Massive clanger in Chapter 15, the Khitomer Accords were signed in 2293 not 2285. I really want to like this book but the continuity errors put me right off. David Mack, Dayton Ward, Christopher Bennett, Una McCormack et al don't make these mistakes. Try using Memory Alpha or Beta. Hell I've got a spare copy of the Star Trek Encyclopedia Miller can have
Spoilers TNG: Takedown by John Jackson Miller Review Thread
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Massive clanger in Chapter 15, the Khitomer Accords were signed in 2293 not 2285. I really want to like this book but the continuity errors put me right off. David Mack, Dayton Ward, Christopher Bennett, Una McCormack et al don't make these mistakes. Try using Memory Alpha or Beta. Hell I've got a spare copy of the Star Trek Encyclopedia Miller can have
Actually, these sort of mistakes have happened all the time, even in some novels written by the authors you have cited.
Really, the only major oddity for me was, indeed, that incorrect date for the Khitomer Conference (I don't know how that happened). On the whole, I cut authors new to writing Trek a lot of slack, especially since when writing in the novel 'verse they have to incorporate a whole lot more than just canonical information. I actually thought Takedown handled continuity details very well, often referencing events and developments in other novels in generally unobtrusive and "natural" ways. I assume Wolf 357 was a typo. There's room for improvement, but one or two errors among a generally well-considered effort to be consistent with other works isn't a problem for me.
Can these mistakes be fixed and a revised copy pushed to Kindle apps?
I love this community, don't get me wrong, but I'm a little disappointed that like half of this thread so far has been "this book has 4 incorrect numbers in it, I'M UPSET!"
Really?
Peter David accidentally skipped an entire year in New Frontier (later retconned with a comic); one of the Titan novels spent the entire book calling Dr. Cethente "Dr. Celenthe"; Kirsten Beyer's utterly phenomenal Children of the Storm posited a timeline completely incompatible with the prior book she wrote in the same series; Destiny and the Romulan War books got the attack on the Columbia a year off from each other; The Missing - just last month! - was about a year off on a date reference involving Brinkmanship...
and that's literally just off the top of my head.
I'm just saying - anyone perturbed by four minor numerical errors is looking for something different than I am in a story.
I thought this book was awesome and used continuity of characters and situations brilliantly. All the major TrekLit developments of the last few years were taken into account smoothly and seamlessly, not to mention that the dude came in writing Titan, Aventine, and Enterprise crews AND every Typhon Pact species all in his debut Trek novel and every character was perfectly voiced. Thing played out in my head with the clarity of a memorable TNG episode; I practically heard the music stings at the end of each chapter. Miller should absolutely be one of the multiple-series A team authors (like Mack or Bennett or Swallow or DRG3, etc) after this. A fine showing indeed.
Really?
Peter David accidentally skipped an entire year in New Frontier (later retconned with a comic); one of the Titan novels spent the entire book calling Dr. Cethente "Dr. Celenthe"; Kirsten Beyer's utterly phenomenal Children of the Storm posited a timeline completely incompatible with the prior book she wrote in the same series; Destiny and the Romulan War books got the attack on the Columbia a year off from each other; The Missing - just last month! - was about a year off on a date reference involving Brinkmanship...
and that's literally just off the top of my head.
I'm just saying - anyone perturbed by four minor numerical errors is looking for something different than I am in a story.
I thought this book was awesome and used continuity of characters and situations brilliantly. All the major TrekLit developments of the last few years were taken into account smoothly and seamlessly, not to mention that the dude came in writing Titan, Aventine, and Enterprise crews AND every Typhon Pact species all in his debut Trek novel and every character was perfectly voiced. Thing played out in my head with the clarity of a memorable TNG episode; I practically heard the music stings at the end of each chapter. Miller should absolutely be one of the multiple-series A team authors (like Mack or Bennett or Swallow or DRG3, etc) after this. A fine showing indeed.
Heh, well put, Thrawn.
Agreed - I thought this novel was solid but nothing special but I can't say I even noticed or care about any of these minor errors. Like his previous work it felt somewhat quirky in places - not completely in line with how other writers handle the Trek universe but it's nice to get a new voice.
The inconsistent characterisation that bothered me about his last book wasn't here so much other than the odd line here or there.
The inconsistent characterisation that bothered me about his last book wasn't here so much other than the odd line here or there.
I think I've come across as being a little over negative about this book. I actually like the story, although the tone is inconsistent with some the other recent novels. That being said thats not a bad thing, the last thing you want is writers churning out cookie cutter stories that are all the same. I have quite bad OCD so I find the continuity flaws jarring, I recognise that the other authors make them but they don't seem to do it as frequently. There was just lots of silly little niggles that could have been avoided e.g Counselor Hegol being referred to as Dr. Den, 1) Den is his first name and 2) he's never been referred to as a doctor in any previous story. I do realise I am being harsh on someone who's only on their second Trek story. Miller was/is one of the better Star Wars tie-in authors and as Disney have dumped the EU and restricted the new content being produced, he obviously need somewhere else to work. The tone of Takedown/Absent Enemies are very in keeping with his Star Wars work and I'm sure in time it will all come together.
Going off topic, I have been reading Star Trek books for over 25 years and followed the Trek Lit relaunch of TNG faithfully since 2007. My problem is the command crew of the Enterprise. With the exception of T'Lana (I think a great opportunity was missed with her, she really shook up the dynamic) and Jasminder Choudhury none of the new characters of have felt like Enterprise characters and todays rota of Chen, Dygan, Hegol and Smrhova feel like poor substitutes. The only crews for me thats feel like a TV crews are the senior staffs of the Aventine and Vanguard
Going off topic, I have been reading Star Trek books for over 25 years and followed the Trek Lit relaunch of TNG faithfully since 2007. My problem is the command crew of the Enterprise. With the exception of T'Lana (I think a great opportunity was missed with her, she really shook up the dynamic) and Jasminder Choudhury none of the new characters of have felt like Enterprise characters and todays rota of Chen, Dygan, Hegol and Smrhova feel like poor substitutes. The only crews for me thats feel like a TV crews are the senior staffs of the Aventine and Vanguard
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I too miss Choudhury. I suppose that it's better to miss a character who was killed off than to be indifferent to the loss; it means that their death resonates more successfully in the later books. I love Chen, though - always have - and I think she's genuinely shown development and growth since she was introduced while remaining the same essential character. One of the few new crew members to actually have an observable arc. Dygan I actually like because he's rather generic - I'm actually glad that McCormack and other authors chose to portray him as "a good, trusted officer who happens to be in the Union's uniform" rather than "problematic Cardassian". There's something very pleasing about having Dygan so unremarkable yet so integral.
Finally, I miss Kahohata, and I hope she comes back eventually...
Finally, I miss Kahohata, and I hope she comes back eventually...
In the model railroad hobby, there is a type of person called a "rivet counter." They probably exist in vehicle, aircraft, and military modeling as well, but particularly in model railroading. Rivet counters immerse themselves in minutiae, and nitpick about details most people can't even see without magnification.
Some of us seem to be rivet-counting this book.
****
By the time I got about a quarter of the way into this book, I knew that I'd end up either loving it or hating it: the latter, if it were to turn out that the entire story was some sort of holodeck training exercise.
There were any number of things I didn't see coming until they arrived.
Some of us seem to be rivet-counting this book.
****
By the time I got about a quarter of the way into this book, I knew that I'd end up either loving it or hating it: the latter, if it were to turn out that the entire story was some sort of holodeck training exercise.
There were any number of things I didn't see coming until they arrived.
The bos'n's whistles were a "Chekhov's Gun" that took me completely by surprise (in a way that Chekov's allergy in another recent opus didn't)
The Cytherians.
The Cytherians.
Outstanding. When's the next John Jackson Miller Trek novel due?
First of all, I enjoyed the tone of the novel. The situation presented another crisis, as Picard noted, and could've been another thriller. However, Miller kept the tone light, which I enjoyed greatly.
I enjoyed the various, seamlessly interwoven continuity bits just as well. It really felt like Aventine had an "off-screen" life beyond the books, and that the crew has been living and working together for years now. Bowers has mellowed a lot since he started as by-the-book XO in '81.
Due to the strong connection with a TNG episode in Miller's previous Trek outing, I suspected the aliens from "Allegiance" (the episode with the faux Bolian cadet) were behind the stratagem.
A page turner, really. We did not touch down on the surface of a single planet - unless we presume Kamemor spoke from Ki Baratan - did we?
As a starship aficionado, I'd also like to say thank you - we got a lot of ships and stations with names, prefixes, class designations... To quote Holo-Leeta, "Today must be your lucky day!" @ Memory Beta.
On a related note, mental eye-candy en masse! We got action for the Aventine, Enterprise and Titan, even fighting each other. I also really like the zero-body count. Happy Ending, indeed.
The characterizations felt spot-on to me, and Miller successfully turned the new characters into vivid personalities. The ending was satisfying, including Bretorius having the last laugh despite his own fate.
I wonder whether Yalok will be light on his XO?
First of all, I enjoyed the tone of the novel. The situation presented another crisis, as Picard noted, and could've been another thriller. However, Miller kept the tone light, which I enjoyed greatly.
I enjoyed the various, seamlessly interwoven continuity bits just as well. It really felt like Aventine had an "off-screen" life beyond the books, and that the crew has been living and working together for years now. Bowers has mellowed a lot since he started as by-the-book XO in '81.
Due to the strong connection with a TNG episode in Miller's previous Trek outing, I suspected the aliens from "Allegiance" (the episode with the faux Bolian cadet) were behind the stratagem.
A page turner, really. We did not touch down on the surface of a single planet - unless we presume Kamemor spoke from Ki Baratan - did we?
As a starship aficionado, I'd also like to say thank you - we got a lot of ships and stations with names, prefixes, class designations... To quote Holo-Leeta, "Today must be your lucky day!" @ Memory Beta.
On a related note, mental eye-candy en masse! We got action for the Aventine, Enterprise and Titan, even fighting each other. I also really like the zero-body count. Happy Ending, indeed.
The characterizations felt spot-on to me, and Miller successfully turned the new characters into vivid personalities. The ending was satisfying, including Bretorius having the last laugh despite his own fate.
I wonder whether Yalok will be light on his XO?
Well, as one of the people who did make a comment about a hiccup, actually having got to the end of the book now, I am in no way disappointed with it. I have read a couple of others by John Jackson Miller and will be picking up future novels
About a fifth through and do not know what to make of the story.
I love this book! It's such a tonic after the doom and gloom of The Fall & Typhon Pact series. Like a couple of others in this thread, I found the first part difficult to get into due to the actions and behaviour of a certain Admiral, but I'm so glad I stuck with it as the payoff was definitely worth it. This really did feel like Star Trek! Action, adventure, great story, engaging characters who worked together and strove for betterment, plenty of surprises, (seamless) referrals to previous stories, and no need for a diabolical arch scheme to destroy life as we know it. Brilliant! Along with Una McCormack's The Missing, Takedown is part of a great new beginning for what I hope will be an uplifting continuation of 24th century 'Trek. More please JJM!
I think that's by design
I don't characterize myself as "upset" about the minor errors in the novel. Just "annoyed". In fact, I rather agree that Takedown is brilliant.
Just finished it tonight, and liked it very much
I can see in the thread people picking on some continuity errors, like wrong date of the Khitomer Accords. Fortunately, I don't have all Trek dates memorised, so I didn't noticed nor cared
The only thing that disagreed with me was a suggestion that
But this super-minor detail was quickly forgotten among other yummy continuity cookies, playing on an episode, one-time race, and generally bringing something new to something old from the Trek universe.
And having a story with some guessing, mystery and unanswered questions is just what I like in any book, so I enjoyed it a lot.
I can see in the thread people picking on some continuity errors, like wrong date of the Khitomer Accords. Fortunately, I don't have all Trek dates memorised, so I didn't noticed nor cared
The only thing that disagreed with me was a suggestion that
Dr. Tarses could mind meld with Riker. How would a 1/4 Romulan, 3/4 human meld with anyone?
Sovak the Vulcan could easily replace him here.
Sovak the Vulcan could easily replace him here.
But this super-minor detail was quickly forgotten among other yummy continuity cookies, playing on an episode, one-time race, and generally bringing something new to something old from the Trek universe.
And having a story with some guessing, mystery and unanswered questions is just what I like in any book, so I enjoyed it a lot.
OMG, Bretorius was soooo pitiful. Even as a genius he was still a total moron 
OMG, Bretorius was soooo pitiful. Even as a genius he was still a total moron
I think that's the perfect summary, yes. I loved Bretorius. He struck me as being very much like a New Frontier character. Cut from the same cloth as some of the antagonistic nobles we meet from time to time in that series.
I have the lyrics to a song from a children's cartoon I watched when I was younger floating in my head. Bretorius would like them:
Yes, I'm a very important creature; tremendously brave and strong.
I find that I am frequently *right*, where others are often *wrong*.
Instead of arguing blindly, they should open their eyes and see
That the one who will bring them paradise, is the very important me.
I'm a fabulous fearsome flier, I handle life with finesse
When others say "no, it can't be so!", my answer is always "yes".
I was born to be their saviour, it is my destiny;
why do they despise, not recognise, the very important me?
Some of us were born to lead, while the rest of you must follow....
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