interview with Gerrold where he said the work environment on TNG's writing staff got to be really homophobic towards him, presumably after his gay inclusive script Blood and Fire was rejected, which led to him leaving TNG.
I think it's commendable that Gene at least was able to see the error of his ways, and from what I've read he wanted to bring a gay character on TNG but died before it could be done.
Berman at the least held up letting Trek progress on diversity if he wasn't full on homophobic. I'm reluctant to put that label on him, but it certainly could be perceived that way.
I think it's commendable that Gene at least was able to see the error of his ways, and from what I've read he wanted to bring a gay character on TNG but died before it could be done.
Berman at the least held up letting Trek progress on diversity if he wasn't full on homophobic. I'm reluctant to put that label on him, but it certainly could be perceived that way.
It's possible but that's not the effect it had on me. I found troubling that her sexuality could be "cured" so easily.
To be fair, daytime soap operas (despite what some people might think) tend to be on the cutting edge when it comes to confronting/depicting social problems and issues.
If the lack itself was deliberate (and not incidentally) then yes.
One of the defining characteristics of homophobia is aversion, aversion is a fixed desire to avoid or turn away from something or someone.
I just assumed as an alien race they had some kind of advanced brainwashing technology or something. They did need to alter Soran quickly to get the dramatic effect of seeing her after her conditioning.
If the lack itself was deliberate (and not incidentally) then yes.
One of the defining characteristics of homophobia is aversion, aversion is a fixed desire to avoid or turn away from something or someone.
I didn't say that; Ghrakh did.
I think the dramatic effect would have been better had she looked broken in the end, like someone who's suffered a big loss, instead of a happy clappy born again hermaphrodite, if you see what I mean.
To me it looks like they tried to cater to both sides, so that some people could say "See? even they think that abnormal sexuality can be cured through psychiatric/chemical treatment."
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